# What should the US do to restore democracy to Burma? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2003, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306 "2003-06-12T12:22:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/1 "2003-06-12T12:22:58Z")
Burma is being ruled by a junta, who recently attacked a motorcade of the elected leader Aung San Suu Kyi, killing a number of her supporters. She was captured and imprisoned. In a Wall Street Journal article, [Colin Powell called for various measures](http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB105537654192139700,00.html?mod=opinion). (link requires registration) > [@](#): > > …On May 30, her motorcade was attacked by thugs, and then the thugs who run the Burmese government placed her under “protective custody.” We can take comfort in the fact that she is well. Unfortunately, the larger process that Ambassador Razali and Aung San Suu Kyi have been pursuing – to restore democracy in Burma – is failing despite their good will and sincere efforts. It is time to reassess our policy toward a military dictatorship that has repeatedly attacked democracy and jailed its heroes. > > * * * > > There is little doubt on the facts. Aung San Suu Kyi’s party won an election in 1990 and since then has been denied its place in Burmese politics. Her party has continued to pursue a peaceful path, despite personal hardships and lengthy periods of house arrest or imprisonment for her and her followers. Hundreds of her supporters remain in prison, despite some initial releases and promises by the junta to release more. The party’s offices have been closed and their supporters persecuted… > > …After the May 30 attack on Aung San Suu Kyi’s convoy, we sent U.S. Embassy officers to the scene to gather information. They reported back that the attack was planned in advance. A series of trucks followed her convoy to a remote location, blocked it and then unloaded thugs to swarm with fury over the cars of democracy supporters. The attackers were brutal and organized; the victims were peaceful and defenseless…It was clear to our embassy officers that the members of the junta were responsible for directing and producing this staged riot. > > We have called for a full accounting of what happened that day… for Aung San Suu Kyi to be released …the release of the other leaders of the National League for Democracy…for the offices of the National League for Democracy to be allowed to reopen… > > The Bush administration agrees with members of Congress…that the time has come to turn up the pressure on the SPDC. > > …The State Department has already extended our visa restrictions to include all officials of an organization related to the junta – the Union Solidarity and Development Association – and the managers of state-run enterprises so that they and their families can be banned as well. > > The United States already uses our voice and our vote against loans to Burma from the World Bank and other international financial institutions. The State Department reports honestly and frankly on the crimes of the SPDC in our reports on Human Rights, Trafficking in Persons, Drugs, and International Religious Freedom… We also speak out frequently and strongly in favor of the National League for Democracy, and against the SPDC… > > Mr. McConnell has introduced the Burmese Freedom and Democracy Act in the Senate; Reps. Henry Hyde and Tom Lantos have introduced a similar bill in the House… Those who follow this issue will know that our support for legislation is in fact a change in the position of this administration and previous ones as well… > > There are a number of measures that should now be taken, many of them in the proposed legislation. It’s time to freeze the financial assets of the SPDC…ban remittances to Burma so that the SPDC cannot benefit from the foreign exchange… place restrictions on travel-related transactions that benefit the SPDC and its supporters…further limit commerce with Burma that enriches the junta’s generals. I’m glad to see the US showing concern for human rights in Burma. The legislation sounds like a good idea to me. Although the steps described in this article are a big improvement, I wonder whether they’re enough to change the government of Burma. Should the US (or the UN) do even more? If so, what additional steps should be considered? OTOH, maybe the legislation is a bad idea. Many would say we’re not the world’s policeman. Maybe we should let the UN take the lead, and the US should merely fulfill its UN obligations. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/2 "2003-06-12T12:28:03Z")
