# What should be done in response to the White Power gesture being flashed on camera? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 15, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895 "2019-12-15T16:10:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/321 "2019-12-20T05:22:19Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > In all seriousness, I don’t see how we can possibly _stop_ them, unless we somehow stopped them from communicating, appearing in pictures, or did something unsavory to their OK-symbol-making appendages. > > It’d be like trying to stop slang. No, YOU are letting them take it over. Hey, what would happen if we just ignored those assholes who really are making it a white power thing? No pearl clutching, no seeing who has the best SJW credentials, who can manufacture the mots outrage. Just fucking ignore their use of the Ok sign? They would stop. See? You are being trolled, and your response to being trolled is to buy Purina troll chow by the truckload, rather than DNFTT. _You_ have the power to stop them, and instead you are encouraging them. And again, I ask, \*\*why do you want to ruin the lives of those young cadets? \*\*How does ruing their lives gratify yours? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/322 "2019-12-20T05:29:23Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > … > Thank you. I’m glad you can accept that it’s not a 4chan hoax that white supremacists flash the OK sign to signal their beliefs. … > > I am beginning to come round to the view that the bozos at the Army-Navy game were more likely than not playing the circle game. I still hold that it’s not unreasonable to raise the question and to expect the leadership to look into it (which they are). … > > I can’t speak for anyone else but I don’t think I’ve jumped to conclusions. I’ve consistently said it needs to be investigated, and I’ve only gotten pissed when I’ve been accused of “pearl clutching” or being gulled by 4chan. At least we agree that white supremacists using the OK sign is a real thing and that there is at least ambiguity around its use in other contexts. … It can be both, and \*is \*both. It is a 4Chan hoax that you and the racists have been gulled by. By "raise the question and to expect the leadership to look into it " and “needs to be investigated” you mean ruin the lives and careers of those young cadets. Because that is what will happen. I dunno if they will be Court Martialed but I can tell you that in general, any time a Officer is brought into that court- his career is ruined, if if totally exonerated. They arent secret closet racists. They are young men goofing around. Nothing needed to be “investigated”. And when you demand such investigations, you are feeding the white power and 4chan trolls, who are giggling happily in their caves. They want and enjoy this sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/323 "2019-12-20T07:14:43Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Thank you. I’m glad you can accept that it’s not a 4chan hoax that white supremacists flash the OK sign to signal their beliefs. I’ve lost track of where you were on that question at the beginning of this thread, but I’m glad you’re dealing with the same reality as most of the rest of us are. Yea, it’s difficult to keep track of each others’ position in a thread discussing such a nuanced topic like this. I’ve tried to state from the start that I do believe white supremacists have adopted the “okay” symbol, but that this particular incident at West Point just isn’t about WP and isn’t even an “okay” gesture to begin with. > [@](#): > > Again, fair enough. I haven’t found a clear-cut case yet. There were [the cops in Jasper, Alabama last year who did fingers-down circle gestures on camera after a drug bust](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/397509-alabama-police-officers-suspended-for-making-hand-gesture). They were suspended, but it’s not clear to me that they were established to have been signaling white power beliefs. But seeing as how it’s a bunch of white cops in their paramilitary garb, standing around a shack after a bust, I’m skittish about this one. I remember that incident. Without getting too far into it, I’ll just say that police units and military units share a lot of the same mentality. A lot of Facebook groups catering to guns or tactical equipment or merchandise targeted to veteran/law-enforcement, etc. They are all full of Circle Game memes and people taking stupid pictures exactly like the one of those SWAT guys. It’s ubiquitous! And none of the comments are, “Hell yea, White Power!” or anything like that. There is the occasional “Hey, that’s racist now!”, but for the most part, all of the comments revolve (no pun intended) around the Circle Game. So when I see a picture like that, based on my experience, I immediately just see the stupid circle game unless there is evidence to suggest otherwise. It would be racist to suggest that being an all white SWAT Team counts as evidence. I don’t think any WP enthusiasts have adopted that particular gesture at all. If they have, they are very ineffective at signaling, since even other white nationalists viewing the photo can’t even be sure of the intent. It’s not effective to use such a commonly used gesture to secretly signal your White Supremacist ideals. Nobody is going to know that’s what your’re