# What should Imus do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2007, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621 "2007-04-11T10:54:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/41 "2007-04-13T06:33:34Z")
Yeah, you “cited” a Nightline show from sometime about some persons. I have no idea why we’re having such a hard time finding it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/42 "2007-04-13T06:43:47Z")
[QUOTE=GuyNblueJeans] I stated in the previous post to it where I stood about doing that, should you care to read it. [/QUOTE] Sorry, you can’t make those kind of accusations and statements without backing it up here. And you can’t expect other people to do your work for you. You said: > [@](#): > > In fact, just before his retirement from said show, I watched where the guy was actually grilling 3 or 4 Caucasians from his perch, actuallly trying to make them think that they should feel ashamed and guilty over the fact that a higher power placed their souls in Caucasian bodies!! > > Specifically, he was trying to make some arguement that “you know that you guys would never want to be black even if you had millions of dollars”!! I say: Cite? I’m not saying you’re lying, I’m just asking for you to back up your statements with some sort of fact-based proof. Otherwise your arguement is meaningless. Especially since a few posts later you said “I didn’t keep it turned on long enough to watch too much of it…” > [@GuyNblueJeans](#): > > It was, I dunno, 5 or 6 months ago; not long before he went into retirement. FTR, Koppel went into retirement almost [17 months ago.](http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=entertainment&id=3490465) Back on topic: In regard to Imus showing up on satellite, couldn’t Stern do something to block him from getting a deal? Now that XM and Sirrius are joined, I would imagine Stern carries some weight with both providers, and I would imagine he wouldn’t look too kindly to his old terrestrial rival showing up, expecially if there was some threat of direct competition. ---
**Author:** ![GuyNblueJeans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@GuyNblueJeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuyNblueJeans)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/43 "2007-04-13T06:52:09Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] Ted Koppel did a show with Charlie Rose about racial inequality on PBS but that was a few years ago. I’m not sure that’s what **GuyNblueJeans** is talking about. [/QUOTE] Thanks for that!🙂 I knew that by writing what I wrote to you that it would give some folks a chance to slice and dice the comments to suit their own (lame) attempts to “let me have it,” thus avoiding the meaningful points I brought up in the previous post. But so be it, they are what they are. God Bless you Kristopher Kime! I’m fighting the good fight, buddy, but as you know, this is not only a dangerous world, but a wacky one full of you-know-whats :mad: ! ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/44 "2007-04-13T07:18:10Z")
[QUOTE=GuyNblueJeans] Thanks for that!🙂 I knew that by writing what I wrote to you that it would give some folks a chance to slice and dice the comments to suit their own (lame) attempts to “let me have it,” thus avoiding the meaningful points I brought up in the previous post. But so be it, they are what they are. God Bless you Kristopher Kime! I’m fighting the good fight, buddy, but as you know, this is not only a dangerous world, but a wacky one full of you-know-whats :mad: ! [/QUOTE] What on earth are you talking about? So you feel that someone asking you for a cite (in Great Debates, no less) somehow hinders your means of “fighting the good fight?” Do you think your points should all be taken at face value, just because you say so? Your post is your cite? No; and just because someone says “Prove it” doesn’t mean they’re attacking you or your “cause.” ---
**Author:** ![GuyNblueJeans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@GuyNblueJeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuyNblueJeans)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/45 "2007-04-13T07:20:13Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Yeah, you “cited” a Nightline show from sometime about some persons. I have no idea why we’re having such a hard time finding it. [/QUOTE] Yes, now I remember … it was show numbers 14, 789 on July 6, 1999, a Thursday, titled “Are blacks being denied fair treatment in the work place?” And show number 15,322 on March 1st, a Tuesday, titled, “Do white store owners treat black shoppers unfairly?” And then there was show number 15,481, on September 22nd, a Friday, titled, “Are blacks being denied coaching jobs in the NFL?” And then there was program number 15,943 on June 10th, a Monday, titled, “Are universities being fair to black students?” And then let’s not forget Nightline program number 16, 339 on May 8, a Tuesday, titled, “When will white people ever repay blacks for their enslavement?” And of course, who could ever forget show number 16,993 on Wednesday the 14th of March, title “Not enough black players in the NBA!” There. I hope that I’m now up to your standards of credibility (though somehow I question as to whether or not you’d make similar demands if I’d said that David Duke believes in ‘white separatism.’) :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![GuyNblueJeans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@GuyNblueJeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuyNblueJeans)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/46 "2007-04-13T07:29:25Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Lendervedder] What on earth are you talking about? So you feel that someone asking you for a cite (in Great Debates, no less) somehow hinders your means of “fighting the good fight?” Do you think your points should all be taken at face value, just because you say so? Your post is your cite? No; and just because someone says “Prove it” doesn’t mean they’re attacking you or your “cause.” [/QUOTE] I’ll make it simple: Type in Google the words “white inventors”. Now, if you can get your head around THAT (i.e. search results), then we can discuss it, okay? