# What should I teach my nephew about cops/authority in general? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045 "2009-03-27T23:07:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/41 "2009-03-29T18:56:18Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > It couldn’t happen (legally) that you’d have the choice between allowing a search and being arrested. If you have the option to not allow the search, that means they don’t have cause to arrest you. > > It is not always true that the fastest and easier way to settle their unfounded suspicion is to cooperate. It would actually be quicker and easier and more empowering for me to ask if I’m under arrest and, if not, be on my way. (And again, if so, they won’t be asking to search my car anyway, because they won’t need my permission.) I like my rights. I don’t feel that they’re only to be exercised when you have something to hide. Generally, I’d agree with this but the problem is that they can and will detain you for as long as they can if you refuse to cooperate. Maybe they “smell weed” or some other crap. Now they can detain you while you both hang out and wait for the k-9 to show up. In the meantime, the officer, who will cite probable cause will now try his best to find something to stick you with. Maybe you have a parking ticket you didn’t know about? Now he has plenty of time to run a deeper search to find it, etc. I don’t like having my rights infringed, but sometimes it’s easier to cooperate and be firm. - " Go ahead, you won’t find anything though, and I am going to be late for work." Let the jerk poke around in your ashtray and get on with things, then to lose half your day while they prove conclusively and exhaustively that you are in fact innocent of everything they can think of. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/42 "2009-03-29T19:38:49Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Generally, I’d agree with this but the problem is that they can and will detain you for as long as they can if you refuse to cooperate. Maybe they “smell weed” or some other crap. Now they can detain you while you both hang out and wait for the k-9 to show up. In the meantime, the officer, who will cite probable cause will now try his best to find something to stick you with. Maybe you have a parking ticket you didn’t know about? Now he has plenty of time to run a deeper search to find it, etc. I don’t like having my rights infringed, but sometimes it’s easier to cooperate and be firm. - " Go ahead, you won’t find anything though, and I am going to be late for work." Let the jerk poke around in your ashtray and get on with things, then to lose half your day while they prove conclusively and exhaustively that you are in fact innocent of everything they can think of. And that can be true at times; you never can know for sure how any situation will play out. But I don’t think of letting them search my car as annoying but risk-free. Especially if they’re the unethical type you described, then I REALLY don’t want them poking around my stuff. Who knows what “evidence” they might find? A guy I know had a sandwich bag in his car and that was called drug paraphernalia. Would they do that to me? Probably not if it was just young-and-innocent-looking white girl me, but it wouldn’t surprise me if I was with a boyfriend. I’ve seen the difference in treatment first hand. Since you can’t know how it will turn out either way, I prefer to exercise my rights and not passively let them go around bullying people. If everyone was aware of and exercised their rights, the police would have to operate very differently. Not that that will ever happen, but at least I can do my part (if I’m ever put in the situation, that is…like I said, the police don’t mess with me [unless they’re checking my ID or discreetly asking me whether I’m with the scary man under my own free will or if he’s holding me captive]). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/43 "2009-03-29T20:03:30Z")
Teach your nephew that the **only** time you should ever attack, resist, or try to elude a cop is when you are absolutely certain he means to kill you. Which is extremely rare, even when you’re dealing with a dirty cop. Otherwise, cooperate; if you think the cop is abusing his authority, there are ways to deal with that (IAB complaints, lawsuits, etc.) **afterwards.** ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/44 "2009-03-30T01:27:33Z")
While I wouldn’t know where to begin answering the question, I do have a personal antidote from today I can share. I was in the mall sitting on a massage chair waiting for my folks to return from a manicure. A family came walking down the corridor, mom, dad with bags in tow. Kids skipping on the side, being kids. One girl jumped on the massage chair next to me. Dad, “Get up! Over here. See those cops outside?” Apparently the father thought it wise to teach his daughter not to be rambuctious around the police. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/45 "2009-03-30T03:54:46Z")
The above rule #1 is pretty good if and only if one knows one’s civil rights and how to assert them without breaking rule #1. Basically, the truth is that the police **are not** your friend. Their job is to collect evidence in order for the prosecutor to make a successful case. Sure, this case may not be against you, but there’s no general way to know this in advance. This does not mean they are the enemy, of course, but it is important to realize this gray area. Innocent people have been convicted, and restitution for wrongful conviction isn’t all that. It sucks to say it, but my feeling is: is respect the police, but never help them unless one feels the possible rewards outweigh the possible risks. Also, never consent to a search of anything. Ever. Do not forcibly stop them, but never consent. Search youtube for a somewhat silly but nice video, “Busted.” Waiving a civil right to avoid being late for work? Is this really what America has come to? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/46 "2009-03-30T04:45:29Z")