communicating. Secret gestures like that only work if they are discreet and unambiguous. Otherwise, what’s the point. Overt, proudly raised “okay” gestures on the other hand? Those have certainly been adopted by some white supremacists, and I can see how they might enjoy the fact that the gesture makes kind of a W and P with the fingers and wrist. So, what started as a hoax _has_ been adopted, at least by _some_ neo-nazi types. But the important distinction is that, since we’re talking about two different gestures, proof of adopting one of them doesn’t equate to the other. > [@](#): > > I am beginning to come round to the view that the bozos at the Army-Navy game were more likely than not playing the circle game. I still hold that it’s not unreasonable to raise the question and to expect the leadership to look into it (which they are). An investigation is absolutely reasonable. Regardless of intent, cadets should not be flashing any kind of ambiguous hand gestures. Another hand gesture that had nothing to do with a game, _or_ WP, was the WEST SIDE gesture. Are you familiar with this? Lot’s of people just flash the WEST SIDE gang signal in pictures. Stupid. There was a time when that was as popular in pictures as “bunny ears”. And there are tons of incidents where soldiers are just ironically flashing the gesture in pictures. Whenever such an incident gets brought up to the chain of command, it gets investigated. That’s not unreasonable. After all, we have a zero tolerance policy. > [@](#): > > But if one of the criteria of the circle game is that the hand is held below the waist, I would point out that none of the gestures caught on camera at the game were below the waist of the person doing it. This is kind of explained by your next sentence: > [@](#): > > On the contrary, they had to extend their arms into the frame of the camera. It was an impromptu act. He was caught in the moment of being on the camera and thought it would be cute to get everyone while on camera. He was just trying to awkwardly get it in there, into frame. Even when played off-camera in the real world people often do it above the waist for whatever reason. Especially when it’s done spur-of-the-moment. Of course, everyone then gives them shit about it and says, “That doesn’t count!”. But of course… whether it “counts” or not doesn’t really matter. Nobody’s keeping score. > [@](#): > > So, while I am leaning toward the “circle game” explanation, I don’t think it’s the slam-dunk case some in this thread are arguing it is. There’s always the possibility. All things considered, though, _this particular_ incident just screams stupid “Circle Game”. I think a 15-6 investigation that thoroughly explores the WP possibility is appropriate, but unless it turns up something, I’m convinced this is just cadets getting carried away with a juvenile game. There have been at least a half dozen incidents I can think of where some soldier is caught sneaking a Circle Game gesture into an official unit photo. People get rightly pissed off, and there is usually a quick investigation and some sort of non-judicial punishment for it. But not because it expresses belief in an extremist ideology, but rather because it’s immature and unprofessional to do that on camera where everyone will see it. But, the risk is part of the “fun”, I guess. > [@](#): > > I can’t speak for anyone else but I don’t think I’ve jumped to conclusions. I’ve consistently said it needs to be investigated, and I’ve only gotten pissed when I’ve been accused of “pearl clutching” or being gulled by 4chan. At least we agree that white supremacists using the OK sign is a real thing and that there is at least ambiguity around its use in other contexts. We agree. > [@](#): > > And from your previous posts I know you agree that we don’t want white supremacists in the military. So… that leaves us in the same place, I think. The two institutions need to investigate this rather than just shrugging it off as an obvious example of the circle game. Oh, we completely agree. I want it investigated, and it would be a dereliction of duty for the investigating officer to not explore the possibility of a WP intent. But just like anything else that happens, we start discussing it among ourselves here and give our best guess at what happened and what we think the investigation will turn up. All my money is betting on “Circle Game”. This one seems cut and dry to me. That doesn’t mean I think it shouldn’t be investigated, though. I’m just sharing my experience and trying to provide some primary sourced data that supports my conclusion. Trying to let everyone know that this one very likely isn’t something to get upset about. Unlike some other events in the news where there is good reason to get upset even while the investigation is still on going, and even before all the facts are in, there is obvious reason to get upset. For this particular incident, I think everyone can relax. > [@](#): > > Fair? Quite. I think we’re pretty much on the same page. ---
**Author:** ![RedSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/67e7ee/32.png) [@RedSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/324 "2019-12-20T10:21:23Z")
> [@pool](#): > > You really think the Swastika that was on Nazi uniforms is equivalent to a hand gesture that basically just involves touching the index finger to the thumb and is used in a game so people look at your dick, are you really sure these two things are comparable, if you are I’m afraid no one can help you. It’s somewhat obscure however the hand gesture is apparently associated with the Black Sun symbol from the SS Generals Hall in Nazi Germany. If your making symbol handcuffed after murdering a group of people in a New Zealand mosque I get the context. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/325 "2019-12-20T13:42:31Z")
