# What should somebody vote if he doesn't agree 100% with the party line? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104 "2004-09-26T01:41:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/1 "2004-09-26T01:41:25Z")
For example, suppose there’s somebody who is pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro gun and pro death penalty. The first who are traditionally supported by democrats while the other two by republicans. Now what should that person vote? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/2 "2004-09-26T01:44:38Z")
The answer is that you should vote Democrat. What was the question again? ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/3 "2004-09-26T01:47:45Z")
This is one of the joys of not being a member of a political party: Vote as you please. Vote for who you think will be the best candidate for the office in question. ---
**Author:** ![Ashkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Ashkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashkicker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/4 "2004-09-26T01:49:19Z")
I generally stay out of Great Debates but here is my take on your question. I didn’t vote in the last election. My dad’s simple wisdom and not wanting to push _his_ political views off on me said this…“It doesn’t matter who you vote for, just get out there and exercise your right to vote”. So I registered when I went to update my license and it was very easy to do. See you at the polls come November. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/5 "2004-09-26T01:56:16Z")
> [@Ashkicker](#): > > “It doesn’t matter who you vote for, just get out there and exercise your right to vote”. Just please do us the courtesy of having at least a vaguely informed _opinion_ when you do it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/6 "2004-09-26T01:58:14Z")
Simple answer: It depends on which issues are more important to that voter. It also depends on what issues are going to be the most debated in the coming years. For example, if abortion rights and the death penalty are the most important issues on your agenda, and the political climate is such that it looks like abortion rights are going to be heavily challenged soon, but that the death penalty is on the back burner, you might want to support the candidate for abortion rights. It also VERY much depends on the individual candidate. He or she may vary a good deal from the official party line. Research the candidate, not just the party. It also nearly goes without saying that he or she also might be a complete putz, totally aside from the hot-button issues. If you’ve got a man in the running who’s platform follows your beliefs to a T, but shows no financial or political acumen, is a horrible speaker, charges hookers to his credit card\*, makes fun of small children in public, goes on week-long drunks, beats his wife, etc., you may decide it’s better to hold your nose and vote for someone else. \*Jerry Springer did this, in Cincinnati, I’m told. ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/7 "2004-09-26T02:03:45Z")
Easy question - they should vote Republican, and then use the easy to get legal guns to make people change their minds on the other issues. Next question please. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/8 "2004-09-26T02:04:05Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > \*Jerry Springer did this, in Cincinnati, I’m told. Just googled it. It was a check, apparently, not a credit card. ---
**Author:** ![Ashkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Ashkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashkicker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/9 "2004-09-26T02:04:26Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > Just please do us the courtesy of having at least a vaguely informed _opinion_ when you do it. 🙂 What so you can bitch at me if my man gets in office and screws everything up? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ashkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Ashkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashkicker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/10 "2004-09-26T02:07:08Z")
> [@Ashkicker](#): > > What so you can bitch at me if my man gets in office and screws everything up? 😃 Wait a minute maybe he’s already in office screwing things up. :smack: just joking 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/11 "2004-09-26T02:09:39Z")
> [@Ashkicker](#): > > I generally stay out of Great Debates but here is my take on your question. I didn’t vote in the last election. My dad’s simple wisdom and not wanting to push _his_ political views off on me said this…“It doesn’t matter who you vote for, just get out there and exercise your right to vote”. So I registered when I went to update my license and it was very easy to do. See you at the polls come November. Well, that’s what I was thinking. Since I can’t agree completely with any of the two parties, then I shouldn’t vote at all. I can’t understand why non-voters are regarded so lowly in the US. In Greece, everybody is by law obliged to vote. But they also have the choice to vote “white”, ie. a piece of blank paper (we still have old style voting with envelopes and such) . In the US, the equivalent of “white” is not going to vote at all. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/12 "2004-09-26T06:35:01Z")
I’d be more concerned about folks who _do_ agree 100% with a political party line, as that indicates a lack of critical thinking skills and the inability to analyze issues objectively. But then, I’m one who those folks who thinks “Dittohead” is an insult, instead of a term of endearment… ---
