# What should be Done with Nonviolent Child Molesters?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [July 5, 2016, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119 "2016-07-05T12:49:25Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)
#### Post date: [July 8, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/81 "2016-07-08T17:20:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Chemical castration is not a reliable means to prevent sex crimes in human beings. There are records going back to Ancient Greece of men completely lacking testicles who were, nonetheless, still capable of erection and penetration.
Ancient Greece? Shoot, I’ve personally witnessed XY-chromosome individuals completely lacking testicles who could stay erect and “rock and roll all night” (and I suppose party every day, too). These are individual who are also on military-level anti-androgens and taking estrogen, who often test with a testosterone level of “below detectable limits.”
(as a side effect, however, they often cannot come, nor ejaculate anything at all, even keeping in mind a person without testes can often ejaculate _something_).
The human body is a funny thing. While these are the exceptions, they aren’t exceedingly rare.
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### Author:  [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)
#### Post date: [July 8, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/82 "2016-07-08T17:23:53Z")
I’ll add that a physically castrated person (bilateral orchiectomy) or a chemically castrated person who wanted to use their penis for sex could also buy genuine black or “grey” market testosterone without a terrible amount of trouble, which would greatly facilitate use of their organs. It’s not that hard to get; in theory, if I had a need to and wanted to break the law (which I definitely do not want to do either), I could send a text message now and get some delivered to me by tonight.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [July 8, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/83 "2016-07-08T19:28:19Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> Sheesh. Usually most GD Dopers can be relied on to be a bit brighter than this. Folks suffering from “Friday brain” after a long week, or what?
GD is not immune from contagion of the “OMG LET ME MAKE CLEAR HOW I HATE PEDOPHILES MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE DOES!!!” syndrome.
BTW I just thought of one category of underage-sex offender who would claim to be nonviolent: passive consumers of reposted kiddy pr0n, who’d argue the violence was committed by the creator of the material and the first uploaders and now it just floats around the 'net. Good luck with that explanation, dudes.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [July 8, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/84 "2016-07-08T19:37:58Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#):
>
> BTW I just thought of one category of underage-sex offender who would claim to be nonviolent: passive consumers of reposted kiddy pr0n, who’d argue the violence was committed by the creator of the material and the first uploaders and now it just floats around the 'net. Good luck with that explanation, dudes.
Yeah, how is that anything other than being an accessory after the fact to a violent crime? I mean, props for not actually committing violence yourself and all, but still. If you’re morally opposed to something—say, slaughtering animals for fur—you don’t blame only the people who actually commit the violence and give a pass to all the people who financially incentivized the violence because they wanted to enjoy the end result.
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### Author:  [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)
#### Post date: [July 8, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/85 "2016-07-08T23:55:18Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#):
>
> I’ll add that a physically castrated person (bilateral orchiectomy) or a chemically castrated person who wanted to use their penis for sex could also buy genuine black or “grey” market testosterone without a terrible amount of trouble, which would greatly facilitate use of their organs.
That’s a fascinating point that I was unaware of, **Una Persson**. Do you happen to know if drugs like Viagra or Cialis would allow castrated individuals to achieve an erection (assuming they normally can’t), or would it generally require testosterone as well?
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### Author:  [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2016, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/86 "2016-07-09T09:40:55Z")
eg 35% do not reoffend, the question to be asked is how many of them reoffend and do not get caught? Child sexual molestation is the secret crime that the victim keeps quiet about until many years later if at all. Known child molesters are the tip of a massive iceberg the bulk of which remains hidden from the public.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2016, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/87 "2016-07-09T12:02:14Z")
Given the massive emotional hysteria the topic triggers it is at this point in history impossible to get solid statistics on real rates of occurrence or recidivism rates. The OMG THEY’RE CRAWLING HORRORS KILL KILL KILL!!! meme gets in the way of dealing with the problem(s) rationally, which is the only way to find _effective_ ways to handle these people and protect both actual and potential victims.