> [@Defensive Indifference](#): > > There were [the cops in Jasper, Alabama last year who did fingers-down circle gestures on camera after a drug bust](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/397509-alabama-police-officers-suspended-for-making-hand-gesture). They were suspended, but it’s not clear to me that they were established to have been signaling white power beliefs. But seeing as how it’s a bunch of white cops in their paramilitary garb, standing around a shack after a bust, I’m skittish about this one. I went and looked into this incident further. [It turns out, they were never suspended.](https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmatter/news/chief-says-circle-game-cops-not-suspended-then-doubles-down-on-discipline-JumLOjC0Pk-K7jKZPK77MQ) The department looked into it and determined there was no WP message behind the gesture. > [@From the Linked Article](#): > > The officers were actually following a viral trend known as the “circle game” where the goal is to make somebody look at your hand making the OK sign below waist level… > > “That’s contradictory to how we run our city. That’s not our mindset. That’s not the way we do things and they used poor judgement,” the mayor said… > > The four officers, who are members of the department’s now-sidelined Critical Incident Response Team, have received letters specifying the allegations against them… The complaints included behavior unbecoming that of a police officer and dereliction of duty… > > If an investigation determines that punishment is warranted, Chief Poe will determine what sanctions are appropriate… None of the violations are punishable by firing… I find the Police Chief’s statement about the incident to be appropriate and similar to what will come of the West Point incident. > [@](#): > > Chief Poe noted that he did not believe the officers were intentionally projecting a racist message by making the hand gestures, but also did not find their conduct to be appropriate… ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/326 "2019-12-20T16:50:13Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > If you can’t be bothered enough to differentiate yourself from a white supremacist then why the hell should anyone be bothered enough to fully investigate your intentions and judge you accordingly? Why shouldn’t we just label you according to your actions and simply move on with our lives? There is a thing you might wish to read up on, called the Presumption of Innocence. It’s a _good_ thing, one that could save your ass someday. Instead of trying to tear it down, maybe you should try expanding its reach beyond the scope of criminal justice. ---
**Author:** ![Sirreal72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Sirreal72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sirreal72)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/327 "2019-12-20T17:25:51Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Yes, that’s the only reasonable response. > > However, that doesn’t change the fact you’re now potentially evidence of someone’s political leanings. If someone has a lot of Taylor Swift pictures, it might mean something bad. It might mean something innocuous, too, but that doesn’t change the fact it is potentially evidence. It’s impossible to completely cleanse it now, like how it’s impossible to cleanse being into population genetics or being Christian. > > The only question is how strong the evidence is. Correlation without context is no evidence of ideology, just as it does not indicate causation. To use your example, a person can identify as Christian and not identify with the ideology of a certain sect, or be accepted by that sect as a “real” Christian. I believe the issue at the root to all of these arguments is that some people resist the idea of individuals being forced into groups while others believe that group cohesion relies on consensus. There is strength in simplicity, and nothing is more simple than having a binary world-view; “You are either with me, or you are against me.” More complex thinking offers more variety and individualism, but it makes collaborative efforts harder. Politicians know this, that is why they all take"It’s US versus THEM" positions. It is also why Democracy is in danger when politics trains the citizens to refuse to recognize opposing ideas as having any validity. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/328 "2019-12-20T18:22:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I am not attacking anyone who says it \*can \*be a racist symbol, that’s obvious. That is not only not obvious, it is transparently untrue. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/329 "2019-12-20T18:26:38Z")
> [@El\_DeLuxo](#): > > There is a thing you might wish to read up on, called the Presumption of Innocence. There is a thing you might wish to read up on, called Occam’s Razor. