Appeasement and a Presidential apology.
That should calm Putin’s fears and prevent his taking more aggressive actions.
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
WTF do you expect, OP?
[/QUOTE]
Exactly what I got, actually. I expected a bunch of folks to shrug and think ‘well, 30 feet doesn’t sound bad…that’s about the distance I keep when I’m on the freeway…what’s the problem???’ (it’s actually more like over 100 feet when you are going 30 MPH).
I agree. You might have mistook me saying that they are TALKING about a ROE change to imply that this was my suggestion. If you go back and re-read the OP, I think you’ll see I’m ASKING what folks THINK we should do. And, as noted, getting the responses I figured I would, which is nothing constructive and a lot of confused folks who don’t seem to understand the risks involved.
That said, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that if this sort of thing continues, eventually someone WILL shoot down one of these planes. Just like what happened in Turkey. We can all sit here and wonder what the fuss is about, but I can tell you that someone flying that close to a US Navy warship is a real, serious threat and at some point someone is going to panic or be pissed off enough to do something…ESPECIALLY if they are serious about changing whatever the ROE is today to something more aggressive.
Where is this cowardice strawman coming from? And all this sizing of dicks?
At any rate, you’ve answered. You think we should do nothing and just wait until one of these Russian jets smacks into a US (or allied since they are actually fucking with others more than us) jet and someone loses an eye…won’t be all good fun then. Or, worse, flies one of these dubiously maintained and piloted jets into a warship full of sailors because a sparrow farted in Japan…then we should…do…something…
I’m actually on the fence on this. There doesn’t seem to be much we CAN do (though that warship was an Aegis class, IIRC, so there are all sorts of RF things they COULD do that wouldn’t involve firing a single missile…especially at 30 freaking feet) except wait for the inevitable fuckup and death.
OP’s is an important question, and I though XT’s summary was excellent.
Is it just Russian pilots playing cowboy? I think not. It is Putin himself testing U.S. resolve. Putin is an aggressive and ruthless dictator who recently did a public celebration of Soviet military grandeur.
I wish that we are in a new era where Peace is Eternal, History has Ended, and Military Imperialism is obsolete. But I don’t believe it. Putin has violated Ukraine and IIRC stated designs on some other neighbor. Eventually the U.S. will need to decide whether and how to put together a posse and fight Russian aggression.
The buzzings themselves may be a distraction, but the world is more dangerous since the Soviet bloc dissolved. I have no suggestions to offer. A smart Sec’y of State would be nice. I think Elizabeth McCord is doing a good job, but so did Hillary.
Stranger, your contributions on technical matters are usually excellent but I don’t know what to make of this? Are you minimizing the risks, or arguing they’re intractable? Or just abstaining?
See post #9.
And who will dance for joy if Americans shoot down one of his planes. It’s exactly what he wants.
Same thing we’ve been telling them since 1973.
Moscali never change.
Trump would order the U.S. Navy to build their boats thirty feet taller.
And Russia to pay for it.
Why?
How do you figure that?
“Yep…those are balls.”
I’m pointing out that what Putin wants and desperately needs domestically is for Russia to be taken seriously on the world stage so he can play on the cultural insecurity of the Russian people as their nation not being equal to the other major powers. His posturing–and it is just posturing–has everything to do with looking tough. Russia, in its current state, cannot hope to win a conventional war against NATO (even at current military levels), and would come off the worse in any nuclear confrontation (though that would clearly be a bad day for all involved). To that end, he’s played a careful game of posturing and provoking without going so far as to engender an actual military response. Even these overflights are just a provocation, to which he can deny responsibility for authorizing diplomatically but if the Russian pilots are shot down he and feign anger and incite public outrage. Treating him seriously in any way is a win-win for him, and a losing proposition for us.
On the other hand, making a mockery of him is exactly what he needs to avoid in his domestic image. While I don’t literally support calling out the second tier case of Arrested Development from the shady drinking spots they’ve retired to just to make fun of Putin, I think the less we say about him or respond to what are clearly provocations he doesn’t intend to back up, the more it will undermine his support domestically. He’s a very silly man who takes himself very, very seriously, and therefore needs a hefty dose of Monty Python treatment.
Stranger
Frankly, Russia seems to be doing a good enough job on their own. The US is carefully balancing the need to posture a defense and exert the rights of free states with the need to avoid unecessary antagonism or hostility. The West is very skillfully demonstrating the ability to be assertive without being aggressive.
Meanwhile, Russia is marching headlong into a new era of Soviet style repression and actively trying to emulate the policies of the most oppressive police states on Earth. These policies don’t hurt anyone but themselves. And they can have fun with that, as far as I’m concerned.
Isn’t Obama still POTUS?
Has Trump been elected President?
What has been the response of the current President (aka Obama) to this Soviet…er Russian…military aggression?
Well, that’s rather my point, isn’t it? We don’t need to ask how Obama would have reacted; that’s already happening. We don’t need to ask how it would have worked out, likewise. Trump is a “what if”: a hypothetical, a counterfactual.
I’m asking how Trump’s reaction would compare to what’s actually happening: what do we think it would be? Would it be better or worse than Obama’s reaction? It’d be weird to ask those questions about Obama’s reaction, which is, uh, itself. I mean, it’s right there. We can see it happening.
Am I going too fast, here?
Exactly what it should be: Ignore it.
IIRC, the Aegis SPY-1 radar can cause brain damage at close range.
Just a thought…
Because you’re obviously not equipped to maturely discuss the topic and want simplified answers
Seconded.
Also, it can leave a bruise if it plows into you. But Hulk very strong! Hulk smash noisy flying bug! Hulk love Russian ladies but Hulk no like Russian thug! Hulk smash Putin! Puny oligarch!
Stranger
You may not need to ask how Obama would have reacted but Obama is the current President and a Great Debate about what the U.S. should do would mean how should Obama, the U.S. Congress, and the U.S. military respond.
Obama still has lame duck’s chance to influence U.S. foreign policy.