# What should be done in response to the White Power gesture being flashed on camera? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 15, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895 "2019-12-15T16:10:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/121 "2019-12-16T22:25:10Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > So, the fault here lies with the offended, not those seeking to offend? When it’s a symbol that’s been used for years and hasn’t meant anything offensive until now? Yes. If you’re getting offended with it, you’re giving those who originally gave it a bad meaning power over you. If anything, EVERYONE should use it all the time. It’ll become entirely meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/122 "2019-12-16T22:32:35Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Because variants of the OK sign – including one with the fingers pointed down and one with the forefinger bent inward against the thumb – have been appropriated by white supremacists. Have you missed that part of the national conversation over the past couple years? > > ETA: In response to **pool** It only started getting infamous THIS YEAR. I never heard of it till maybe 6 months ago. I think it’s reasonable to not expect everyone to be so up-to-date on their What’s Currently Offensive list. Me, I don’t give two shits about what some nameless shmuck decided is offensive. If I want to use the OK sign the way the OK sign has been used for (as someone else said) 200 years? I’ll use it. Reappropriate that shit. You don’t just get to decide that a symbol means whatever you want it to mean, and now everyone else needs to find it offensive too or they’re terrorists :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/123 "2019-12-16T22:37:49Z")
> [@Kovitlac](#): > > When it’s a symbol that’s been used for years and hasn’t meant anything offensive until now? Yes. If you’re getting offended with it, you’re giving those who originally gave it a bad meaning power over you. > > If anything, EVERYONE should use it all the time. It’ll become entirely meaningless. Please don’t take offense when someone calls you a Proud Boy, then. After all, don’t get offended. You’re just allowing those people power over you. ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/124 "2019-12-16T22:42:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > When the bad meaning has become understood. > > When did it become valid to assume that display of a swastika was meant with bad intent? I’ve spontaneously decided that the peace sign now means you support human trafficking. You better not use it, or you’ll offend my delicate sensitivities. Also, you’re a terrorist. See how stupid that sounds? Ignore it when people try to assign shitty intent to something that never had it. It’s too late to do that with the swastika - all of us grew up in the following eras, and for most of us, that’s the only association we’ve ever personally had with that symbol. This is different. It’s only THIS YEAR that the circle symbol has become ‘infamous’ in a more wide-spread way. There’s plenty of time to disassociate it from white supremacy. People don’t just get to decide that certain symbols are bad, and now everyone has to abide by it or else. Honestly, I encourage more people to use the sign as it’s intended - OK. If virtually everyone is using it, it can’t possibly mean white supremacy to very many people. ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/125 "2019-12-16T22:43:30Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Please don’t take offense when someone calls you a Proud Boy, then. > > After all, don’t get offended. You’re just allowing those people power over you. I wouldn’t be offended, because it makes zero sense. Why would anyone be calling me a boy? And honestly, people can call me whatever they want. They’re words with zero importance attached. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/126 "2019-12-16T23:26:14Z")
> [@Kovitlac](#): > > I’ve spontaneously decided that the peace sign now means you support human trafficking. You better not use it, or you’ll offend my delicate sensitivities. Also, you’re a terrorist. > > See how stupid that sounds? It sounds pretty stupid, but that’s at least in part because it’s not an accurate description of what’s being discussed in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/127 "2019-12-17T00:20:47Z")
These gutless bastards build the deniability in up front so that when they’re called out that can say: “Oh, _that’s_ not what it means at ll. You must be the one with the problem.” I almost prefer honest bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/128 "2019-12-17T05:18:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It sounds pretty stupid, but that’s at least in part because it’s not an accurate description of what’s being discussed in this thread. It actually is? It’s the exist same scenario. If you think it’s stupid, congrats - you are the average person. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/129 "2019-12-17T06:04:09Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Throughout the military, this is still known as “The Circle Game” and has nothing at all to do with white supremacy. Yes, grown-up soldiers still play The Circle Game. Yep. Nothing at all to do with the some dumb 4chan joke. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/130 "2019-12-17T06:06:15Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Because variants of the OK sign – including one with the fingers pointed down and one with the forefinger bent inward against the thumb – have been appropriated by white supremacists. Have you missed that part of the national conversation over the past couple years? No, it really hasn’t. You have been spoofed by 4Chan. But many people havent heard that and yes, that’s really a game new recruits play. It has nothing to do with the 4Chan spoofe. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/131 "2019-12-17T06:25:04Z")
Relevant article: [https://taskandpurpose.com/army-navy-game-hand-gesture](https://taskandpurpose.com/army-navy-game-hand-gesture) West Point is investigating. The article explains how the association between the circle game and WP started as a 4Chan hoax but then was appropriated by some racists and white supremacists. It’s as if a bunch of neo-nazis fell for the hoax as well and started using the cool new WP gesture, and well here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/132 "2019-12-17T06:27:19Z")
