# What should George Bailey have done with the surplus money? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [November 24, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638 "2023-11-24T15:12:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/41 "2023-11-24T22:51:48Z")
Oh, and to answer the OP, George and Mary gave the B&L the $2,000 they were going to use for their vacation before the bank run. How much interest have they earned on that loan in the intervening years? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/42 "2023-11-24T22:54:21Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I was trying to remember the handles of legal Dopers, and couldn’t come up with as many as I hoped for. Off the top of my head I think @Spoons and @Moriarty are. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/43 "2023-11-24T22:55:37Z")
I _ **think** _ @Northern_Piper as well. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/44 "2023-11-24T22:56:09Z")
Yes but they were already mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/45 "2023-11-24T22:57:05Z")
Oh right. > [@commasense](#): > > Oh, and to answer the OP, George and Mary gave the B&L the $2,000 they were going to use for their vacation before the bank run. How much interest have they earned on that loan in the intervening years? Yeah, but they can’t very well claim that they’re legally owed the surplus money donated by the town because of the 16 year old voluntary ‘loan’ they paid out. The modern analogy would be a GoFundMe account. What happens when, say, an account to get (X) amount for medical bills or whatever gathers a large surplus? Can the recipients legally keep the surplus for themselves to do whatever they want with, or is there some obligation, either legally or according to GoFundMe rules, to at least attempt to return the surplus? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/46 "2023-11-24T22:57:53Z")
Yes, he was the only one i was sure of, even though he’s Canadian. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that!) ---
**Author:** ![Hermione1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d07c76/32.png) [@Hermione1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione1)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/47 "2023-11-24T23:12:00Z")
Yeah, and as TV Tropes points out, look what the thriving businesses in town are–bars, liquor stores, a pawnbroker. Presumably, these are all thriving because people in Pottersville are drinking to forget their problems, or pawning their possessions to get by. Which says a great deal about the quality of life for the average Pottersvillian. Ernie mentions living in “a shack in Potters’ Field”, a notorious slum in Bedford Falls that, presumably, has only grown bigger in Pottersville, and there’s a few cut lines that would have explained what happened to Mr. Martini. With no affordable new home for him and his family, they remained in Potters’ Field, in that firetrap house, and when a fire broke out there, Mr. Martini was able to save his family but died of his injuries. All in all, it doesn’t sound as though Pottersville is a very nice place to live. Getting back to the OP’s question…given the kind of man George was, he’d put the surplus into the Building and Loan as an investment in the town’s future, and a bulwark against any further shenanigans by Potter. Who is an old man, and won’t live forever. In fact, a scripted scene that was never filmed had Clarence showing up in Potter’s office right after “Happy New Year to you…in jail!” and taunting Potter about the fact that he was going to die soon, and no one would mourn him. Moreover, divine justice has been shown to exist in the IAWL universe…and there’s one Judge that all Potter’s wealth can’t buy off. So the future may not be so great for Potter…but it looks bright for George, his family, and his town. (Especially with the post-war housing boom around the corner!) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/48 "2023-11-24T23:15:44Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Oh, and to answer the OP, George and Mary gave the B&L the $2,000 they were going to use for their vacation before the bank run. How much interest have they earned on that loan in the intervening years? That is actually a problematic development of the film. George didn’t deposit that money in the B&L; he handed out his own money to cover a shortfall in what was probably the B&L not having sufficient funds on hand to cover withdrawals. I don’t know what the laws are at the time (looser for loan associations than for banks) but most if not all states would have had some minimum cash holdings requirement that should have been way more than George’s $2000 for a B&L serving a large community. That the business was being run on such a spare margin indicates that either they were making a lot of pretty suspect loans on terms that were not covering expenses, or else somebody was actually pilfering funds or doing some shady bookkeeping, and George was acting to cover up malfeasance. He also somehow gets the “Old Granville House”; it’s never made clear in the film who pays for it but one can imagine that the mortgage was held in default