I agree with those who say what your nephew needs to know about the police depends a lot about where he lives, the color of his skin and his socio-economic class. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/47 "2009-03-30T07:00:16Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > The above rule #1 is pretty good if and only if one knows one’s civil rights and how to assert them without breaking rule #1. > > Basically, the truth is that the police **are not** your friend. Their job is to collect evidence in order for the prosecutor to make a successful case. Sure, this case may not be against you, but there’s no general way to know this in advance. This does not mean they are the enemy, of course, but it is important to realize this gray area. Innocent people have been convicted, and restitution for wrongful conviction isn’t all that. It sucks to say it, but my feeling is: is respect the police, but never help them unless one feels the possible rewards outweigh the possible risks. > > Also, never consent to a search of anything. Ever. Do not forcibly stop them, but never consent. Search youtube for a somewhat silly but nice video, “Busted.” Waiving a civil right to avoid being late for work? Is this really what America has come to? You have a civil right to not speak to the police if you don’t want to, but if you match the description of someone who committed murder 30 minutes ago, and you can prove it wasn’t you because you were on a live television show 30 minutes ago, are you really gonna just shut your mouth and let them arrest you? You aren’t “waiving a civil right” by proving to a cop that you are innocent of the crime they suspect you of. By the way (unrelated to the post I quoted), the previous link I gave suggesting that cops are less racist than the general population kind of got ignored. I think people ought to consider that before posting about how racist cops are. Sure, some of them are racist, but most are probably less racist than you are. I agree that racially-motivated abuse of police authority is terrible, but I disagree with the posters who suggest cops are somehow worse human beings than the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/48 "2009-03-30T11:24:17Z")
[From Chris Rock:](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65zXlytv01c) 1. Obey the law 2. Use common sense 3. Stop immediately 4. Turn that shit off 5. Be polite 6. Shut the fuck up 7. Get a white friend 8. Don’t ride with a mad woman ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/49 "2009-03-30T15:32:24Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > You have a civil right to not speak to the police if you don’t want to, but if you match the description of someone who committed murder 30 minutes ago, and you can prove it wasn’t you because you were on a live television show 30 minutes ago, are you really gonna just shut your mouth and let them arrest you? You aren’t “waiving a civil right” by proving to a cop that you are innocent of the crime they suspect you of. I am struggling to find out how this relates to my post. Obviously people want to clear their names if they are suspects. But it is this very thing that cops will use against people they think are guilty. Cops are not immune from bias; nervous behavior because you just found out about a murderer nearby could easily be interpreted as nervous behavior demonstrating you are a murderer, to use this rather extreme example, and the more you struggle to prove innocence, the more guilty you look. Your example of being on a TV show is not particularly indicative of everyday existence, and the extreme example of resembling a murderer they are in hot pursuit of stretches this even further. Clearly if you have an airtight alibi there is nothing to be concerned with. Let us therefore dispose of it. Additionally, demonstrating you were on a television show is pretty much 100% unrelated to consenting to a search, except in particular hypotheticals one could concoct which strain credulity. > [@](#): > > I agree that racially-motivated abuse of police authority is terrible, but I disagree with the posters who suggest cops are somehow worse human beings than the rest of us. I don’t know whether they’re worse or better. I know that it is pretty much one of the only jobs where you use force to get people to do things they don’t want to do, and I have to wonder why someone would be attracted to this kind of public service versus, say, being a fireman or teacher. I used to have an extremely negative opinion of the police, but I have reconsidered this position somewhat. Now I basically just wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/50 "2009-03-30T17:03:59Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > I don’t know whether they’re worse or better. I know that it is pretty much one of the only jobs where you use force to get people to do things they don’t want to do, and I have to wonder why someone would be attracted to this kind of public service versus, say, being a fireman or teacher. I used to have an extremely negative opinion of the police, but I have reconsidered this position somewhat. Now I basically just wonder. I don’t mean to hijack, but lots of police go to the fire department as soon as they’re accepted. It’s