# What should the Democrats do about all the "praise" from Al Queda and Iran? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 11, 2006, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986 "2006-11-11T07:13:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/41 "2006-11-12T02:55:47Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] YThey’re working to get the U.S. out of Iraq [/QUOTE] Why on earth would they be working to abolish such a great recruiting inducement? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/42 "2006-11-12T02:58:32Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] But be that as it may, it’s telling that you’ve had to go back sixty and seventy years to try to come up with examples of militarily strong Democrat presidents. [/QUOTE] Fortunately, it hasn’t been necessary. Though Kennedy, Johnson, and Carter all seem to have staved off the Evil Empire well enough. At least, I’m not typing in Russian. I’ve no doubt that had Gore been president for 9-11, the invasion of Afghanistan would still have occurred, and, without the distractions occassioned by invading Iraq for personal reasons, it would have been more successfull. I equate military strength with the ability to protect ourselves if we are attacked; I’m not sure what you equate it with. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/43 "2006-11-12T03:03:16Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Fortunately, it hasn’t been necessary. Though Kennedy, Johnson, and Carter all seem to have staved off the Evil Empire well enough. At least, I’m not typing in Russian. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Did you forget about that little deal in Sotheast Asia that was the direct result of Kennedy & Johnson? Carter had great success with Iran as well. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/44 "2006-11-12T03:07:08Z")
[QUOTE=flickster] Did you forget about that little deal in Sotheast Asia that was the direct result of Kennedy & Johnson? [/quote] I don’t consider fighting a war for no good reason to be a sign of military strength. Also, you forgot Eisenhower and Nixon. > [@](#): > > Carter had great success with Iran as well. And that’s a better point. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/45 "2006-11-12T03:07:28Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Ah, yes…more superior leftist arrogance aimed at the average American voter. Good on ya, **David** , keep it up. This kind of attitude is sure to help my side come 2008. [/QUOTE] I guess you haven’t seen the many polls that show that far too many US voters don’t know geograph, don’t know history, and fall for claptrap like, “If you’re not with us you’re against us.” or even “Mission Accomplished.” And you yourself said > [@](#): > > The whole world over knows the Democrats historically are weak, wishy-washy …" Now I notice that you said “historically” which illustrates one of my points about the average US voter. You probably don’t realize it but **all** of the wars since the Civil War, until the last two against Iraq, either started during Democratic administration or were strongly urged by Democrats. Start with the Spanish-American War. Wiki has[this article on it.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish-American_War) From the article > [@](#): > > There were, however, very real pressures pushing toward war within Cuba. Faced with defeat, a lack of money, and resources to continue fighting Spanish occupation, Cuban revolutionary and future president Tomás Estrada Palma … deftly negotiated and propagandized their cause in the U.S. Congress. > > Humanitarian interests dominated American opinion. President McKinley and House Speaker Thomas Reed worked hard to calm the mood, as did many Republicans, **but the pressure from Democrats across the country steadily increased.** [bold added] The US entered WWI when Woodrow Wilson (Democrat) asked Congress to declare war against Germany. FDR constantly pushed measures that brought the US into the war at sea in the Atlantic over the objections of Senators like Borah (R. ID), Vandenberg (R Mich) and Gerald Nye (R NDAK) JFK, Democrat, first expanded the US role in Vietnam. Lyndon Johnson, Democrat, really expanded it, and Richard M. Nixon, Republican, cut-and-ran. Like I said, the average voter doesn’t know a lot of history and you proved it. As to the “superior attitude” I think I know more history than the average because it has always seemed like a story to me and I like stories. But I’m really a diletante at it and I don’t know nearly enough. As to the “the superior leftist arrogance”, I’m not running for office so I don’t give a damn what you think of me and I don’t represent the Democratic party attitude. And, of course, referring to Democrats as historically “wishy-washy” with regard to war isn’t an intimation of your superior Republican guts? And you couldn’t even get that right. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/46 "2006-11-12T03:21:45Z")
[QUOTE=mstay] Not enough for **SA** , apparently… [/QUOTE] Yep…that’s right! Just not enough damn people killed anywhere for my liking! No, siree! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/47 "2006-11-12T03:26:04Z")
Well, you don’t seem to think he was a strong, brute man. I was just arguing for him. It takes guts and courage to order the bombings of thousands. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/48 "2006-11-12T03:26:06Z")