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### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/88 "2016-07-09T13:19:49Z")
There is plenty of data on recidivism rates it’s just that it is tricky to evaluate. The Australian Institute of Criminology has [Misperceptions about child sex offenders](http://aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/421-440/tandi429.html) which covers:
> [@](#):
>
> Misperception 4: Child sex offenders have high rates of recidivism
>
> Two contrasting arguments have been made about child sex offenders’ proclivity to reoffend. In public and media discourse, child sex offenders are often constructed as compulsive recidivists who are virtually certain to reoffend. For example, in a second reading speech to the Legislative Council of South Australia about the Criminal Law (Sentencing) (Mandatory Imprisonment of Child Sex Offenders) Amendment Bill, one Parliamentarian described child sex offenders as ‘beings of a subhuman category…[they are]…the least rehabilitatable people’ (Bressington 2010).
>
> Conversely, in the criminological literature, the opposite is often posited—that child sex offenders have low rates of recidivism compared with other types of offenders (see eg McSherry & Keyzer 2009; Minnesota Department of Corrections 2007).
They go on to explain some of the interpretive difficulties and say:
> [@](#):
>
> Studies that narrowly define recidivism and use short follow-up periods may therefore underestimate the rate of recidivism of child sex offenders (Moulden et al. 2009). Prentky et al.’s (cited in Doren 1998) study of recidivism rates among extrafamilial child sex offenders over a 25 year period used a new charge for a sex offence as the measure of recidivism. This study found that 52 percent of child sex offenders reoffended during the 25 year at-risk period. As Doren (1998: 101) argues, however, due to the limitations of recidivism studies on child sex offenders described above
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > the 52% recidivist figure should be considered as a conservative approximation of the true base rate for sex offense recidivism in previously convicted child molesters…[it]…represents the lowest approximation for extrafamilial child molester sexual recidivism
>
> .
So there is real data and real answers they just aren’t clear cut.
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/89 "2016-07-09T15:08:57Z")
> [@Flyer](#):
>
> You have evidently missed every single one of the literally dozens of news articles about priests, school teachers, babysitters, etc., who were homosexual and preyed upon children.
A man who preys on male children is NOT homosexual, any more than a man who preys on female children is hetrosexual. Homosexuals are people who prefer to have sex with adult members of the same sex. Andrew Vachss was the first expert to point this out.
Whenever is this bit of bullshit going to end?
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/90 "2016-07-09T21:08:24Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#):
>
> A man who preys on male children is NOT homosexual, any more than a man who preys on female children is heterosexual.
This is illogical. So every predator is devoid of sexual orientation?
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### Author:  [@Sampsiceramos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampsiceramos)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/91 "2016-07-09T21:22:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> This is illogical. Come on.
It depends on how you define homosexuality, really. If you strictly interpret it as “has sex with/is sexually attracted to members of the same biological sex”, then yes, I suppose that a man molesting a young boy is technically homosexual behaviour. However, children have relatively few gendered sexual characteristics, and as such it is certainly subject to debate whether the terms “homosexual” and “heterosexual” are even meaningful in the context of child molestation.
Moreover - and this is the point I believe the poster you quoted was trying to make - even if it were homosexual behaviour, this is irrelevant. The insinuation that is generally made when male child molesters are ascribed homosexuality is that they molest children _because_ they are homosexuals (which is patently ridiculous) - and as such that the insinuator is really more interested in discriminating against homosexuals, particularly male ones, than they are in preventing child molestation.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/92 "2016-07-09T21:35:56Z")
> [@Sampsiceramos](#):
>
> It depends on how you define homosexuality, really. If you strictly interpret it as “has sex with/is sexually attracted to members of the same biological sex”, then yes, I suppose that a man molesting a young boy is technically homosexual behaviour. However, children have relatively few gendered sexual characteristics, and as such it is certainly subject to debate whether the terms “homosexual” and “heterosexual” are even meaningful in the context of child molestation.