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/330 "2019-12-20T18:56:31Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I went and looked into this incident further. [It turns out, they were never suspended.](https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmatter/news/chief-says-circle-game-cops-not-suspended-then-doubles-down-on-discipline-JumLOjC0Pk-K7jKZPK77MQ) The department looked into it and determined there was no WP message behind the gesture. > > I find the Police Chief’s statement about the incident to be appropriate and similar to what will come of the West Point incident. Thanks for digging that up. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/331 "2019-12-20T19:15:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, YOU are letting them take it over. > > Hey, what would happen if we just ignored those assholes who really are making it a white power thing? No pearl clutching, no seeing who has the best SJW credentials, who can manufacture the mots outrage. Just fucking ignore their use of the Ok sign? They would stop. See? This is sort of like saying that if people had ignored the Nazis they would have stopped using the swastika and the Bellamy salute. I don’t believe that the whole reason that the racists use symbols is to trigger liberals. I believe that they are proudly announcing their allegiance to the burgeoning movement. Remember, the whole reason that racists are rising now is because they believe that they have support. Presidential support, sure, but also peers. The internet is GREAT for subcultures, because it allows disparate loners to find likeminded people, which allows them to conclude that they’re not weirdo losers - rather, they’re just part of one group rather than another. This phenomenon is why nobody’s ashamed of being a geek anymore, and it’s also why the racists and MRAs and crawling out of their holes too. Once you have a group, it’s time to start identifying yourself to others of that group. The goal is to demonstrate to each other that you’re not alone, that you have solidarity. T-shirts are good for this. So are hand signs - the vulcan ‘live long and prosper’ gesture comes to mind. Hippies co-opted the ‘V’ sign, using it as their peace sign. These examples demonstrate the use of a gesture to show your own allegiance, to announce your position and support for the cause. So what makes racists co-opting the OK sign different? You seem to be of the opinion that the ONLY reason they are doing it is to trigger people, in defiance of how symbols have been used from the dawn of time. Now admittedly, a lot of what conservatives do is done solely to piss off liberals and for no other reason, but not _everything_ they do is shallow malice. Some of it is grounded malice. Hard to believe, but conservatives actually _do_ care about some things: guns and abortion, for example. And racism. A bunch of people really genuinely are racist, and aren’t faking it at all. When bastards like that announce their racism, it’s not _just_ to trigger the libs - it’s to publicly announce their position, to take a public stand. And to be able to publicly take a stand about _being a racist_ and get away with it must be really empowering - it tells you that you’re winning, that you’re taking back ground against the people who’ve been stifling you and telling you not to murder those filthy n\*\*\*\*\*s for generations! So yeah, let’s just let 'em do their hand signs, post their Pepes, wave their flags, and burn their crosses, all without even making comment. Let’s just slink away and leave them to their devices. They’re just nazis, after all. And when has a nazi ever done anything bad? > [@DrDeth](#): > > You are being trolled, and your response to being trolled is to buy Purina troll chow by the truckload, rather than DNFTT. > > _You_ have the power to stop them, and instead you are encouraging them. Ignoring them will make them go away, eh? Just like it worked back in the thirties? > [@DrDeth](#): > > And again, I ask, \*\*why do you want to ruin the lives of those young cadets? \*\*How does ruing their lives gratify yours? It doesn’t gratify me at all. But actions, even stupid actions, have consequences. If getting this kind of attention from your military superiors can ruin your lives, maybe they shouldn’t have been caught making hand signs that look like the OK sign while it’s gaining infamy for being racist. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/332 "2019-12-20T19:28:03Z")
Well, as it turns out, those cadets were simply playing the circle game: [Two Naval Academy midshipmen who made a hand gesture associated with white nationalists while standing in the background of a TV segment during the annual Army-Navy football game were playing a “sophomoric game” and were not flashing racist gestures, according to a Navy probe into the incident released Friday.](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/12/20/naval-academy-hand-gestures-sophomoric-game/) I’m shocked! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/333 "2019-12-20T19:55:32Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, as it turns out, those cadets were simply playing the circle game: > > [Two Naval Academy midshipmen who made a hand gesture associated with white nationalists while standing in the background of a TV segment during the annual Army-Navy football game were playing a “sophomoric game” and were not flashing racist gestures, according to a Navy probe into the incident released Friday.](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/12/20/naval-academy-hand-gestures-sophomoric-game/) > > I’m shocked! Good for them. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/334 "2019-12-20T20:23:02Z")
