# What should be done in response to the White Power gesture being flashed on camera? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 15, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895 "2019-12-15T16:10:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/41 "2019-12-15T20:04:12Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > That’s how language and symbols work. I’m not going to hang a swastika over my door and claim it’s a good luck symbol despite people’s misperception of it. That’s great. But are you going to expect or demand that Hindus, Jains and Sri Lankan Buddhists stop using the swastika because of people’s potential misperceptions?? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/42 "2019-12-15T20:05:23Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Yea… I said the _military_. Just to be clear, you’re saying the Navy is not the military, as a kind of an insult, right? I want to be sure I respond appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/43 "2019-12-15T20:09:45Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > That’s how language and symbols work. I’m not going to hang a swastika over my door and claim it’s a good luck symbol despite people’s misperception of it. Does the majority of the culture view it as a white supremacist symbol, or just a few thousand twitter warriors and bots, that’s not what drives changes to language and symbols. I mean maybe if the KKK played the circle game you would have a point. You really think the Swastika that was on Nazi uniforms is equivalent to a hand gesture that basically just involves touching the index finger to the thumb and is used in a game so people look at your dick, are you really sure these two things are comparable, if you are I’m afraid no one can help you. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/44 "2019-12-15T20:12:46Z")
There’s a saying that goes “play stupid games, win stupid prizes.” Perhaps it’s as simple as that. But there is still the matter of the stupid prize, yet to be awarded. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/45 "2019-12-15T20:13:57Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Just to be clear, you’re saying the Navy is not the military, as a kind of an insult, right? I want to be sure I respond appropriately. Just to be clear, it’s “a kind of an insult” toward the Navy as an organization, and not to you as a poster or person. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/46 "2019-12-15T20:15:20Z")
I appreciate you saying that. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/47 "2019-12-15T20:17:12Z")
Since the adoption of the symbol by racists predates the 4chan “hoax”, isn’t it more accurate to say 4chan got fooled into popularizing a relatively new and little known racist symbol? The trollers got trolled, as it were. > **[Is that an OK sign? A white power symbol? Or just a right-wing troll?](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/18/ok-sign-white-power-symbol-or-just-right-wing-troll)** > > From its adoption first by white nationalists, and then by 4chan trolls intent on ‘triggering the libs,’ the well-known hand signal’s use points to deeper concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/48 "2019-12-15T20:18:40Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > That’s great. But are you going to expect or demand that Hindus, Jains and Sri Lankan Buddhists stop using the swastika because of people’s potential misperceptions?? Do you understand that words and symbols have a cultural context that is a critical part of understanding their meaning? > [@pool](#): > > You really think the Swastika that was on Nazi uniforms is equivalent to a hand gesture that basically just involves touching the index finger to the thumb and is used in a game so people look at your dick, are you really sure these two things are comparable, if you are I’m afraid no one can help you. I’m pretty sure you know I’m not saying they’re equivalent. I think you probably understand that I’m pointing out a clear and well-accepted example of a symbol’s meaning changing over time to illustrate the point. Right? You get that, right? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/49 "2019-12-15T20:20:34Z")
> [@justanothermike](#): > > You know that he was seeking to offend? He wasn’t playing the circle game? Who was he playing the circle game with? Who does he get to punch, the cameraman or the viewers at home? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/50 "2019-12-15T20:27:10Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Would you be in favor of punishing people who troll like this? I just looked at the clip. It’s cadets in uniform doing this. Although there is deniability (to me) that the gesture means white power in any criminal sense, it’s conduct unbecoming an officer to pull anything even remotely resembling edgelord bullshit like this, in uniform, in the public eye, on camera. It’s inappropriate for officers or officers in cadets in uniform to behave in any political way, or to engage in juvenile trolling. I don’t know what I’d do about HS students or private citizens who pulled this bullshit, but these cadets disgraced their academy and their uniform, and if I were their commandant, I would expel them. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/51 "2019-12-15T20:30:06Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Do you understand that words and symbols have a cultural context that is a critical part of understanding their meaning? Yes. Which is why I’m trying to explain the military culture to you, but you refuse to listen. They’re playing a stupid game. It has zero to do with white supremacy. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/52 "2019-12-15T20:54:34Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Yes. Which is why I’m trying to explain the military culture to you, but you refuse to listen. They’re playing a stupid game. It has zero to do with white supremacy. Your example was from 2013. The white supremacy association is relatively recent. I have no way of knowing what’s going on in these guys heads, but I would think 2019 adolescents in college, military or otherwise, would be cognizant of how the symbol has changed. Also I would argue that the circle game is not military culture as much as adolescent male culture. I played the circle game in undergrad like a lot of 20 year olds with too much time on my hands. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/53 "2019-12-15T20:56:48Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Looks basically like the same thing as the circle game, obviously not to hit but it’s a way to draw the viewer’s eyes away from the guy being filmed and direct attention to themselves. Seriously young guys in a military academy they prob do dumb shit like that all the time. I know when I was in AIT in the Army we did. The military has a well-known and pervasive white supremacy problem. No one can play dumb about it today. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/54 "2019-12-15T21:12:56Z")
This thread is why Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/55 "2019-12-15T21:24:08Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > This thread is why Donald Trump. We have Donald Trump because people love stupid games more than they love this country. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/56 "2019-12-15T21:34:16Z")
I don’t know what the intent of the cadets was. I’m reasonably certain they had to know the circle game, childish as it is, is also a white supremacy symbol and either didn’t care or thought, like some posters on this thread, that the people who interpret it that way are overly sensitive. I don’t think those students should be expelled, but I think both the USMA and the USNA should incorporate a ban on this at public events in their code of conduct, regardless of what the intent was, precisely because they _are_ the military. If people have a beef, take it up with the white supremacists and 4chan for mucking up this stupid game, not those who point out that the game has become mucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/57 "2019-12-15T22:01:36Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Ya know what? I actually still have the picture. The NIM took it down, but I actually saved it. I was probably off a little on the date, the meta data says 2013. I’m going to go ahead and post this thing. None of the names are visible, and it demonstrates the point I’m making. > > [Stupid-Drill-Sergeant hosted at ImgBB — ImgBB](https://ibb.co/sKjL1pD) > > Notice the Drill Sergeant in the front row, second from the left. This was at least 6-7 years ago. It’s an immature game, that runs rampant across the military. It isn’t about racism. I think you mean 2nd from the right? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/58 "2019-12-15T22:05:59Z")
Donald Trump flashes the OK symbol frequently in his rallies. I watched one of them on TV several weeks ago and it really leaps out at ya. I dunno if he’s doing it intentionally or just a habit… ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/59 "2019-12-15T22:12:45Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Yes. Which is why I’m trying to explain the military culture to you, but you refuse to listen. They’re playing a stupid game. It has zero to do with white supremacy. Why are you sure? I mean, we do have people in the military who thing that black people are apes, that they ought to be sterilized or driven out of the country or whatever the current end game is for White Supremacists. Like, these people exist. Some of these people are in the military. Why are you so sure that these kids are doing this for the same reason you would be doing it? I am really asking this. I don’t think you should be sure. We are living in a country where there’s a small but real minority that thinks black people are not really human, not really citizens. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/60 "2019-12-15T22:28:34Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Donald Trump flashes the OK symbol frequently in his rallies. I watched one of them on TV several weeks ago and it really leaps out at ya. I dunno if he’s doing it intentionally or just a habit… Honestly, I expect more out of West Point cadets and Annapolis midshipmen than I do out of Donald Trump. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895.md?page=4)