Okay, I’ll say this and then I’m gonna have to go. I hope that the lofty views you have of the incoming Democratic congress prove themselves to be accurate. If the Dems can do an effective job of containing terrorism and also protecting this country from another 9/11, I’ll revise my opinion of them upward a hundredfold. But in order to do so, they’re gonna have to break the mold and behave in a way that is quite uncharacteristic of any Democratic-controlled congress of my lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/49 "2006-11-12T05:50:30Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Okay, I’ll say this and then I’m gonna have to go. I hope that the lofty views you have of the incoming Democratic congress prove themselves to be accurate. If the Dems can do an effective job of containing terrorism and also protecting this country from another 9/11, I’ll revise my opinion of them upward a hundredfold. But in order to do so, they’re gonna have to break the mold and behave in a way that is quite uncharacteristic of any Democratic-controlled congress of my lifetime. [/QUOTE] Did I miss the part where those Democrats in Congress under Reagan let the Commies take over? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/50 "2006-11-12T05:54:07Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Okay, I’ll say this and then I’m gonna have to go. I hope that the lofty views you have of the incoming Democratic congress prove themselves to be accurate. If the Dems can do an effective job of containing terrorism and also protecting this country from another 9/11, I’ll revise my opinion of them upward a hundredfold. But in order to do so, they’re gonna have to break the mold and behave in a way that is quite uncharacteristic of any Democratic-controlled congress of my lifetime. [/QUOTE] I don’t know how good a job they’ll do, but they couldn’t do any worse than GWB. Gilligan couldn’t. (And yes I am aware that Bush is still President, and the executive branch still controls national security policy. But at least now there’ll hopefully be some oversight.) ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/51 "2006-11-12T08:35:00Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Okay, I’ll say this and then I’m gonna have to go. I hope that the lofty views you have of the incoming Democratic congress prove themselves to be accurate. If the Dems can do an effective job of containing terrorism and also protecting this country from another 9/11, I’ll revise my opinion of them upward a hundredfold. But in order to do so, they’re gonna have to break the mold and behave in a way that is quite uncharacteristic of any Democratic-controlled congress of my lifetime. [/QUOTE] What lofty views? The OP asked what the Democrats _should_ do and that’s what my posts were about. I don’t believe that anywhere it was predicted what they _would_ do. What I hope is that they won’t adopt the ideas of their most radical members as the Republicans have. Unless you don’t consider the defense of torture, secret prisons, and the restriction of the right of _habeas corpus_ radical steps. As to the the Democratic congresses in your lifetime (which doesn’t span much of the history of the US involvement in warfare), I don’t believe any of them had any pressing cause to take up the matter of domestic terrorism. There were three serious terrorist attacks, Oklahoma City, the first bombing of the World Trade Center, and the destruction of Pan Am 103 over Scotland. I believe the perpetrators of all three incidents were identified quite rapidly under existing laws and without torturing anyone. In fact, Al Qaeda was identified as the perpetrator of 9/11 under the then existing laws which was way before all of the radical steps like the USA Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act. I don’t understand how anyone can retain faith that an administration that has demonstrated ineptitude in Iraq will somehow be the effective protector against terrorist attacks. But that’s just me, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/52 "2006-11-12T08:43:26Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] I don’t agree that the praise from Al Qaeda, _et al_ should be ignored by Democratic leaders. The US public has been told over and over by their guru, GW, that a victory for Democrats is a victory for the terrorists, and I think many of them believe it. [/QUOTE] There are some people that believe this, sure, but it didn’t seem to help Bush on Tuesday. I think the Democrats basically do need to ignore this. They should reject any praise from Iran, Al Qaeda, North Korea _et al_ and then go about their business of creating sensible policies to deal with these countries. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/53 "2006-11-12T08:55:37Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] There are some people that believe this, sure, but it didn’t seem to help Bush on Tuesday. [/quote] True, but the Republican candidates seemed to still get a lot of votes. > [@](#): > > I think the Democrats basically do need to ignore this. They should reject any praise from Iran, Al Qaeda, North Korea _et al_ and then go about their business of creating sensible policies to deal with these countries. I believe we agree that such praise should be disavowed and then the Democrats should follow a non-radical course of action. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/54 "2006-11-12T09:05:19Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] I believe we agree that such praise should be disavowed and then the Democrats should follow a non-radical course of action. [/QUOTE] Right. This thread has demonstrated why, yet again, it’s pointless to chart a political course based on what the terrorists want. You can argue equally well that the terrorists want the Republicans to win or the Democrats. That way madness lies. And at the risk of being laughed at- if we try to vote based on what the terrorists want, the terrorists win. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/55 "2006-11-12T13:41:17Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] As to the the Democratic congresses in your lifetime (which doesn’t span much of the history of the US involvement in warfare), I don’t believe any of them had any pressing cause to take up the matter of domestic terrorism. There were three serious terrorist attacks, Oklahoma City, the first bombing of the World Trade Center, and the destruction of Pan Am 103 over Scotland. I believe the perpetrators of all three incidents were identified quite rapidly under existing laws and without torturing anyone. In fact, Al Qaeda was identified as the perpetrator of 9/11 under the then existing laws which was way before all of the radical steps like the USA Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act. [/QUOTE] We have always had the ability to catch wrongdoers after they strike. The Patriot Act was put in place to enhance our ability to intervene prior to the act taking place instead of after hundred or thousands of lives were lost. You also omitted multiple ME terrorist strikes against embassies, military barracks, and the US Cole. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/56 "2006-11-12T14:24:09Z")
[QUOTE=flickster] We have always had the ability to catch wrongdoers after they strike. The Patriot Act was put in place to enhance our ability to intervene prior to the act taking place instead of after hundred or thousands of lives were lost. You also omitted multiple ME terrorist strikes against embassies, military barracks, and the US Cole. [/QUOTE] I guess that’s the difference in approaches. I think that some risk is acceptable in order to preserve civil liberties, as in any other crime. I also believe that by diplomacy we could get the cooperation of other nations in intelligence investigations into such activities. I don’t think restricting civil liberties should be the first thought to spring to mind in combatting terrorism. You mention the loss of lives. I’m glad we con’t take the same approach to the much greater loss of life as a result of automobile accidents. If we did cars to be limited to 15 mph in the country and spaced no closer that one per 100 yards. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/57 "2006-11-12T14:34:52Z")
I hit a key and posted prematurely. Yes, such terrorist attacks are terrible and result in lives lost. They are also dramatic as opposed to the just as real other dangers to life and limb. Right-wingers always bring up the “you can’t have perfect safety” whenever industrial safety rules are proposed, but seem to want perfect protection against terrorist attack. A constant stream of industrial accidents is the rule, terrorist attacks are the exception. And, bad as they are, terrorist attacks do not threaten the national security. They threaten to kill individual people. That’s bad but I don’t think it calls for mobilizing the military, going to war and revamping our legal system so as to make it less protective of civil rights. As to those attacks against embassies, miltary barracks, etc.? Comparative flea bites. We are never going to be able to prevent a few people from driving up to us in a car and blowing it up. Or carrying a briefcase into a cafe either. As restrictive as the Nazis were in occupied countries, they couldn’t prevent random, small scale acts of sabotage. I see no reason to believe that we can either. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/58 "2006-11-12T14:48:24Z")
And just to keep this somewhat germane to the OP question. I think the Democratic congress needs to pressure the administration to establish cooperative terrorist intelligence sharing with other contries, and develop a crime control rather than a go-to-war approach to keeping terrorism at a minimum. I think that would be more effective than our current approach and would mute the effect of praise from Iran, Al Qaeda, etc., except among those who love the excitement of going to war (from the comfort of their living rooms). ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/59 "2006-11-12T16:20:56Z")
I don’t disagree that we need a new approach. I just hope it’s not the same one’s they tried during the 90’s cause that didn’t work either. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986/60 "2006-11-12T16:53:05Z")
Well, I’m going to go out on a limb and say we shouldn’t give terrorist propaganda a lot of consideration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-democrats-do-about-all-the-praise-from-al-queda-and-iran/379986.md?page=4)