extremely difficult to get a firefighter job almost anywhere, and the police department is just another physically active civil-service position where people can serve while they’re trying to get on as a firefighter. People become cops for lots of reasons. Most cops I know do not like forcing people to do anything, but it’s part of the job. People aren’t attracted to the long thankless hours you spend on call at a hospital as a doctor, for example, but people still want the job. For the police department, the attractive parts are working outside, having people depend on and look up to you, being physically active, and helping to make the city a better place to be. The police screening process tries (imperfectly, admittedly) to weed out the people who just want to wave a gun around and be in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/51 "2009-03-31T01:44:03Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > I tend to believe the opposite, but after a few years of dealing with the dregs of society they start to become less likely to give someone the benefit of the doubt. > > When 75% of the people you deal with in a given day BELONG in prison no matter how cute, well dressed, well spoken, they might be, you start defaulting to arrest them all and let the courts sort it out. That’s kinda my point. Who WANTS to spend all day every day with the dregs of society? I am sure some police officers were born into a family that did it and saw their relations as role models, some few do it day in and day out to see the look on that little boys face when they return the stolen bike, I am not talking about that sliver of probability. I am talking about what I think it takes for most to WANT to risk life and limb everyday spent with the dregs of society. In my bones I could never shake the feeling that it took a combination of a bully complex and adrenaline junkie, and that is not someone I want in charge of our freedoms. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/52 "2009-03-31T06:31:25Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > That’s kinda my point. Who WANTS to spend all day every day with the dregs of society? I am sure some police officers were born into a family that did it and saw their relations as role models, some few do it day in and day out to see the look on that little boys face when they return the stolen bike, I am not talking about that sliver of probability. I am talking about what I think it takes for most to WANT to risk life and limb everyday spent with the dregs of society. In my bones I could never shake the feeling that it took a combination of a bully complex and adrenaline junkie, and that is not someone I want in charge of our freedoms. That’s quite a predicament you’ve just described. Who DO you want in charge of our freedoms? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/53 "2009-03-31T13:13:07Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > That’s quite a predicament you’ve just described. Who DO you want in charge of our freedoms? Plato, obviously! (Actually, I agree with you, **Sitnam**. But I also can’t figure a way out of that predicament.) ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/54 "2009-03-31T14:19:27Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Rule # 1 - In any encounter with police do exactly what they say when they say it. Don’t even think about getting one over on them. It will not end well for you or anyone who is with you. > > Rule # 2 - Yeah, they are human and imperfect, so are you. Just follow rule # 1. Actually, those should be commandments 11 and 12. Well stated. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/55 "2009-04-01T23:24:01Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > If you are not legally required to allow a cop to search you or your stuff, but you can recognize why a cop might have reason to suspect you of a crime, why not just allow the search? I don’t _know_ that I have nothing to hide. I just _think_ that I have nothing to hide. I can’t be sure that a friend of mine didn’t have a joint in his pocket the last time I gave him a ride somewhere, but it fell out and rolled under my seat, for example. Hell, I don’t even know if the previous owner used it for drug running and there’s a secret hiding place somewhere. Yeah, those aren’t likely, but the potential downside is huge. The potential upside of letting him search my car is… nothing. I might get out of there sooner, or I might not. Yes, the cop could have me sit there and wait for the K-9s, but he won’t necessarily. Consenting to the search might actually end up taking longer than not consenting. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/56 "2009-04-02T01:02:41Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > if you knew what they thought of the public it would give you chills. This bears repeating. The days when “to serve and protect” was a motto taken at face value are long past. Police today are trained to be street soldiers - to be the hammer that sees the nail everywhere, ready to anticipate violence and force and respond in kind. Look at their gear and their hair, and listen to their speech if you don’t believe it. They’re not part of civil society anymore; they’re a breed apart. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045/57 "2009-04-03T21:11:41Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > That’s quite a predicament you’ve just described. Who DO you want in charge of our freedoms? The first two types of people I described, I really wish there were more of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-i-teach-my-nephew-about-cops-authority-in-general/491045.md?page=2)