**Author:** ![chaparralv8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@chaparralv8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaparralv8)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/13 "2004-09-26T15:07:21Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > For example, suppose there’s somebody who is pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro gun and pro death penalty. The first who are traditionally supported by democrats while the other two by republicans. Now what should that person vote? 😕 Actually, from the looks of it, that voter should go vote for the Libertarian candidate for President, and vote a split ticket based mostly on their own opinions for every other office. We’re not entirely constrained by the two-party system. If you’re indifferent towards both candidates even after careful consideration, and you vote for a minor-party candidate who doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of winning, it still affects the outcome - neither candidate got your vote, so they can’t rely on it next time either. On the other hand, a voter can also go and decide which issues are most important to him and vote for the candidate who he agrees with on these - you don’t need to agree with a candidate wholeheartedly to want to show support for him. He can also make a decision that isn’t based on these issues - he could decide that the government’s status quo is fine for now and support the candidate of the party in power, or vote for throwing the bums out and support the candidate of the opposition. Many Libertarians this election are coming out for Sen. Kerry, a candidate who many of them most assuredly disagree with on many occasions, for the purpose of creating a split government. These don’t typically get much done - and as Libertarians by definition want a smaller government, they can forestall the growth of the government that way. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/14 "2004-09-26T15:32:15Z")
Here’s an answer that goes straight at the heart of the problem: If you’re not satisfied with the choices offered by the two-party system, you should **work to replace the two-party system with a multiparty system.** A real one, where you have real choices and no one party or pair of parties predominates in the field. You should not necessarily vote for third-party candidates, because with our system as it is now that’s a waste of your vote; but you should vote for any candidate who promises to: 1. Liberalize ballot-access requirements, changing the system prevalent in most states where the Republicrat nominees get on the ballot more or less automatically while third-party candidates have to gather thousands of petition signatures; 2. Establish instant-runoff voting systems so a third-party candidate can run for office without playing the role of a “spoiler” or “opposition-splitter”; 3. Legalize “ballot fusion” or “cross-endorsement” (currently illegal in all but ten states), allowing one candidate to run as the nominee of more than one party, so that smaller parties can pool their strength by joining forces, or can influence the larger parties’ policies by using the leverage of granting or withholding their co-nomination of major-party candidates; 4. Introduce proportional representation, aka full representation, in all multi-member policymaking bodies, so that minor parties can win seats in Congress and the state legislatures and county commissions in proportion to their share of support among the voters even if they do not have enough support concentrated in any one electoral district to elect a single representative. And if no candidate in the field is promising any of those things, you should write them letters encouraging them to do so, and you should join organizations that are working to introduce these reforms, such as: 1. The Center for Voting and Democracy – [http://www.fairvote.org](http://www.fairvote.org). It’s America’s leading action group for voting reforms, particularly instant-runoff voting and proportional representation The links page ([http://www.fairvote.org/links.htm](http://www.fairvote.org/links.htm)) will direct you to PR and IRV advocacy groups in your own state, if there are any. (At present there are such groups in California, Illinois, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New York, Utah, Washington – and, most recently, Florida, although the link for Citizens for Instant Runoff Voting in Florida – [http://www.cirv.org](http://www.cirv.org) – has not yet been added to the CV&D links page.) 2. The Instant Runoff Project – [http://www.instantrunoff.org](http://www.instantrunoff.org) 3. [InstantRunoff.com](http://InstantRunoff.com) – [http://www.instantrunoff.com/](http://www.instantrunoff.com/) 4. The New Majority Education Fund – [http://www.nmef.org](http://www.nmef.org) This organization works for “ballot fusion” or “cross-endorsement,” explained above. This was a tactic used by minor parties (e.g., the Populists, the Grangers, the Prohibitionists) with some effect in the late 19th Century to pool their strength or to pull the major parties in their directions. However, in that period such “combination tickets” were outlawed by Republicrat legislatures in many states for the express purpose of crushing third parties (you can read the shameful story in Chapter 9 of _Spoiling for a Fight: Third-Party Politics in America,_ by Micah L. Sifry (New York: Routledge, 2002) – a book which is worth reading if you’re interested in this topic at all, which you are or you wouldn’t be looking into this thread). You might also be interested in the following relevant GD threads: “A multiparty system is better than a two-party system!” > **[A multiparty system is better than a two-party system!](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269169)** > > I have started, or contributed to, several GD threads about electoral reforms that would open the field in American politics to parties other than the Republicrats: “What do you think about proportional representation in the US House of Reps?” ... “What do you think about proportional representation in the US House of Reps?” > **[What do you think about proportional representation in the US House of Reps?