>
> Moreover - and this is the point I believe the poster you quoted was trying to make - even if it were homosexual behaviour, this is irrelevant. The insinuation that is generally made when male child molesters are ascribed homosexuality is that they molest children _because_ they are homosexuals (which is patently ridiculous) - and as such that the insinuator is really more interested in discriminating against homosexuals, particularly male ones, than they are in preventing child molestation.
In this thread, we are seeing a version of the “Muslims commit terrorism” semantics argument. It is about the “none, some, all” wording.
Not all Muslims commit terrorism, but some terrorists are Muslims.
Not all homosexuals are sexual predators, but some sexual predators are homosexuals.
Unfortunately people (I don’t mean you, **Sampsiceramos** , but some other posters) tend to immediately latch on to one poorly-phrased part of that wording and criticize, “You think all Muslims are terrorists? All gays are sexual predators?”
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### Author:  [@Sampsiceramos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampsiceramos)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/93 "2016-07-09T21:51:02Z")
Although I understand what you are saying, and to a large extent agree, it is not purely a question of semantics.
There is a marked difference between the statement “Some child molesters are homosexual” - which they may very well be, i.e they may very well have a male, adult partner in their daily life - and the statement “some child molesters prey on children _because_ they are homosexual”.
The first statement is indubitably true by simple virtue of the law of large numbers. There are, unfortunately, enough child molesters that it is a statistical impossibility that none of them practice homosexuality with consenting adults in their daily life. The second statement, however, is subject to scrutiny - particularly because, as I have said, the concepts of “homosexuality” and “heterosexuality” really do not have much meaning when discussing attraction to children who, as a group, are to a very large degree quite androgynous.
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### Author:  [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/94 "2016-07-09T22:03:02Z")
> [@](#):
>
> most convicted sex offenders do not offend again
well, the above discussion kind of disputes that about convicted sex offenders, but what about the vast majority of sex offenders who are never convicted? Based on the extremely low rates of reporting of sex crimes, and the apparent utter disinterest of the judicial system in investigating and prosecuting these crimes when they are reported, I’m guessing at least 90% of sex offenders are never convicted. Since they engage in patterns of behavior, I suspect most leave a trail of victims behind them instead of their offense being a one-time thing.
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### Author:  [@Beelzebubba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beelzebubba)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/95 "2016-07-10T21:50:58Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#):
>
> I’m no expert, but it seems likely to me that a sexual attraction to children is biological, and incurable.
I’m not an expert either, but those convicted of child molestation were often molested when they were young. It’s a case of the victim turning into the same monster that hurt them. I believe that many of these offenders, as well as some who were never sexually abused or molested as children, truly struggle with guilt for their urges and/or attractions. I also believe that some child molesters experience genuine remorse for their crimes and the damage they have caused. BUT, none of this protects children from these predators nor does it heal or reverse the damage they inflict on their victims!
If I had sexual feelings or attraction toward children, I very seriously think that I would prevent myself from acting on them by killing myself! On more than one occasion, I have voted for state (Georgia) government candidates who support capital punishment for second offense child molesters. There is no way to cure them and allowing them to live among the general population is a risk far too great to their potential future victims.
> [@](#):
>
> If a person is attracted to children, but never acts on that impulse, he or she can function in society like the rest of us. Fine. People can live without sex.
How can we be sure that they never have acted on their impulses? It’s just a matter of the ones who are caught and the ones who aren’t. Conversely, many people live with the impulse to rape, murder or commit numerous other violent crimes but never act on them. As much as I believe society should be protected from the offenders, I don’t want to live in a world where anyone is punished for their thoughts rather than their actions!
> [@](#):
>
> But what about those who act on their impulses?
>
> Okay, jail. But unless murder is involved, pedophilia is not a life sentence. Sex offender registry? Does that do anything except deny an offender a job? Have you run a check on the people moving in on your block?