by the B&L, and Mary did some machinations to get it in George’s possession without putting it on the market to try to recoup fair value to the shareholders. The house is somehow miraculously transformed by Mary’s handiness with a wallpaper roller even though it starts out with the kind of major roof and water-damage problems that would make any rehabber think twice about whether to just demo everything but structure and start from the bones outward. It sure seems like the Baileys might have gotten some work ‘in trade’ for releasing loan obligations or giving out loans without adequate security. I would bet dollars to donuts that once those bank inspectors start going through the B&L accounts they’re going to find a lot more than eight thousand dollars unaccounted for. Fortunately for George, I know a guy. Just call and ask for a “Hoover MaxExtract Pressure Pro Model 60”… Stranger ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/49 "2023-11-24T23:46:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I would bet dollars to donuts that once those bank inspectors start going through the B&L accounts they’re going to find a lot more than eight thousand dollars unaccounted for. Well, gotta fight fire with fire. You don’t keep someone as corrupt as Mr. Potter from taking over the entire town without having your hand in some shady dealings yourself. Perhaps even, dealings that led directly to the [savings & loan crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis) of the 80s (a ‘building & loan’ is the same as a ‘savings & loan’, right?). > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Fortunately for George, I know a guy. Just call and ask for a “Hoover MaxExtract Pressure Pro Model 60”… But…as discontented as George was with running a shabby building & loan in Bedford Falls, at least it came with some tangible accomplishments and challenges in its own way to his intellect. He might have really have had a meltdown trying to accept his role as a manager of a Cinnabon in Omaha, Nebraska… ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/50 "2023-11-25T00:30:35Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > could Potter be charged with a crime for keeping and not returning the $8,000? I never saw the movie. But, as I understand it, Potter found $8,000 that had been lost, and refused to return it. Was it cash? Presuming he had no role in its loss, he has no criminal liability for not returning it - cash is a bearer note; it’s only “owned” by you to the extent that you possess it(either actually or constructively). However, he would be potentially liable for a suit for unjust enrichment, which might require him to return the money if his retention of it was not equitable. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/51 "2023-11-25T00:45:13Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I never saw the movie. > > But, as I understand it, Potter found $8,000 that had been lost, and refused to return it. Uncle Billy bumps into Potter while heading to the bank with an envelop with the deposit in hand, and because he’s a bumbling idiot drops the envelop into Potter’s lap when Potter grabs his newspaper. It is clear from context that Potter knows that the money is a deposit, and in fact he scuttles off to call the bank examiner even before the loss is discovered (hence why the examiner is onto George Bailey on such short notice). Nobody discovers that Potter has the money so he can’t be prosecuted but if evidence came out that he did, Potter would certainly have a difficult time explaining how he came to be in possession of the exact amount that Billy attempted to deposit without acknowledging that he knew that the money was from the B&L. And I’ll point out again that this money is ‘owned’ by the depositors to the B&L, who are collectively a customer of Potter’s bank; by keeping the money in full knowledge that it is a deposit-en-route, he’s effectively committing bank fraud (taking the money and not seeing to the legal deposit of it). I can’t find the scene from the movie online but here is an amateur production that portrays it: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/H8mQE6lfiAc/hqdefault.jpg "Uncle Billy loses the money") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8mQE6lfiAc) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/52 "2023-11-25T00:48:18Z")
It’s not quite that simple, given Potter’s position as president of the bank. Uncle Billy, somewhat absent-minded and fond of his tipple, put the B&L’s cash in an envelope in preparation to deposit it in Potter’s bank. Before he does, he sees Potter entering the bank carrying a newspaper, which he takes and looks at. Without realizing it, Billy puts the envelope in the newspaper and hands it back to Potter, who doesn’t realize he has it until he gets into his office. When he finds it, he looks out and sees Billy frantically looking for the envelope, then calls a newspaper to report that the B&L is short on funds. This is the situation to which @Stranger_On_A_Train was responding in this post above. