I’d counter that, depending on projected course of study, none of those are necessary for getting into or succeeding at college either.
You (and many others) seem to have the impression that any content matter that is not directly applicable to day to day life is relevant and important for those going to college, and is equally not relevant and important for those who will not go to college.
I grant that the singular focus of maximizing college admissions chances that has taken over our school systems is a problem. And it’s important to offer differentiated pathways to high school graduation that allow for students to lean into their individual strengths and interests. But I don’t think that the value of reading Thomas Hardy or learning about the War of Spanish Succession (or any other arbitrary examples of history/literature/culture) stems from the post-high school career paths of the students.
Critical thinking is already being taught in schools… in our English classes, and in our history classes. We need to focus on arts and literature for all students. Not because everyone needs to remember more trivia that they “won’t need” in their professional lives, but because learning how to read, how to research, how to evaluate sources, and how to communicate and evolve one’s own thoughts is necessary for an engaged and responsible public life regardless of career.
Critical thinking skills with plenty of real-life examples of frauds, scams, dubious product advertisements and non-believable political and scientific claims. It would include foundational skills in detecting logical fallacies.
I feel like there’s a fantasy that some folks believe in that goes something like this:
“If only school had taught people exactly why X is a bad idea, no one would be doing X anymore.” Or, to put it more bluntly, “When people make X decision against their better interest, it is because they don’t know it’s against their interest because school never taught them as a child to not do X.”
In this thread, as a result of that thinking, we have positions like:
“If only schools taught students about payday loans, people would stop taking payday loans.”
“If only schools taught students about how interest and savings work, people would all start making smart long-term financial choices.”
I find it wildly unlikely that a unit on payday loans would have any statistically meaningful effect on the choices students make years down the road, in the same way that I find it wildly unlikely that a unit on nutrition is going to have a statistical impact on the population’s potato chip consumption levels.
Some things are not about the knowledge, but are rather about cultural learning and behavioral practice.
This is indeed the problem for me. One of my best friends in High School was pretty smart and got decent grades, but was academically extremely incurious. He did not read for pleasure and in fact had read only one book outside of class his whole life until age 18 (a biography of baseball coach Billy Martin). He got into college, kicked around three schools in two years, transferring from one to the other. Then, suddenly, he became fascinated with the world - started devouring world literature in massive clumps and went on to get a graduate degree.
It’s just really hard to tell when things will click for someone and I’d hate to single-track kids in the wrong direction. Remember pediatricians say the human brain is not fully mature until your early to mid-twenties. Then there’s also this:
I fully agree with this. Education, certainly pre-college, should not just be about practical careerism. Also a more general exposure to the arts and culture gives young minds a chance to grab onto something that can click. For every person that despised Shakespeare in school, another may get motivated by him (like two of my nieces). I couldn’t stand Charles Dickens when it was introduced in HS - one of my fellow students adored him and went on to became a writer.
But isn’t sex education a big reason why teen pregnancies and STDs are down?
The approach won’t work on every student, but it will work on many. And there will always be some students who genuinely didn’t know how bad payday loans are, or hadn’t heard of logical fallacies before.
Yes… and sex ed in high school is catching folks exactly when many of them are making decisions around sex. They’re talking in school about something they can consider that very night. Insurance, personal finances, 401ks, and bad financial instruments… these are skills and ideas with massively deferred application.
Anti-smoking campaigns are not classroom curriculum, so I’m not sure how that’s relevant. If anything, it indicates that it takes ongoing and wide spread social pressure to get folks to make good long term choices against short term satisfaction. Smoking was never a problem that schools were going to be able to solve on their own.
Yes, in 10th grade I had a hole in my schedule and end up filling it with an intro to computer programming class. I had been vaguely interested in computers but never considered them seriously. It turned out I had a knack for it, and did really well. Well, after numerous twists I eventually had a long career as a software engineer.
My anecdotal evidence from the high schoolers I know — and I know a lot — is that teen pregnancies are down because kids aren’t meeting up in person. They “meet” their friends online, on their phones, alone in their bedrooms. For two people to make a baby they have to be in the same room, and that’s not happening.
As dysfunctional as that society was, at least they spent time with other humans remotely. We seem to be trending towards a future of AI companions and lovers.
Aren’t the Solarian children raised by robots because other humans are too disgusted to be around them?
And (spoiler alert for Foundation and Earth) when searching for Earth and coming across Solaria, the explorers learn Solaria’s ultimate fate: they engineer themselves into post-humans with both male and female reproductive organs, build a gazillion robots, and reduce the human population to just 1, so they can be free of ever having to interact with another human ever again. (The single Solarian is replaced after their death by a new Solarian child raised entirely by robots).
I’d forgotten the kids were raised by robots. Though I don’t think Asimov saw that as such a bad thing - wasn’t one of his early stories about a kid having his robot companion/nursemaid taken away and being miserable without him, and eventually the parents relent and hire the robot back from the company?
Unfortunately, we have discovered no way to implement anything like the laws of robotics in practice - and how would AI even know what was harmful to humans?
This raises another point for the thread: never mind YouTube videos, people in the future can ask AI how to do their taxes, or have AI do their taxes for them. They can ask AI if they need to know how to fix something, or how the courts work. There will be much less need for specific practical knowledge when you can ask AI any question at any time.
Actually, I was slightly off on this. There are 1,200 Solarians left, spread out thinly in individual estates across the planet, each attended by millions of robots. They don’t ever meet their own kids though.
The fact that there areultiple Solarians makes one wonder why they needed to genetically engineer themselves into parthenogenesis rather than just using artificial insemination.
On the positive front two of the worst offenders, a Robotics coach and the college guidance counselor have both been forced out in the last couple of years.
I remember reading that as a kid. And thinking that it was the stupidest thing I had ever read, because going to school was definitely not fun and how could this Asimov idiot think that it possibly could be.