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261571)** > > What do you think about proportional representation in the House of Reps? Do you think this is a decent overview of how Proportional Representation can alter the pattern of two party politics? WikiWisdom Overview of Proportional Representation ... “Instant-runoff voting: avoiding the third-party “spoiler” problem” > **[Instant-runoff voting: avoiding the third-party "spoiler" problem](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261969)** > > Since there’s a GD thread going on right now, “What do you think about proportional representation in the US House of Reps?” (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261571), I thought I would take this opportunity to open a debate on a... “Yet another electoral-system reform: “ballot fusion,” or “cross-endorsement”” > **[Yet another electoral-system reform: "ballot fusion," or "cross-endorsement"](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=262650)** > > Right now we’ve got two threads going in GD on issues of fundamental reforms to the American electoral systems: “What do you think about proportional representation in the US House of Reps?” –... “Should the U.S. adopt alternative, pro-multipartisan voting systems?” [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=170368](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=170368)? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/15 "2004-09-26T21:44:32Z")
Actually, I have a hard time finding a candidate with whom I agree even 50%, which would be a good excuse not to vote at all. But in this particular election, one of the candidates wants a Constitutional amendment declaring me a second-class citizen. That makes me \*\*really \*\*want him removed from office (not that there aren’t plenty of other reasons). Of course, the other asshole – er, candidate – would make me a second-class citizen only if I lived in his particular state. Not much difference as I see it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/16 "2004-09-26T21:51:45Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Of course, the other asshole – er, candidate – would make me a second-class citizen only if I lived in his particular state. Not much difference as I see it. There is a practical difference. If Kerry becomes president, the federal anti-gay-marriage amendment idea drops out of sight. Without a president keeping it alive, there’s very little chance Congress will ever send it out to the states. Not that they would ratify it. But I trust you see the value in killing the whole thing dead as soon as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/17 "2004-09-27T16:10:51Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I’d be more concerned about folks who _do_ agree 100% with a political party line, as that indicates a lack of critical thinking skills and the inability to analyze issues objectively. Amen! And when you consider that there are a _multitude_ of positions a person could hold on just about any major issue, it’d be surprising indeed to find a candidate or party whose positions exactly matched your own. That’s why I don’t pay too much attention to political parties, and I try to vote for candidates that I respect, trust, and believe will do a good job in the office for which they’re running. I’d want them to have similar basic worldview and values as me. But if they hold some opinions that don’t match up with mine, _maybe I’m the one who’s wrong_. Maybe they’re smarter, wiser, or better informed than I am. Oh wait, we’re talking about politicians here. Maybe I’m expecting too much… ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/18 "2004-09-27T17:10:33Z")
Good advice from Robert Heinlein: > [@](#): > > If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for … but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/19 "2004-09-27T17:19:16Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > For example, suppose there’s somebody who is pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro gun and pro death penalty. The first who are traditionally supported by democrats while the other two by republicans. Now what should that person vote? 😕 I’m in exactly this situation. I mean, I’m not **deeply** concerned with any of these for issues, as I’m neither a pregnant woman, nor gay, nor a gun owner, nor a convict - but my preferences on each issue are as you put forth. I’m voting Democrat. Why? Well, because I think Bush is bad, and thus don’t want to throw my vote to a third-party candidate. (Besides, most Libertarian candidates are a little … irrational-seeming, to me.) I also think that the Death Penalty isn’t even on the radar this year, and that gun rights in this country aren’t going to be taken away in the next 50 years barring some truly epidemic outbursts of gun violence. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104/20 "2004-09-27T19:21:07Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > If you’ve got a man in the running who’s platform follows your beliefs to a T, but shows no financial or political acumen, is a horrible speaker, charges hookers to his credit card\*, makes fun of small children in public, goes on week-long drunks, beats his wife, etc., you may decide it’s better to hold your nose and vote for someone else. > \*Jerry Springer did this, in Cincinnati, I’m told. While Springer was a member of the Cincinnati city council, a police raid on a brothel revealed a _check_ written by Srpinger. _Then_, he was elected mayor. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-somebody-vote-if-he-doesnt-agree-100-with-the-party-line/266104.md?page=2)