# What SHOULD be the punishment for hanging a noose? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492 "2007-10-12T18:14:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/21 "2007-10-13T03:37:19Z")
[QUOTE=Hilarity N. Suze] A noose hanging anywhere is not any kind of threat, it is a symbol. [/QUOTE] Threats **are** symbols. “Do what I say or you die” is a string of symbols, and a threat. A noose is more succinct, but no less of a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/22 "2007-10-13T03:55:43Z")
I suppose it is a threat in the same sense that “every American in Iraq should die” or “religious people should all die” is a threat. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/23 "2007-10-13T05:16:09Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Threats **are** symbols. “Do what I say or you die” is a string of symbols, and a threat. A noose is more succinct, but no less of a threat. [/QUOTE] If you make that statement to an individual, to their face - it is a threat. Without the individual targeting component, it stops being a threat (or at least based on the California code I posted above). I welcome the local legal types to help explain how the courts determine a threat versus just asshole speech. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/24 "2007-10-13T06:30:29Z")
[QUOTE=Algher] If you make that statement to an individual, to their face - it is a threat. Without the individual targeting component, it stops being a threat (or at least based on the California code I posted above). [/QUOTE] No matter what the law says, an indiscriminate threat is still a threat. If I nail a sign saying “All blacks must die” or “Kill black people” up on a tree, do you really think that black people wouldn’t take it as a threat ? ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/25 "2007-10-13T06:57:53Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Threats **are** symbols. “Do what I say or you die” is a string of symbols, and a threat. A noose is more succinct, but no less of a threat. [/QUOTE] And exactly what do you think the noose is saying? What is the threat? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/26 "2007-10-13T09:54:44Z")
[QUOTE=Hilarity N. Suze] And exactly what do you think the noose is saying? What is the threat? [/QUOTE] “Death to black people”; it’s meant that for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/27 "2007-10-13T10:39:58Z")
[QUOTE=Algher] I was reading a recent Jena 6 article, and it mentioned that the 3 students who put up the nooses were suspended, but not prosecuted. [/QUOTE] I think if the noosehangers had been expelled none of this Jena shit would have happened. The administrators would have been able to say “We don’t want this shit in our schools” and if any of the same racial flareups happened, then only the individuals would be to blame instead of all the finger pointing that happened. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/28 "2007-10-13T11:25:29Z")
Interesting point about is it against the law for a general threat. My wag would be it is much like the cross burning mentioned earlier. with all due respect, a noose isn’t just a threat against black people in America. Certainly, that’s the most immediate example that springs to mind, but lynch mobs used nooses on more than just blacks. And of course, Nazi’s, the Soviets and Communist States used leaving the victim hanging as a method of intimidation. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/29 "2007-10-13T15:06:08Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] “Death to black people”; it’s meant that for a long time. [/QUOTE] How is that different than the situations Shodan mentions? ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/30 "2007-10-13T19:37:02Z")
Nothing. It is not a direct threat to anyone personally. It is a form of expression and is covered by the the first amendment. It is also a complete asshole thing to do given the popular symbology of the noose to blacks. Being an asshole isn’t illegal though and it shouldn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/31 "2007-10-13T21:58:31Z")
**Acid** , again, if this noose had been hung in a non-specific location, I’d agree with your assessment. This was hung an a black professor’s office door. While I don’t by any means know if it’s an _immediate_ threat to her life, I do seriously believe that it’s something more than just “free speech.” Look at it like this. Since I don’t know (or want to know) what ethnicity you are, let’s just say for the sake of argument that _your_ ethnic group was randomly but routinely shot in the head by _my_ ethnic group, as recent as the 1960’s. Now let’s further say that my ethnic group stopped doing this. But elements of my ethnic group still loudly proclaim to _want_ to shoot people of your ethnic group in the head. And then one day you find a large caliber pistol bullet left specifically where _you_ will find it. Would _you_ feel that this was just free speech? If this will help persuade you of anything, consider this: **Der Trihs** and I would have a hard time agreeing on the color of an orange. Yet from what I have read here, we’re in near-perfect agreement on this matter. Nooses and swastikas on billboards, pamphlets, random bits of public property: free speech. It’s reprehensible, for sure, but protected. Nooses and swastikas left on people’s homes, personal property, or place of business: _potentially_ some level of threat. We would need to see into the mind of the perpetrator to know for certain whether it was just an asshole prank, a hollow warning, or something more sinister. But simply dismissing it as “free speech” in this case is grossly insensitive, and potentially dangerous. Let the punishment fit the crime. If it’s an asshole prank, put the perp’s face on every bulletin board at Columbia, and let him live with the social consequences of his actions. If it’s some misguided attempt at free speech, expel the asshole. His right to free speech does not trump Columbia’s right, as a private entity, to ban speech if finds disruptive to the environment they desire on their property. If it seems like it was some sort of warning or threat of physical violence, some sort of assault charge might be in order. But all that’s the cart-in-front-of-the-horse, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/32 "2007-10-13T23:21:57Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] “Death to black people”; it’s meant that for a long time. [/QUOTE] It may have meant that to black people. It sure didn’t mean that to _me._ ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/33 "2007-10-13T23:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=ExTank] **Acid** , Look at it like this. Since I don’t know (or want to know) what ethnicity you are, let’s just say for the sake of argument that _your_ ethnic group was randomly but routinely shot in the head by _my_ ethnic group, as recent as the 1960’s. Now let’s further say that my ethnic group stopped doing this. But elements of my ethnic group still loudly proclaim to _want_ to shoot people of your ethnic group in the head. And then one day you find a large caliber pistol bullet left specifically where _you_ will find it. Would _you_ feel that this was just free speech? [/QUOTE] snip mine) I’ve given this some thought, and my honest response is that I’d be a little worried. I would probably report it to the local authorities and maybe ask that a little extra security be added to the rotation around my offices. There is however a degree of implied threat removed between a bullet and a noose. Until someone left me a direct threat I wouldn’t be more concerned than my above actions. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/34 "2007-10-14T00:27:58Z")
Wait…Someone hung a moose? How is that even possible? Those things are huge… But I guess it depends…was the moose in season? Is that any less human than shooting a moose? ---
**Author:** ![IWasNeverHere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ea666f/32.png) [@IWasNeverHere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWasNeverHere)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/35 "2007-10-17T04:43:17Z")
A Moose? Wow, that must have been hard. Ever try to get those things to hold still long enough to get the rope over those huge antlers? I can tell YOU, it’s not easy! Not that I would know… or anything like that… This has been a good discussion to read. I have some fairly strong feelings about this situation. I think the kids who hung the noose should be punished by the school, and taken home by their Dad who should immediately escort the child to the wood shed for a through “education” regarding using the common cents the Good Lord gave him. Secondly, the gang that beat the other boy after he lost consciousness should be tried for attempted murder and if convicted, receive the penalty appropriate for the crime! The argument that it wasn’t attempted murder is ridicules to say the least! A group of young teen boys has within its collective strength more then enough power to kill someone by kicking them in the head. The fact that he didn’t die is why it is “attempted” and not murder. I would feel this way regardless of race. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492/36 "2007-10-17T13:07:05Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] Wait…Someone hung a moose? [/QUOTE] no…_like_ a moose. One positive supposed characteristic of said people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-the-punishment-for-hanging-a-noose/422492.md?page=1)