The sentence actually varies depending on state law. In Georgia, “Aggravated Child Molestation” carries a mandatory lifetime sentence (or a ‘split sentence’ of 25 or more years of imprisonment with probation for lifetime, but this has only been used in very few cases and almost exclusively with female offenders). Aggravated child molestation is defined as any sexual act which physically harms the child OR involves an act of sodomy. The victim must be be at least 13 but younger than 16 for this to apply.
> [@](#):
>
> Is there a humane solution to this? Internment camps? Pedophiles spending their lives in comfortable camps away from society?
>
> If at some future date, pedophilia was discovered to be genetic, would genetic screening and automatic internment be feasible?
>
> Or, if pedophilia turns out to be genetic, would we have to rethink our attitudes towards pedophiles?
I do not believe pedophilia is genetic, but once again, I’m not an expert. For the sake of this argument, I will consider that it could possibly be genetic…
And if it ever was determined to be genetic, I think those individuals should be considered mentally ill and a danger to society. As for what should be done with them, I honestly don’t know???
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/96 "2016-07-10T22:20:23Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> This is illogical. So every predator is devoid of sexual orientation?
No. Their orientation is towards children. That’s what pedophilia means. Some have a preference for male children, some female. Some don’t care.
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### Author:  [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/97 "2016-07-11T03:53:16Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#):
>
> Such naivety is why we have a system responsible for so many repeat offenders.
Look at the research and get back to me.
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### Author:  [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/98 "2016-07-11T04:09:50Z")
> [@T.M](#):
>
> eg 35% do not reoffend, the question to be asked is how many of them reoffend and do not get caught? Child sexual molestation is the secret crime that the victim keeps quiet about until many years later if at all. Known child molesters are the tip of a massive iceberg the bulk of which remains hidden from the public.
Well, that’s the question isn’t. Some research has something like only 1 in 4 incidents ever being reported but we are coming from a history that generally down played or kept such incidents quiet. All that can be done for now is base decisions off research we have now (surveys used to detect unreported crime are not the most reliable), educate better about consent and sexual assault so people will come forward and learn about the offenders that commit the crimes.
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### Author:  [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/99 "2016-07-11T04:21:51Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#):
>
> well, the above discussion kind of disputes that about convicted sex offenders, but what about the vast majority of sex offenders who are never convicted? Based on the extremely low rates of reporting of sex crimes, and the apparent utter disinterest of the judicial system in investigating and prosecuting these crimes when they are reported, I’m guessing at least 90% of sex offenders are never convicted. Since they engage in patterns of behavior, I suspect most leave a trail of victims behind them instead of their offense being a one-time thing.
Perhaps but that’s speculation. Should we come down harder on a class of offenders because there is some evidence that some have engaged in a pattern of behavior?
I ask that in a sort of tongue in cheek manner. Sex offenders are already subject to much harsher sentences and prolonged civil sanctions regardless of the nature of there crime or what research says about the profile of people most likely to reoffend.
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### Author:  [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-done-with-nonviolent-child-molesters/759119/100 "2016-07-11T14:06:03Z")
> [@aag3981](#):
>
> Perhaps but that’s speculation. Should we come down harder on a class of offenders because there is some evidence that some have engaged in a pattern of behavior?
>
> I ask that in a sort of tongue in cheek manner. Sex offenders are already subject to much harsher sentences and prolonged civil sanctions regardless of the nature of there crime or what research says about the profile of people most likely to reoffend.
>
> Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk
I think that an ideal place to start a research project would be the UK. As some of you know we are going through a catalogue of disasters concerning child molestation, the average annual reported figures for England and Wales 16,000 underage sexually assaulted victims (NSPCC) it is believed that the figure could be at least doubled to take into consideration unreported cases. There are now many historical cases coming forward concerning children in the care of the local authorities where there is evidence of blatant cover-ups. The greatest stumbling block has been the refusal of the police to investigate complaints.
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