Legislation is pretty mild, out of the general spectrum of actions that could be taken against Burma and Burmese officials. Even I have no problem with the legislation concept in terms of visa restrictions and the like for government officials. I generally have mixed feelings about economic sanctions, as IMO they are more likely to hurt the people who least deserve it; dictators generally have plenty of ways to get cash n spite of sanctions, as the recent history of Iraq demonstrates. (And I must say I’m glad to see you expending some energy on a country outside the Middle East.) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/3 "2003-06-12T13:03:08Z")
All I can say is that 13 years after the elections were thrown and Aung San was _first_ put under house arrest, I guess it’s a case of better late than never ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/4 "2003-06-12T13:28:28Z")
> [@](#): > > **I’m glad to see the US showing concern for human rights in Burma. The legislation sounds like a good idea to me.** I’m very happy to hear this. Though it’s slightly offensive to me, I think the approach is always going to be more carrot than stick (since Burma was accepted into ASEAN a few years ago, sanctions would be less than effective). Publicly leaning on Burma will also help to alleviate the perception of cynicism in current US foreign policy. Let’s hope they follow through effectively. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/5 "2003-06-12T13:29:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by China Guy \* > All I can say is that 13 years after the elections were thrown and Aung San was _first_ put under house arrest, I guess it’s a case of better late than never There’s an amusing saying in North Africa that “Any appointment [time] is good for three months.” Meaning of course, appointments are good for whenever you want to show up. In the case of the Bush administration, I believe we can change this to “Any political event is good for 3 decades, if it fits our agenda at the moment.” ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/6 "2003-06-12T13:43:37Z")
**ATTACK NOW!** 13 years of nonstop diplomatic efforts have been fruitless. They have amassed huge stockpiles of WMD - trust me on that. And they were the real perpretrators behind 9/11. Our mighty coalition of the US and some guy named Fred will not be denied! _(Uh, BTW, do they happen to have oil? No? Well, then - nevermind!)_ ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/7 "2003-06-12T13:52:33Z")
I thought that the jackasses ruining Burma were called SLORC… I don’t much care for sanctions, for the reasons listed above- they hurt the people, not the gov’t, generally. Although, shutting off their access to foreign money may help, but a lot of the money in Burma comes from drug trafficking- poppies, esp. I have always wanted to go to Burma, but didn’t when I was in the neighborhood because I didn’t want to give money to the gov’t. (Which is what I understand happens with tourism $$$). If I remember correctly, there is an additional, unsurprising problem with Burma- the Burmese (majority ethnicity and also make up the gov’t) have oppressed the Mon, Karen, and Shan- ethnic minorities. Assuming the junta is removed, this place has Balkans written all over it. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/8 "2003-06-12T14:52:53Z")
The US should go to the U.N. and promote international pressure against Burma. Not immediate threats of violence. In the event of Elections, there should be U.N. observers to ensure a fair election. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/9 "2003-06-12T14:57:47Z")
A letter to the editor in today’s [Globe](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030612/THULETS12-10//?query=myanmar+and+china) says it well: > [@](#): > > The problem is this. Even U.S. sanctions show no sign of significantly deterring the junta. Why? Bordering countries, particularly China, trade and invest in Myanmar. Indeed, the major effect of Western sanctions is probably to increase the dependence of Myanmar on China. > > To change much in Myanmar the West would have to pressure China. That would take guts. Forget it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/10 "2003-06-12T15:03:55Z")
The Burmese junta – nasty thugs! – Are dissing Aung Suu Kyi! We’ll help her out, although it drags us Into World War III! BURMA SAVE! ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/11 "2003-06-12T15:11:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dinsdale \* > \*\ ***ATTACK NOW!** > > 13 years of nonstop diplomatic efforts have been fruitless. > > They have amassed huge stockpiles of WMD - trust me on that. > > And they were the real perpretrators behind 9/11. > > Our mighty coalition of the US and some guy named Fred will not be denied! > > _(Uh, BTW, do they happen to have oil? No? Well, then - nevermind!)_ \*\* [http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=4570](http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=4570) They have plenty so bombs away! I also have it from reliable sources that Sauron has again taken human form and is being sheltered by the junta while he breeds an army of indestructible orcs. Time for an ass whuppin’ I say. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/12 "2003-06-12T16:51:58Z")
