# What should the USA do in Iraq? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 17, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971 "2014-06-17T07:00:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/21 "2014-06-17T20:15:55Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > He would then immediately complain about putting them “in harm’s way” without a clear plan. You know who you’re dealing with. > > McCain said, in effect, he’d do whatever the hell he wanted. That’s not cooperation. > > This petulance is unbecoming. Well, I’m going to disagree. But if you really want to debate that, let’s do so in a separate thread. I’m not really interested in hijacking this thread into a debate about just how much of a poopypants McCain is. It’s bad enough that we have 15 different threads on this subject, and we’ve got the same posters posting the same nonsense in all of them. (An exaggeration, but fair. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/22 "2014-06-17T20:27:29Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > A big problem is how U.S. support for Iran would affect other U.S. allies, like Israel and the corrupt oil royals of Arabia. I suppose U.S. leaders are more concerned with high-stakes _Poker_, _Risk_ or _Diplomacy_ than any matters of right or wrong. Unsurprisingly, [the Israelis worry](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4531195,00.html). > [@](#): > > “And we would especially not want for a situation to be created where, because both the United States and Iran support the government of (Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri) al-Maliki, it softens the American positions on the issue which is most critical for the peace of the world, which is the Iranian nuclear issue,” [Israeli Strategic Affairs Minister Yuval] Steinitz said in an interview. However, there’s also this: > [@](#): > > Another Israeli security official, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity, said deeper Iranian commitment in Iraq could make Tehran more accommodating in the nuclear talks as it might feel over-extended and reluctant to spark further crises. > > “They would have to redirect resources, perhaps even pull their forces out of Syria to send to Iraq instead,” the second Israeli official said. “Let them sink into that new quagmire.” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/23 "2014-06-17T21:20:34Z")
I want us to do nothing. We’re done with Iraq, its in their hands now. If it descends into chaos again, if Iran takes over, if it becomes a new terrorist haven, we should take the consequences of that as a way of showing how stupidly wrong we were and as an implicit “fuck you” to the neocons who got us into that mess ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/24 "2014-06-17T21:35:08Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I want us to do nothing. We’re done with Iraq, its in their hands now. If it descends into chaos again, if Iran takes over, if it becomes a new terrorist haven, we should take the consequences of that as a way of showing how stupidly wrong we were and as an implicit “fuck you” to the neocons who got us into that mess I’m sure pointing out how stupidly wrong we were will be a comfort when the price of gas doubles. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/25 "2014-06-17T22:21:30Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I’m sure pointing out how stupidly wrong we were will be a comfort when the price of gas doubles. 😛 Honestly, gas prices are not a huge concern compared to you the possibility of more terrorist attacks on US soil. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/26 "2014-06-18T01:07:13Z")
> [@XT](#): > > The trouble with the US doing nothing is that the same issues that actually drove us to invade in the first place are still viable. No, not WMD. Oil. Am I reading that correctly? It was oil that drove us to invade Iraq in the first place you say. Actually nothing ‘drove’ Bush into invading Iraq let alone oil. Iraq’s oil could have gone freely on the market within several months of March 2003. Sanctions on Iraq would be lifted when Blix and El Baradai gave the UNSC the word that Iraq was disarmed and long term monitoring were put into place. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/27 "2014-06-18T02:29:26Z")
[QUOTE=NotfooledbyW] Am I reading that correctly? It was oil that drove us to invade Iraq in the first place you say. [/QUOTE] Seems like a simple sentence. Is anyone else having issues getting my point? > [@](#): > > Actually nothing ‘drove’ Bush into invading Iraq let alone oil. Iraq’s oil could have gone freely on the market within several months of March 2003. Sanctions on Iraq would be lifted when Blix and El Baradai gave the UNSC the word that Iraq was disarmed and long term monitoring were put into place. And lifting the sanctions would have been bad (especially in Bush et als opinion). Securing 1/5 of the worlds oil reserves and a large percentage of the daily production capacity is a bit more important than you apparently are aware of. And it’s going to be exactly that same equation that countries other than the US are going to be making in the next few months. It’s why it’s important and getting great international attention that a radical Sunni group is expanding into Iraq (when no one really cared that much that they did the same thing in Syria…and no one really cares when radical groups do crazy shit in other parts of the world where they don’t have a great deal of oil reserves or production capacity). If you want to disagree, well, that’s fine…but don’t pretend you don’t understand what I’m saying, because I might believe it of you, even with that simple declarative statement I made there. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/28 "2014-06-18T02:30:54Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Honestly, gas prices are not a huge concern compared to you the possibility of more terrorist attacks on US soil. The trouble is that it will impact everything. I’m also unsure, in the short term, whether or not there is enough slack currently in the system to account for a major disruption of production in Iraq. Guess we’ll find out, but I think it’s a much more serious issue than a lot of folks seem to realize. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/29 "2014-06-18T05:37:08Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Seems like a simple sentence. Is anyone else having issues getting my point? > > And lifting the sanctions would have been bad (especially in Bush et als opinion). Securing 1/5 of the worlds oil reserves and a large percentage of the daily production capacity is a bit more important than you apparently are aware of. And it’s going to be exactly that same equation that countries other than the US are going to be making in the next few months. It’s why it’s important and getting great international attention that a radical Sunni group is expanding into Iraq (when no one really cared that much that they did the same thing in Syria…and no one really cares when radical groups do crazy shit in other parts of the world where they don’t have a great deal of oil reserves or production capacity). > > If you want to disagree, well, that’s fine…but don’t pretend you don’t understand what I’m saying, because I might believe it of you, even with that simple declarative statement I made there. I understand exactly what you wrote. I just wanted to make sure you meant to say we were ‘driven’ to invade Iraq over oil. And when you say ‘we were driven’ you should expect pushback from the near 6 of 10 of us that were in favor of Bush granting UN inspectors more time to peacefully disarm Iraq even if that process took several more months. I am one American that was not driven to support an invasion over peacefully disarming Iraq through the UN. If you think Bush was ‘driven’ to invade by oil you are wrong about that too. There was no higher threat to Iraq’s oil with 200 UN inspectors on the ground in March 2003, specifically as compared to no inspectors on the ground in October 2002. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/30 "2014-06-18T05:45:06Z")
> [@XT](#): > > And lifting the sanctions would have been bad (especially in Bush et als opinion). Securing 1/5 of the worlds oil reserves and a large percentage of the daily production capacity is a bit more important than you apparently are aware of. So if Bush actually held that bad/erroneous opininion in March 2003 do you accept it to be plausible? Lifting sanctions on Iraq would have been in accordance with international law. Are you saying Bush trumps international law? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/31 "2014-06-18T06:14:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m afraid any U.S.-Iran alignment will be politically impossible here. There are still Pubs who want to **invade** Iran, just to stop their nuclear program. Hopefully plenty of Americans outside of Fox Nation and Disciples of Drudge, have matured in common good sense to fully accept an Iran/US alignment on resolving Iraq with very minimal US direct military participation. Here is a pretty good OP-ED on the unfolding situation in Iraq; > **[Opinion | Who Will Win in Iraq? (Published 2014)](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/17/opinion/isis-will-fail-in-iraq-and-iran-will-be-the-victor.html)** > > The insurgency will burn out, to the benefit of its sworn Shiite enemies. OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR Who Will Win in Iraq? By STEVEN SIMON June 16, 2014 Some excerpts - “consider the brute demographic reality” - “Sunnis were reduced to as little as 12 percent of the city’s population.” in Bsghdad, > [@](#): > > It would be no surprise if the next few weeks brought them to the gates of Baghdad" > > But an assault on Baghdad, or even its capture, would be an illusory victory. It can only end in defeat — and the strengthening of the insurgents’ sworn Shiite enemies in Baghdad and, especially, Tehran. > > First, consider the brute demographic reality. Unlike in Syria, Sunnis are a relatively small part of the Iraqi population, about 25 percent — though they are a majority in some areas of the west and north. And in Baghdad their numbers are minuscule. Another key point: > [@](#): > > Moreover, rather like what happened in Syria, the Sunni offensive is likely to spur a transformation of the Iraqi Army from the sorry mess it is now into a more resilient and operationally effective force. It appears ISIS ISIL has done a large portion of non-extremist Sunnis a disservice by bringing Sinni terrorism back into Iraq, More from the Link: > [@](#): > > In addition to being hobbled by their paltry numbers, the rebels have chosen to make war on an adversary with powerful friends who have a serious stake in the future of Iraq. The wisest move snd perhaos the only move the US can make is to coordinate destroying the Sumni terrorists without US direct or open military involvement. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/32 "2014-06-18T08:35:16Z")
The entire “oil war” premise is a myth fabricated by the anti-war movement. It was not, is not, and has never been true. And, FWIW, there is no good outcome to this conflict. This is a conflict that has been brewing for DECADES in Iraq. The Sunni / Shia / Kurdish split was always a kettle ready to boil over. The difference is that now that Saddam and the US are gone, the Iraqis have the freedom to wage their civil war without any strongman trying to artificially hold the country together. This is not so much a terrorist invasion as the obvious and predictable result of a country incapable of resolving its differences and assimilating into one culture. There will never be peace in Iraq until the Sunni/Shia/Kurdish groups work their own problems out, even if that means separating Iraq into three independent states. Any attempt to defeat the insurgency without solving the underlying conflicts is doomed to fail. And that’s not something anyone can do for them but something they must do themselves. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/33 "2014-06-18T11:05:54Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > The entire “oil war” premise is a myth fabricated by the anti-war movement. It was not, is not, and has never been true. > > And, FWIW, there is no good outcome to this conflict. This is a conflict that has been brewing for DECADES in Iraq. The Sunni / Shia / Kurdish split was always a kettle ready to boil over. The difference is that now that Saddam and the US are gone, the Iraqis have the freedom to wage their civil war without any strongman trying to artificially hold the country together. > > This is not so much a terrorist invasion as the obvious and predictable result of a country incapable of resolving its differences and assimilating into one culture. There will never be peace in Iraq until the Sunni/Shia/Kurdish groups work their own problems out, even if that means separating Iraq into three independent states. Any attempt to defeat the insurgency without solving the underlying conflicts is doomed to fail. And that’s not something anyone can do for them but something they must do themselves. While that is true, I was more focused on XT’s determination that something “drove” George Bush into invading Iraq in March 2003. He was not ‘driven’ into anything. He decided he wanted to do it. Iraq did not force him to go there. They were being disarmed peacefully by UN inspectors at the time Bush invaded. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/34 "2014-06-18T20:24:59Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > The entire “oil war” premise is a myth fabricated by the anti-war movement. It was not, is not, and has never been true. It’s probably fodder for another thread but [of course it was (mostly) for oil](http://www.msnbc.com/maddow-why-we-did-it). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/35 "2014-06-18T20:36:51Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > The entire “oil war” premise is a myth fabricated by the anti-war movement. It was not, is not, and has never been true. [Well, yes and no.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=381910) ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/36 "2014-06-19T08:11:23Z")
Of course it wasn’t about the oil. That’s why they made a bee-line for the Oil Ministry, by-passed both the main arms depots and the locations they’d been screaming on about WMD’s. Oil may not have been the only ingredient in the recipe for this cynical slice of pie but it’s certainly a major part of it. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/37 "2014-06-19T08:32:28Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Share your intelligence, such as it is, with the Kurds and the Iranians. > > Maybe put in a few airstrikes and drone strikes against ISIS targets, if and when the Kurds and/or the Iranians call for them. > > Other than that, stay out. Basically this. Be sure to let everyone know they need to respect the no-fly zone over Kurdistan and tell the others to go piss up a rope. Never shoulda gotten into that mess and only a fool would get pulled back in. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/38 "2014-06-19T11:25:25Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Of course it wasn’t about the oil. That’s why they made a bee-line for the Oil Ministry, by-passed both the main arms depots and the locations they’d been screaming on about WMD’s. > > Oil may not have been the only ingredient in the recipe for this cynical slice of pie but it’s certainly a major part of it. There was no threat to Iraq’s oil from Iraq’s suspected possession of WMD in March of 2003 on the date that the invasion was decided because the UN inspectors were in Iraq resolving the WMD matter for once and for all, which in turn made Iraq’s oil reserves and worn out infrastructure more secure than it had been since 1998 when inspectors left. XT boldly declared upthread ("_The trouble with the US doing nothing is that the same issues that actually drove us to invade in the first place are still viable. No, not WMD. Oil."_) and that is absolute false as stated. XT is likely attempting to compensate for his own immediate support for the invasion because he was fooled by the Bush White House that an invasion was necessary and Bush was driven to war because a threat suddenly reared its ugly head in part because Iraq’s oil was under some terrorist threat with Saddam Hussein in power. Most of us know and knew that it was not and that Bush was not to be believed. Examine what XT wrote very closely in the light of what is happening as we speak: ("…that actually drove us to invade in the first place are still viable. ") Today the threat to Iraq’s possession of oil is threatened by al Qaeda terrorist invading the soverign territory of Iraq and challenging the Shia dominated government there. No such threat existed in 2003 at all. Not even close. XT is wrong. Of course Iraq’s ‘close to the surface’ and ‘easily pumped’ high grade oil attracted attention and foaming at the mouth by governments and corporation alike. But that does not excuse XT to declare that there was a threat to Iraq’s oil or the world’s oil based economy in 2003 as exists today with the ISIS invasion of Iraq. That is reduculous. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/39 "2014-06-19T14:16:49Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Today the threat to Iraq’s possession of oil is threatened by al Qaeda terrorist invading the soverign territory of Iraq and challenging the Shia dominated government there. But, where’s the threat? **Whoever** controls those oilfields is going to pump and export the oil, because it’s good for nothing else and it’s too much money to pass up. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971/40 "2014-06-19T14:43:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, where’s the threat? **Whoever** controls those oilfields is going to pump and export the oil, because it’s good for nothing else and it’s too much money to pass up. Surely the fighting over control would interfere with the pumping and export, no? Oil workers are tough dudes, but I think they’d hightail it in the face of open battle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-the-usa-do-in-iraq/690971.md?page=3)