In case **BigT** would like to consider further evidence: > [@From Navy Times](#): > > Other “variations on the game” include photobombing a photograph while displaying the gesture, according to the investigation. Or perhaps he will choose to “not believe” _them_ as well. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/335 "2019-12-20T20:45:09Z")
[_Navy Times_ article](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/12/20/naval-academy-hand-gestures-sophomoric-game/). (eta ninja’d, I see) ---
**Author:** ![justanothermike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@justanothermike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanothermike)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/336 "2019-12-20T21:25:25Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, as it turns out, those cadets were simply playing the circle game: > > [Two Naval Academy midshipmen who made a hand gesture associated with white nationalists while standing in the background of a TV segment during the annual Army-Navy football game were playing a “sophomoric game” and were not flashing racist gestures, according to a Navy probe into the incident released Friday.](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/12/20/naval-academy-hand-gestures-sophomoric-game/) > > I’m shocked! “Well, as it turns out, those WHITE SUPREMACIST cadets were simply playing the circle game”, right? I mean, they have to be in order to use that symbol. I learned that here from these posts. There is apparently no other option. None. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/337 "2019-12-20T22:32:21Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > These are OKAY signs, though. Not “circle game” gestures. It is a completely different gesture. > > I find this guy’s gesture the most curious. This _is_ a circle game gesture. It is not an “okay” gesture. I think it’s possible he was playing the circle game, and in fact, most people I know figured that’s exactly what he was doing. Back when I saw it in March, that was my first thought as well. But now, I’m not so sure. Regardless, whether his intent with that gesture was “got you, fuckers! haw haw” or was “White Power” it doesn’t change the fact that he is definitely an alt-right, white supremacist. That fact is indisputable. Whether white supremacists are using the “OK” symbol or the “circle game” symbol to denote solidarity with each other sure seems like a distinction without a difference. > [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, as it turns out, those cadets were simply playing the circle game: > > [Two Naval Academy midshipmen who made a hand gesture associated with white nationalists while standing in the background of a TV segment during the annual Army-Navy football game were playing a “sophomoric game” and were not flashing racist gestures, according to a Navy probe into the incident released Friday.](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/12/20/naval-academy-hand-gestures-sophomoric-game/) > > I’m shocked! Yes, and “devil’s triangle” is a drinking game. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/338 "2019-12-20T22:38:16Z")
It sounds like they did a thorough investigation, including a background check and interviewing a bunch of people. I’m glad they took it seriously and glad it turned out to be nothing. At least for my part I learned a lot from this fiasco. I underestimated the prevalence of the circle game (it was done, but not that often, in my college days, and I never considered that adults were doing it in any numbers), and I failed to discriminate (ha!) between the game and the OK gesture, which white supremacists **have** coopted. I have a more nuanced view than I did a few days ago. Thanks for your posts, **Bear\_Nenno** ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/339 "2019-12-20T22:44:43Z")
I have extreme doubts that white supremacists are morally opposed to pointing their OK gestures sideways or even downwards if the situation requires it. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/340 "2019-12-20T23:18:39Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, as it turns out, those cadets were simply playing the circle game: > > [Two Naval Academy midshipmen who made a hand gesture associated with white nationalists while standing in the background of a TV segment during the annual Army-Navy football game were playing a “sophomoric game” and were not flashing racist gestures, according to a Navy probe into the incident released Friday.](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/12/20/naval-academy-hand-gestures-sophomoric-game/) > > I’m shocked! If you believe them, and for page after page you’ve made it clear that there’s no way to convince you that they weren’t; they were playing a childish game in a setting which resulting in the service academy being embarrassed by their behavior. Behavior that I would be embarrassed by in a middle school child, much less a midshipman in the Naval Academy. I’d expel them without a second thought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895.md?page=18)