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I am not a lawyer but Potter clearly knew where the money came from and made no effort to return it, thus establishing _mens rea_ (intent) to take money without legitimate transaction even though he did not overtly commit an act of theft or robbery. Furthermore, because the money was actually the collective property of depositors in the Bailey Building & Loan which was _en route_ to being deposited in his bank (presumably to cover bank loans keeping the B&L solvent) he is actually committing bank fraud by “accepting” the funds and not applying them to the B&L account. That Uncle Billy doesn’t hand him the deposit slip is irrelevant; as a principal of the bank he has a fiduciary responsibility to his clients to handle their money ethically and not steal or hide it even if it didn’t go through the formal deposit process. ETA: Ninjaed by @Stranger_On_A_Train! ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/53 "2023-11-25T00:53:25Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > he scuttles off to call the bank examiner even before the loss is discovered (hence why the examiner is onto George Bailey on such short notice). I’ve always had the impression that the examiner’s presence is routine and coincidental. But I think Potter admits to George that he called a reporter and picks up the phone to swear out a warrant for George’s arrest. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/54 "2023-11-25T01:07:56Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > But I think Potter admits to George that he called a reporter and picks up the phone to swear out a warrant for George’s arrest. Yeah, Potter was picking up the phone to call the cops toward the end of George’s begging him for a loan of the money he didn’t know Potter had snagged. Right after Potter’s “whyyy, you’re worth more dead than alive!..” speech. Lionel Barrymore played such a great villain in that movie. Yes, a bit cartoonish of a characterization, but well played. And to think that little Drew Barrymore, the cute little kid from E.T. (and some other stuff) is his great grand-niece. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/55 "2023-11-25T01:08:07Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I’ve always had the impression that the examiner’s presence is routine and coincidental. But I think Potter admits to George that he called a reporter and picks up the phone to swear out a warrant for George’s arrest. That may be; I haven’t seen the film in decades. But regardless of who he calls, it is clear that Potter knows the provenance of the money, and instead of calling the B&L, he is a venal dick who keeps the money and puts George in the hot seat. George was admittedly foolish for trusting the drunken Uncle Billy with such a crucial task but nothing about how the B&L is portrayed shows it as being well run or that securing depositor’s funds is a high priority. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/56 "2023-11-25T09:14:05Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Off the top of my head I think @Spoons and @Moriarty are. I am, yes, but having not seen the movie in about 40 years, I cannot remember it well, and don’t feel qualified to comment at this time. I’ll have to watch the movie again. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/57 "2023-11-25T09:16:36Z")
Message deleted. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/58 "2023-11-25T12:21:59Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > George adopts an invisible friend. A big white rabbit. Random thought I had after waking up at 4am and not being able to fall back asleep: Harvey was a [Púca](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%BAca), a supernatural creature from Celtic folklore. They are mischievous yet largely benign entities, and can appear in many forms, including that of a hare, and of course George, I mean Elwood, saw it as a 6 foot tall white rabbit. The Easter bunny is often depicted as a human sized bipedal rabbit. It hides candy and colored eggs for children to find, which is slightly mischievous. Is the Easter bunny a Púca? Was Harvey the Easter bunny? Does that make ‘Harvey’ an Easter movie, just as IAWL is a Christmas movie? For all I know that may be hinted at or even explicitly stated in the movie; I haven’t seen ‘Harvey’ in years. Yep, some people lost in thought with 4am insomnia might think up ideas for clean affordable energy or ending world hunger. I think of things like ^that^ 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/59 "2023-11-25T14:02:58Z")
> “The Greatest Happiness is to scatter your enemy and drive him before you. To see his cities reduced to ashes. To see those who love him shrouded and in tears. And to gather to your bosom his wives and daughters.” ~ Genghis Khan And now you know what George should have done with the money. Merry Xmas. Ho-ho-ho. /s ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638/60 "2023-11-25T22:54:48Z")
Hate to burst everyone’s bubbles, but with George’s morals, he’s going to give the money back. If you notice, as people are dropping money in the fishbowl, one of the clerks is writing it all down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-george-bailey-have-done-with-the-surplus-money/993638.md?page=4)