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/47 "2007-04-13T07:40:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, now I remember … it was show numbers 14, 789 on July 6, 1999, a Thursday, titled “Are blacks being denied fair treatment in the work place?” [Wrong…](http://www.abcnewsstore.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=customer.product&product_code=N990706%2001&category_code=28) > [@](#): > > There. I hope that I’m now up to your standards of credibility Absolutely not. > [@](#): > > I’ll make it simple: Type in Google the words “white inventors”. I just [Googled](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=white+inventors) it, and the first link to come up was [Black Inventors in the USA](http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/cot/t4w24blackinventors.htm). What is it you wanted me to wrap my head around now? ---
**Author:** ![GuyNblueJeans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@GuyNblueJeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuyNblueJeans)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/48 "2007-04-13T08:04:20Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Lendervedder] [Wrong…](http://www.abcnewsstore.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=customer.product&product_code=N990706%2001&category_code=28) Absolutely not. I just [Googled](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=white+inventors) it, and the first link to come up was [Black Inventors in the USA](http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/cot/t4w24blackinventors.htm). What is it you wanted me to wrap my head around now? [/QUOTE] LOL!!! 🙂 Nothing. I don’t want you to wrap your head around a thing! Take Care!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/49 "2007-04-13T09:07:35Z")
I found an old but fascinating report on a study of forty months of programming of _Nightline_. The report was published in 1989, but it is still revealing. I certainly hope that they managed to balance things a little better in later seasons. I can’t honestly say that I noticed how conservative it was. [Are You On the NIghtline Guest List?](http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2008) Some of the statistics: 80% of the guests from the United States were corporate representatives, officials in government positions or professionals. Only 5% were from the public interest sectors representing civil liberties, the environment, the peace movement, etc. Less than 2% were labor or racial leaders. Of the US guests, 92% were white, and 89% were male. > [@](#): > > The low visibility of women and minorities was attributed to the fact that they are grossly underrepresented in the elites from which _Nightline_ draws most of its guests. The review also mentioned that not many resident critics of the US were interviewed. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/50 "2007-04-13T09:24:30Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] He should say something like “If you don’t like me or my show anymore, stop watching it. But if enough people still want to watch it such that it’s economically feasible, let them.” [/QUOTE] And now that he’s fired, he can do his show over the Web. If people want to watch it, then fine. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/51 "2007-04-13T09:25:32Z")
> [@](#): > > **DSeid** : This does seem like hate speech. This is not “Kike” or “Nigger” or a variety of other epithets. This is the more mundane inappropriateness. Mundane? If someone called your fiance or sister or daughter a whore or any word that’s been used as a racial or sexual put down on national television and radio, how would you feel? Believe me, she would be likely to feel more intensely about it than you. They are just on the threshold of womanhood. Do you remember how sensitive you felt when you were 18, 19, or 20? Think about some of the questions we get from young people that age at the Dope. Maybe **Monstro** or **you with the face** will tell us their feelings about how it compares. We can’t filter it quite the same way. ---
**Author:** ![GuyNblueJeans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@GuyNblueJeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuyNblueJeans)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/52 "2007-04-13T09:37:16Z")
Nice going, ZOE! But as far as I can tell, it doesn’t prove or disprove my contention. In a way it’s kind of glaring that if the point of this organizations existence is to put a magnifying glass up and scrutinize, then how on earth could they possibly have not noticed how Koppel never had so much as one positive thing to say about Caucasian Americans during shows that related to the whole black/white issue. Hmm. I wonder where do they get their funding? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/53 "2007-04-13T10:39:28Z")