By the way, why does the OP say “restore” democracy to Burma? When did they ever have it before? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/13 "2003-06-12T17:10:05Z")
They have a theoretical democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/14 "2003-06-12T17:57:22Z")
Exactly. Burma has never been a democracy, despite holding an election or two. It doesn’t count if the winners of the elections are imprisoned or executed rather than taking office. Look, the US can only afford to invade and topple at most one odious dictatorship per year. Last year it was Afghanistan, this year it was Iraq. Burma will have to wait. The truth is that there really is nothing we can do about Burma, short of military invasion, or hoping for some sort of popular uprising. Sanctions, UN resolutions, diplomatic pressure…all meaningless. The Burmese junta has no need for positive PR, they have minimal trade (outside of heroin). So we wait for a popular uprising. But we have no control over that uprising, and there is nothing suggesting such an uprising will ever take place. If such an uprising ever does take place it will be done by the Burmese. So the answer to the question is: nothing we can do. Oh, and I have no idea why you’d blame president Bush for not invading Burma 13 years ago. Because, you know, he was only elected in 2000. In case you forgot. Now, all sarcasm aside, which of you want us to invade Burma, and which of you don’t? OK, we invaded Iraq and we havn’t invaded Burma yet. Does that mean we should invade Burma, or that we shouldn’t invade Burma? In order to be consistent, the US must invade every hellhole of a country? Exactly how many invasions do you want? Burma, Congo, Liberia, North Korea, Syria, Sudan, Iran, Zimbabwe…all could make the list. Would the invasion of Iraq be more justified if we invaded some of those countries? Of course not, the invasion of Iraq has to be justified on its own merits. Why does the fact that we haven’t invaded Burma mean that we shouldn’t have invaded Iraq? Maybe we shouldn’t have invaded Iraq, but what does Burma have to do with Iraq? Shouldn’t we be discussing what to do about Burma (ie, nothing) in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/15 "2003-06-12T18:31:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lemur866 \* > Exactly. Burma has never been a democracy, despite holding an election or two. It doesn’t count if the winners of the elections are imprisoned or executed rather than taking office. Just a nitpick, but the post-independance governments of Prime Minister U Nu ( 1948-1956, 1957-1958, 1960-1962 ) are generally considered to have been democratic. More or less, anyway. True one-party rule is usually dated from General Ne Win’s coup in 1962, which overthrew the government elected in 1960. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/16 "2003-06-12T18:55:24Z")
Bush has already had two wars. I don’t think he’ll try to sell us on a third during this term. If Colin Powell’s talking tough about Burman, that doesn’t mean an invasion is imminent, it just means he wants to appear concerned, and maybe really is concerned. But he’s not the president. The 2004 election will in essence be a referendum on Bush’s military policies. If he wins, and the Repubs still control Congress, then I guess he’ll do whatever the hell he wants. But I don’t think Burma would be high on the list – he certainly didn’t name it as part of the “Axis of Evil.” (In fact, I wonder if Bush, before he took office, even knew Burma existed.) Highest priorities would be North Korea, Iran and Cuba, not necessarily in that order. ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/17 "2003-06-12T18:58:56Z")
Diplomatic pressure is fine, and public recognition of the Burmese government as Very Bad People is just dandy, but I think we should leave it at that. Humanitarian missions are, generally speaking, beyond the scope of what our military should be used for. As for the sanction? Meh. I’m fairly ambivalent about those - they have their pros and cons. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/18 "2003-06-12T19:57:03Z")
[http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bm.html#Econ](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bm.html#Econ) The US is Burma’s biggest export partner, we absorb 27% of their goods. If we could pressure India & China on the Burma issue then maybe economic screws could be used to pressure the Burmese government. As far as sanctions, Even though they failed in Iraq i thought they worked in Lybia and Sudan. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-us-do-to-restore-democracy-to-burma/181306/19 "2003-06-12T20:03:12Z")
Then again, burmas economy is $63 billion and hte US imports 27% of burmas $1.8 billion a year export business. so thats not too big of a hit they’d be taking.