The problem with this is that it’s positive reinforcement for 4chan. They set out to troll, and society gave them EXACTLY what they wanted. They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Why should we consider this a satisfactory approach in dealing with 4chan? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/133 "2019-12-17T06:30:28Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > … > > Let me use another example. The number 88 is associated with neo-Nazis. It is possible that if you see the number 88 dropped in to a conversation, it could be a subtle signal to those communicating on the same wavelength. Or, the person could be a big Dez Bryant fan. … Of a fan of the piano, or of German military weapons. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/134 "2019-12-17T06:32:14Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I wonder how the “THEY ARE JUST PLAYING A GAME!!” contingent would feel if West Point and similar institutions decide to prohibit cadets from playing this game while in uniform. I would be OK with this since the hand gesture would then officially become a stupid game with a stupid prize. Rather than just a stupid game. No, we shoudl encourage it. Dont let the assholes at 4chan win. Never, ever assume it’s a white power sign. If we do this, their little game will die out. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/135 "2019-12-17T11:02:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, we shoudl encourage it. Dont let the assholes at 4chan win. > > Never, ever assume it’s a white power sign. If we do this, their little game will die out. Your own posts contradict this assertion. We’re supposed to believe these cadets are making a stupid gesture to make people look at their hand. If this is true, then they are playing a game that is more than two decades old. How they can continue to mine yuks out of this is beyond my comprehension, but that’s the theory y’all are asking us to swallow. So if we assume that’s what they are doing, why wouldn’t they keep doing it? And why wouldn’t racists (trolls included) hide behind this fig leaf to antagonize the people they hate? And why are y’all ignoring the articles that show the sign was appropriated by racists before 4chan? The real hoax is that this is all a hoax. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/136 "2019-12-17T12:45:21Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Considering the percentage of blacks in the Army is greater than the percentage in the general population, and the percentage of blacks among the senior enlisted and commissioned officer positions in the Army are greater than in the general population, a white supremacist is more likely to have a black boss in the Army than as a civilian, not to mention their potential coworkers. It’s not really a welcoming place for their ideologies. The Army has zero tolerance for any kind of racist view, attitude, statement or conduct whatsoever. Do the black folks in the military play the circle game? ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/137 "2019-12-17T13:10:16Z")
I must admit the seemingly constant stream of threads asking for non-white people to give the benefit of the doubt to some white person who has done something questionably racist confuses the shit out of me. These situations would be a lot easier for folks to navigate if they just remember 2 simple rules: 1. No one owes you the benefit of the doubt so please stop asking and please stop expecting. 2. If you walk the walk, talk the talk, wear the uniform and/or flash the gang signs associated with racist white people don’t be mad when people (rightly or wrongly) assume you are racist too. No one cares if your stupid little game/saying/meme/whatever was highjacked by white supremacists. No one cares if the white supremacists failed to send out a memo letting everyone know that this seemingly innocuous thing is now a racist thing. No one cares if you aren’t up to date on the current racist speech and symbology. If you can’t be bothered enough to differentiate yourself from a white supremacist then why the hell should anyone be bothered enough to fully investigate your intentions and judge you accordingly? Why shouldn’t we just label you according to your actions and simply move on with our lives? And if that doesn’t seem fair to you: News Flash - Racism in America Has _NEVER_ Been Fair! Welcome to the world the rest of us live in. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/138 "2019-12-17T13:24:27Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Do the black folks in the military play the circle game? Non-military here…But based on my personal experience black folks don’t typically play any type of game that allows others to hit you free of charge. Way too much potential for fights and other violent shit to pop off. Growing up my white friends would occasionally play the circle game but they quickly learned to keep that shit away from the black guys. I distinctly remember a white guy from the neighborhood getting punched in the face after trying to introduce the game to a couple of black guys. This is just my personal experience so your millage may vary. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/139 "2019-12-17T13:32:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Who was he playing the circle game with? Who does he get to punch, the cameraman or the viewers at home? IME there’s usually just two people playing with each other or a small group. Along the vein of people who mildly prank each other back and forth. Last time I saw it was two grad students and an undergrad who all worked in the same lab. Everyone else thought they were idiots. I could totally see one of them trying to “get” the other two by being filmed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895/140 "2019-12-17T13:56:31Z")
It’s strange that people want the benefit of the doubt that’s they’re nit racist and not white supremacist, when racism and white supremacism has always been the default condition of our society and institutions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-response-to-the-white-power-gesture-being-flashed-on-camera/844895.md?page=8)