[QUOTE=GuyNblueJeans] Yes, now I remember … it was show numbers 14, 789 on July 6, 1999, a Thursday, titled “Are blacks being denied fair treatment in the work place?” And show number 15,322 on March 1st, a Tuesday, titled, “Do white store owners treat black shoppers unfairly?” And then there was show number 15,481, on September 22nd, a Friday, titled, “Are blacks being denied coaching jobs in the NFL?” And then there was program number 15,943 on June 10th, a Monday, titled, “Are universities being fair to black students?” And then let’s not forget Nightline program number 16, 339 on May 8, a Tuesday, titled, “When will white people ever repay blacks for their enslavement?” And of course, who could ever forget show number 16,993 on Wednesday the 14th of March, title “Not enough black players in the NBA!” There. I hope that I’m now up to your standards of credibility (though somehow I question as to whether or not you’d make similar demands if I’d said that David Duke believes in ‘white separatism.’) :dubious: [/QUOTE] Nobody is LOLing here except you. Since you were obviously wrong on your first cite, would you mind giving us the _years_ for the other cites so that we may look them up? It’s not a valid cite if nobody can see it, y’know. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/54 "2007-04-13T12:23:56Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Mundane? If someone called your fiance or sister or daughter a whore or any word that’s been used as a racial or sexual put down on national television and radio, how would you feel? Believe me, she would be likely to feel more intensely about it than you. They are just on the threshold of womanhood. Do you remember how sensitive you felt when you were 18, 19, or 20? Think about some of the questions we get from young people that age at the Dope. Maybe **Monstro** or **you with the face** will tell us their feelings about how it compares. We can’t filter it quite the same way. [/QUOTE] There is a big difference between insulting offensive and even racist and sexist speech and hate speech. Even if it is insulting those “just on the threshold of womenhood.” The firestorm that this grew into smacks of those who are all for free speech … so long as people only say that which I want to hear. My 18 year old sensitivies? Well I had grown up in a suburb near Skokie IL, and that was the year that the Nazis wanted to march there. I am Jewish and I argued that they should be allowed to march. And that Jewish groups should put on a circus at the same time to ilustrate what clowns those jokers were. **Monstro** has told us [what she felt](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=415426) when she first heard of this ugly comment. It was before this blew up and and the first that I had heard of it. > [@](#): > > It really hurts me as a black person, too. I have nappy hair, and I’m proud of it. And I’m proud that more and more young black women are ditching the creamy crack and going natural. These women have reclaimed “nappy”, making it connote beauty when for so long it was looked down upon. Imus must have been channeling Mister’s father from A Color Purple with that little gem. I hope somebody spits in his water. > > And I was flabbergasted when his side-kick brought up the Jigaboos vs. the Wannabees (which is not from Do the Right Thing, you stupid man, but from School Daze). They crossed into a subject that REALLY IS NOT FUNNY, especially since it’s clear which side they were rooting for. > > Finally, as a Rutgers alum, fuck you Imus and friends. Rutgers was the dark horse, the underdog no one thought could make it to the finals. And they did! They fucked up with Tennessee, but they deserve props nonetheless. If you couldn’t give them props, you could have at least left them the fuck alone and just talked about how awesome Tennessee’s team is. But no, you had to be bastards and make fun of the way they look, like the pencil-dicked, no-nut, cave-dwelling assholes you are. > > I’m not calling for Imus to apologize or be fired or be censored. I don’t intentionally listen to the show, so I don’t really care what he does. I’m just ticked off and disappointed. Is that alright, anti-offenderati people? Can I be ticked off and disappointed without being called “hypersensitive” or being accused of “playing the race card”? Her last paragraph deserves revisiting I think. That clearly had laid out the difference. Being offended and insulting the “pencil-dicked, no-nut, cave-dwelling asshole” is fine and understandable. But those who took it to the level of calling for him to not only apologize and to be censored but to be fired … that took it beyond and into the level that deserves contempt itself. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/55 "2007-04-13T12:50:40Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Lendervedder] Now that XM and Sirrius are joined [/QUOTE] They’ve proposed a merger, but it isn’t a done deal. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/56 "2007-04-13T14:15:07Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] But those who took it to the level of calling for him to not only apologize and to be censored but to be fired … that took it beyond and into the level that deserves contempt itself. [/QUOTE] I agree that the apology rhetoric was overblown, but why do you think calls for his firing were so contemptible? The man has had a long career and this is not the first time he’s said needlessly offensive things on the air. He’s not entitled to anything. And honestly, if MSNBC and CBS had just fired him from the get go, they could have spared us a week and a half of agony from seeing his Andrew Jackson mug on TV. They dragged their feet so they could keep airing the ongoing spectacle, and this is why we’re still talking about the man, as if he really even matters in the grand scheme of things. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/57 "2007-04-13T15:39:08Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] The way I see it, he has two options: He can tack left, take his punishment, try to ignore Al and Jesse, and concentrate on promoting Bush Hating guests and others in his media elite circle. They can’t pull a guy like that off the airwaves can they? Or he could tack right… … take his punisment, refuse to be lectured to by the Nappy Headed Race Hustlers mentioned above and call for the word “Ho” to be stricken from the english language and all “entertainment” using that word to be pulled from the shelves. Whaddayathink? [/QUOTE] Imus needs to play the Money Card. He should pay someone or some group a lot of money from his personal account. Even though there will be purist protestations that it’s not about money and that money can’t help, the ole green salve will make restitution faster than the ole verbal grovel. Losing his income won’t count since he’s so near the grave anyway–it will be seen as simply taking the opportunity to retire. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/58 "2007-04-13T15:48:34Z")
[QUOTE=GuyNblueJeans] Thanks for that!🙂 I knew that by writing what I wrote to you that it would give some folks a chance to slice and dice the comments to suit their own (lame) attempts to “let me have it,” thus avoiding the meaningful points I brought up in the previous post. But so be it, they are what they are. God Bless you Kristopher Kime! I’m fighting the good fight, buddy, but as you know, this is not only a dangerous world, but a wacky one full of you-know-whats :mad: ! [/QUOTE] Honestly\*\* GuyNblueJeans\*\* I was just looking around to see if I could find what you were talking about. I doubt if we’ll agree but I was interested in finding out what you were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/59 "2007-04-13T17:17:16Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] I agree that the apology rhetoric was overblown, but why do you think calls for his firing were so contemptible? The man has had a long career and this is not the first time he’s said needlessly offensive things on the air. He’s not entitled to anything. [/QUOTE] Oh without question he is not entitled to anything more than any of the rest of us. And from what I have heard I have missed nothing by never having listened to him. No one ever tried to force me to either. I could avoid him completely just by listening to my usual stations. And did wthout any effort at all. Just like I never hear what Howard Stern rants about or a countless other radio personalities. But to say that because _I_ (or you, or Rev Al or anyone else) do not like what he says that he should therefore be censored so that those who choose to subject themselves to his drivel cannot make that choice any more, to the extreme point of removing his forum to say it, because and exclusively because I or we find it offensive speech … that is contemptible. Mind you I have moderated a bit since my days of youth. I once said even extreme hate speech like that of the Nazis should be allowed without any fetters. I now recognize some limits. True hate speech should be restricted off of the airwaves. But only true hate speech, not just offensive speech. In **Monstro** ’s thread some goofus tried to claim that calling Imus’s words racist and sexist was an affront on freedom of speech and **Monstro** and others rightfully slapped him down. Mocking Imus, insulting Imus, ignoring Imus, expressing outrage at Imus … all of these are understanable and none of those options infringe on the rights of others to hear that which I find to be offensive. Getting him fired does. It is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621/60 "2007-04-13T18:36:28Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] But to say that because _I_ (or you, or Rev Al or anyone else) do not like what he says that he should therefore be censored so that those who choose to subject themselves to his drivel cannot make that choice any more, to the extreme point of removing his forum to say it, because and exclusively because I or we find it offensive speech … that is contemptible. [/quote] Having him removed from his job != Censorship. Freedom of speech and censorship have nothing to do with this. Imus is not entitled to his job and his devoted fans are not entitled to hearing his schtick either. No one is entitled to anything. This includes the people who have complained about him. If I go to a restaurant and one of the waiters disrespects me by calling me a racial slur or deliberately fucking with my food, sure I have the freedom to not patronize that restaurant ever again. I also have the freedom to complain to the restaurant management and ask that they do something about their employee or else face the economic consequences of a negative word-of-mouth campaign. Neither one of these options strike me as being more or less contemptible than the other. Its market pressures at work, just in a way that we don’t normally think of it. > [@](#): > > Getting him fired does. It is wrong. I still don’t get why complaining is not wrong, but “getting him” fired is. Imus’ employers ultimately are the only ones who can fire him. So if you think that’s unfair, blame it on them. Not the people he offended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-imus-do/399621.md?page=4)