# What should be done in the Medford School District/Teacher's Union Dispute? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640 "2014-02-18T18:29:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/121 "2014-02-25T22:46:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > While there are a lot of EC kids who get special accommodations on tests (separate setting, extended time, multiple sessions, scribe, write in book, etc.), only a very small minority actually qualify for an alternative test. Distinction without a difference. If you want to claim that it isn’t an alternative test when you give the student an extra twenty minutes, three cracks at it, and a scribe, go ahead, but that does nothing to refute **lance armstrong** ’s point. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I suspect Sweden and Finland have much better education programs for their aspiring teachers, but I don’t know that “rigor” is the right or wrong word. I don’t dispute this, but it does not seem that the Scandinavians get better test scores because of the way they treat their teachers. I don’t believe North Dakota holds their teachers in higher esteem than the rest of the US, overall, or trains them as they would an engineer, yet they get results comparable to countries generally held up as paragons of educational achievement. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/122 "2014-02-26T01:59:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Distinction without a difference. If you want to claim that it isn’t an alternative test when you give the student an extra twenty minutes, three cracks at it, and a scribe, go ahead, but that does nothing to refute **lance armstrong** ’s point. Uh, no. There is an alternative test, the Extend 1 test (at least in my state). It’s given to a vanishingly small minority of students, something like 2% or fewer (it may be much less than that, I can’t find the cap), and it’s scored differently from the other tests, called Extend 2 tests. The Extend 2 tests are the regular test given with accommodations, and those scores are lumped in with all the other scores, so lance’s claim that “Usually special needs students qualify for alternative tests” is a meaningless claim in the context in which he was speaking. **Shodan** , I assume that before you’d contradict me on something like this, you’d do your own research. Did you find something that contradicts what I said? Or were you talking out your ass? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/123 "2014-02-26T14:56:12Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You’re wrong on both counts. Rest assured that I know exactly what I’m talking about. (Then I saw this:) > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Perhaps I should elaborate: > > 1. While there are a lot of EC kids who get special accommodations on tests (separate setting, extended time, multiple sessions, scribe, write in book, etc.), only a very small minority actually qualify for an alternative test. I think pretty much any kid with an IEP can qualify. But I also think there’s a (stupid) percentage limit to the number per school that can qualify, so maybe that’s what you mean. > [@](#): > > 1. “Least restrictive environment” is the legal requirement for EC, not “mainstreaming.” A lot of times mainstreaming results from this policy That’s all I was saying. > [@](#): > > but given this charter school’s existence, it’s pretty obvious that it’s not always the result. And depending on what you mean by “mainstreaming,” it may not even usually be the result. That would be true only if this charter school is the ONLY school for special ed kids in the system. It’s likely just for a small proportion of them. I bet it’s a program for autism. In general, school systems can’t just send all their special ed kids to special schools. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/124 "2014-02-26T15:01:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Uh, no. There is an alternative test, the Extend 1 test (at least in my state). It’s given to a vanishingly small minority of students, something like 2% or fewer (it may be much less than that, I can’t find the cap), and it’s scored differently from the other tests, called Extend 2 tests. The Extend 2 tests are the regular test given with accommodations, and those scores are lumped in with all the other scores, so lance’s claim that “Usually special needs students qualify for alternative tests” is a meaningless claim in the context in which he was speaking. No it’s not. All you’re saying is that there’s about 2% of the students who are special ed. The idea that there’s a school in NC full of special ed kids who all take the regular tests is really hard to believe. (Of course, they’re alternative test scores could still be low). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/125 "2014-02-26T15:09:13Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > No it’s not. All you’re saying is that there’s about 2% of the students who are special ed. How are you defining “special ed” such that this statement is true? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/126 "2014-02-26T15:13:19Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > How are you defining “special ed” such that this statement is true? I’m not. I’m merely pointing out that the statement doesn’t disprove what I said. It’s quite possible that all special ed kids qualify even if it’s just 2%, because there may be only 2% of the students who are special ed. The bottom line is that the claim that there’s a school full of special ed kids with low test scores needs additional scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/127 "2014-02-26T16:48:34Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I’m not. I’m merely pointing out that the statement doesn’t disprove what I said. This is insane. You’re using a word whose meaning you don’t know in your claim that someone else, who didn’t even use the term, is incorrect in what they said. Are you freakin’ kidding me? Here’s the thing: “special ed,” the term you used, has no actual meaning. The term of art is “exceptional children,” and that’s almost certainly what was meant when **crucible** talked about a school that specialized in “handicapped and ‘special’ students.” Such a school would have the overwhelming majority of its students taking the normal standardized test, with accommodations, and would be responsible for students scoring at normal levels on the test. Your claim that students would take an alternative test shows that you have no understanding of the difference between Extend 1 and Extend 2 tests, nor any understanding of the accountability for student performance on these tests. Your claim that **crucible’s** post makes no sense because federal law usually requires mainstreaming shows an inadequate understanding of “least restrictive environment.” The correct thing to do right now will be to educate yourself on these issues. The incorrect thing to do will be to persist in your ignorant claims that you already know everything about these issues. Your move. By the way, I suspect that **crucible** was talking about [PACE Academy](http://www.heraldsun.com/news/x849281982/State-wont-renew-charter-for-Carrboros-PACE-Academy) in Carrboro. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/128 "2014-02-26T17:00:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is insane. You’re using a word whose meaning you don’t know in your claim that someone else, who didn’t even use the term, is incorrect in what they said. Are you freakin’ kidding me? I think I know what the word means pretty damn well. > [@](#): > > Here’s the thing: “special ed,” the term you used, has no actual meaning. The term of art is “exceptional children,” and that’s almost certainly what was meant when **crucible** talked about a school that specialized in “handicapped and ‘special’ students.” Such a school would have the overwhelming majority of its students taking the normal standardized test, with accommodations, and would be responsible for students scoring at normal levels on the test. Who cares what term I use? I used the generally used term because most people know that one. “Exceptional children” is a bullshit term that doesn’t mean much to lay people. > [@](#): > > Your claim that students would take an alternative test shows that you have no understanding of the difference between Extend 1 and Extend 2 tests, nor any understanding of the accountability for student performance on these tests. Some special ed students take an alternative test. True or not? > [@](#): > > Your claim that **crucible’s** post makes no sense because federal law usually requires mainstreaming shows an inadequate understanding of “least restrictive environment.” I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > The correct thing to do right now will be to educate yourself on these issues. The incorrect thing to do will be to persist in your ignorant claims that you already know everything about these issues. Your move. If you have something useful to offer, such as details that help clarify this issue and that actually matter, feel free. If you just want to show off your technical knowledge, I’m not interested. > [@](#): > > By the way, I suspect that **crucible** was talking about [PACE Academy](http://www.heraldsun.com/news/x849281982/State-wont-renew-charter-for-Carrboros-PACE-Academy) in Carrboro. Thanks, I’ll look at this. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/129 "2014-02-26T17:03:56Z")
I took a quick look - the article says the school serves a “high percentage of exceptional children” but I found no other reference to show whether that means the school if primarily for them, or just that it’s a bit higher than normal, or what. Not enough info. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/130 "2014-02-26T17:06:13Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Who cares what term I use? I used the generally used term because most people know that one. “Exceptional children” is a bullshit term that doesn’t mean much to lay people. Obviously “special ed” doesn’t mean much to you, since you can’t even say what it means. > [@](#): > > Some special ed students take an alternative test. True or not? I don’t goddamned know what you mean by special ed, so I can’t say if it’s true or not. But if you mean that some EC kids take an alternative test, of course that’s true, just as it’s false that “usually [EC kids] qualify for alternative tests.” > [@](#): > > If you have something useful to offer, such as details that help clarify this issue and that actually matter, feel free. If you just want to show off your technical knowledge, I’m not interested. Hi-larious, given my contributions, including specific language and how IDEA is implemented, compared to your ignorant flailings–but entirely predictable. Also: another name for technical knowledge in this instance? Knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/131 "2014-02-26T17:09:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Obviously “special ed” doesn’t mean much to you, since you can’t even say what it means. I know what it means - I don’t think it matters here, and I’m not interested in a snit over it. > [@](#): > > I don’t goddamned know what you mean by special ed, so I can’t say if it’s true or not. Sigh. Okay, to translate to your satisfaction - special ed kids mean “exceptional children.” Okay? > [@](#): > > But if you mean that some EC kids take an alternative test, of course that’s true, just as it’s false that “usually [EC kids] qualify for alternative tests.” So this all comes down to “some” vs. “usually.” Great. I am aware that not all special ed kids (exceptional children, kids with IEPs, whatever) qualify for alternate tests. I was kind of assuming that kids who end up going to a charter school presumably specializing in special ed/exceptional children/children with IEPs might disproportionately qualify. But I don’t know enough to say. Glad you set that straight. > [@](#): > > Hi-larious, given my contributions, including specific language and how IDEA is implemented, compared to your ignorant flailings–but entirely predictable. I’m glad you got a chance to show off your intimate technical knowledge of IDEA, which is kind of useless in a forum where most people probably don’t even know what IDEA is. Can we move on now? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/132 "2014-02-26T17:15:31Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So this all comes down to “some” vs. “usually.” Great. Yes, it does–because “some” in this context means “at least one.” At least one EC kid gets the Extend 1 test. Very, very, very few EC kids do. So your claim that **crucible’s** post made no sense because EC kids usually get an alternative test–that claim is ignorant. A charter school that caters to EC kids will almost certainly be giving the standard test with modifications–the Extend 2–to the vast majority of its kids. The exception to this would be if the school focuses on profound disabilities: nonverbal autistic kids, that sort of thing. Kids that literally are unable to make a choice between four options on a test. Obtaining permission to provide a kid with Extend 1 is extremely difficult. The story **crucible** gave makes absolute sense. Your belief that it didn’t was based off your ignorance of what you’re now dismissing as “technical knowledge.” It’s totally fine for you not to know the difference between Extend 1 and Extend 2. I do, and that’s why they pay me the small bucks. But just as my ignorance of different types of tumors will prevent me from arguing with a physician over a cancer diagnosis, your ignorance of IDEA and its details ought to prevent you from arguing with me over EC kids in a charter school. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/133 "2014-02-26T17:23:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yes, it does–because “some” in this context means “at least one.” At least one EC kid gets the Extend 1 test. Very, very, very few EC kids do. So your claim that **crucible’s** post made no sense because EC kids usually get an alternative test–that claim is ignorant. Okay, “some,” “very very few” etc. > [@](#): > > A charter school that caters to EC kids will almost certainly be giving the standard test with modifications–the Extend 2–to the vast majority of its kids. What modifications? > [@](#): > > The exception to this would be if the school focuses on profound disabilities: nonverbal autistic kids, that sort of thing. Kids that literally are unable to make a choice between four options on a test. Yes. And that’s the kind of school I imagined we were talking about. > [@](#): > > The story **crucible** gave makes absolute sense. Your belief that it didn’t was based off your ignorance of what you’re now dismissing as “technical knowledge.” No, you’re just being pedantic. > [@](#): > > It’s totally fine for you not to know the difference between Extend 1 and Extend 2. Sure. But you need to explain why it matters. I made a general comment that after all this, you really don’t disagree with. I was talking to general audiences, not you. I’m glad you know the difference, and you think it matters. > [@](#): > > But just as my ignorance of different types of tumors will prevent me from arguing with a physician over a cancer diagnosis, your ignorance of IDEA and its details ought to prevent you from arguing with me over EC kids in a charter school. Well, no. Here’s a better analogy for what just happened. I’m a cancer patient. I say “I have cancer.” You overhear me and say “you have a stage 2 melanoma! Don’t be so ignorant! You don’t know what you’re talking about!” Yeah, whatever, doc. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/134 "2014-02-26T18:04:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yes, it does–because “some” in this context means “at least one.” Actually, I realized this is in error. The difference isn’t between “some” and “usually.” The disagreement is between “That makes no sense” and “That makes sense.” That’s not a pedantic difference. > [@lance armstrong](#): > > What modifications? I’ve explained Extend 2 modifications already, in post 120. > [@](#): > > Yes. And that’s the kind of school I imagined we were talking about. You imagined this based on your misunderstanding of IDEA. That’s not pedantic, that’s you not knowing how the law works and arguing with someone based on that misunderstanding. > [@](#): > > Sure. But you need to explain why it matters. I made a general comment that after all this, you really don’t disagree with. I was talking to general audiences, not you. I’m glad you know the difference, and you think it matters. You said **crucible’s** story didn’t make sense, and gave two totally bogus reasons why it didn’t make sense. Now you’re suggesting that the fundamental misunderstandings of the law that led you to make those two bogus objections are pedantic and don’t matter. Nice try. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/135 "2014-02-26T18:53:53Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You said **crucible’s** story didn’t make sense, and gave two totally bogus reasons why it didn’t make sense. They weren’t bogus. > [@](#): > > ]Now you’re suggesting that the fundamental misunderstandings of the law that led you to make those two bogus objections are pedantic and don’t matter. Nice try. I don’t have any fundamental misunderstandings of the law. Are we done now? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/136 "2014-02-26T21:27:11Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I think I know what the word means pretty damn well. > > Who cares what term I use? I used the generally used term because most people know that one. “Exceptional children” is a bullshit term that doesn’t mean much to lay people. Aren’t you the guy who gets on people’s asses if they use the word “retard” or “retarded”? :dubious: > [@Stupid Republican idea of the day](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/8488): > > Could we lay off the term “retarded,” > > \ > > Thanks. > [@SDMB Bigoted Asshole Omnibus Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3634): > > Please don’t use retard as an insult. Especially in a thread about genetics. > [@Stupid Republican idea of the day](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/8556): > > (And not only is it substanceless and an insult, it’s rude to people with disabilities, like my child. Please don’t use that as an insult - pick another one). :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/137 "2014-02-27T00:06:30Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Aren’t you the guy who gets on people’s asses if they use the word “retard” or “retarded”? I have no problem if you use it on yourself. I don’t think you want to walk into this and throw that out though. Really bad idea. You’re way over your head. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/138 "2014-02-27T02:57:49Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > They weren’t bogus. > > I don’t have any fundamental misunderstandings of the law. > > Are we done now? Given that you’re reduced to simple denials of what I’ve said, despite overwhelming evidence that supports what I’ve said (your arguments are bogus, and you’re ignorant of the law), I suppose we are. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/139 "2014-02-27T13:50:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Given that you’re reduced to simple denials of what I’ve said, despite overwhelming evidence that supports what I’ve said (your arguments are bogus, and you’re ignorant of the law), I suppose we are. Good. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640/140 "2014-03-01T17:27:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Compared to what–compared to respect for the profession in countries where we see more “successful” educational systems? Or that there’s more respect for teachers than car salesmen in three different countries? (Hint: the poll looks at three countries and includes car salesmen). > No: my point in dismissing you is that the only evidence you offered was that you can see Russia from your house–er, excuse me, that you know a nuclear engineer in Sweden. When pressed to offer more evidence, you write, “If you aren’t aware that Scandinavian countries put far less emphasis on an individuals “prestige” in society as defined by their jobs then we probably don’t need to discuss Scandinavia since you’re not well informed on it.” IN other words, you respond to requests for evidence by distorting the request and then saying you won’t fill the distorted request. > > Groovy. So now you ignore polls that teachers are well respected in the United States, demonstrating you have have no intellectual honesty about this discussion. You’re just a bitter teacher that has a really easy job that very low intelligence housewife type women could do and you’re mad you don’t make as much as a lawyer. End of story with you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-in-the-medford-school-district-teachers-union-dispute/681640.md?page=8)