# What should we do with confederate monuments and statues? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694 "2017-08-15T01:11:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/441 "2020-06-07T14:57:24Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > To add on to what I said earlier, most things “Dixie” related used to be very common all over the south but they are being quietly removed. For example Dolly Parton owns a restaurant called [“The Stampede”](https://dpstampede.com/). But just a few years ago it was called the "[Dixie Stampede"](https://slate.com/culture/2017/08/visiting-dolly-partons-dinner-show-dixie-stampede.html) and depicted a tribute to rebs, yanks, and the antebellum south. Partons theme park “Dollywood” was built upon a previous park that had gone under called[The Rebel Railroad"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollywood). In the old tv show “Dukes of Hazzard” they drove a car called the General Lee and had a confederate flag on top. That has ended. > > So the world has moved on and with it, the honoring of the south. Not thru tearing down statues but just thru quiet pressure and the recognition that things related to the confederacy are not so good. > > So lets just keep it at that. Melt them down and use the bronze to roof mosques. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/442 "2020-06-07T15:25:05Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > To add on to what I said earlier, most things “Dixie” related used to be very common all over the south but they are being quietly removed. For example Dolly Parton owns a restaurant called [“The Stampede”](https://dpstampede.com/). But just a few years ago it was called the "[Dixie Stampede"](https://slate.com/culture/2017/08/visiting-dolly-partons-dinner-show-dixie-stampede.html) and depicted a tribute to rebs, yanks, and the antebellum south. Partons theme park “Dollywood” was built upon a previous park that had gone under called[The Rebel Railroad"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollywood). Don’t forget the military aviation preservation group that once called itself the Confederate Air Force but decided on a name change. “In November 2000, the group voted to rename, using the initials “CAF” until a permanent name was selected.[1] Following a 2001 membership vote, the group changed its name to “Commemorative Air Force,” effective January 1, 2002.[4] Many felt the name Confederate Air Force was confusing, did not accurately reflect the purpose of the organization, and was detrimental to fundraising efforts.[18] According to CAF chief of staff Ray Kinney, “In many people’s minds, the word ‘confederacy’ brings up the image of slavery and discrimination. We, in no way, are associated with that kind of stuff. So, it gives us, in a way, a black eye.”” > **[Commemorative Air Force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commemorative_Air_Force)** > > The Commemorative Air Force (CAF), formerly known as the Confederate Air Force, is an American non-profit organization based in Dallas, Texas, that preserves and shows historical aircraft at airshows, primarily in the U.S. and Canada. > The CAF has about 13,000 members, more than 70 chapters, and more than 170 aircraft, including the world's largest collection of airworthy warbirds. > The origin of the Commemorative Air Force is the organization called the "Confederate Air Corps" created by Oscar... So yes, times change. The CAF’s mission doesn’t seem to have been negatively affected by its renaming. If military bases named after Confederates are renamed I doubt that will affect military readiness. Removing/moving statues of Confederate figures out of the public square won’t “erase history”. We’ll get on just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/443 "2020-06-07T15:32:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Don’t forget the military aviation preservation group that once called itself the Confederate Air Force but decided on a name change. > > “In November 2000, the group voted to rename, using the initials “CAF” until a permanent name was selected.[1] Following a 2001 membership vote, the group changed its name to “Commemorative Air Force,” effective January 1, 2002.[4] Many felt the name Confederate Air Force was confusing, did not accurately reflect the purpose of the organization, and was detrimental to fundraising efforts.[18] According to CAF chief of staff Ray Kinney, “In many people’s minds, the word ‘confederacy’ brings up the image of slavery and discrimination. We, in no way, are associated with that kind of stuff. So, it gives us, in a way, a black eye.”” > > [Commemorative Air Force - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commemorative_Air_Force) > > So yes, times change. The CAF’s mission doesn’t seem to have been negatively affected by its renaming. If military bases named after Confederates are renamed I doubt that will affect military readiness. Removing/moving statues of Confederate figures out of the public square won’t “erase history”. We’ll get on just fine. A great post. Names and symbols and icons and statues and imagery definitely have meanings. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/444 "2020-06-07T17:35:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Don’t forget the military aviation preservation group that once called itself the Confederate Air Force but decided on a name change. > . Good point. I always found that name confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/445 "2020-06-08T01:09:26Z")
_**Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned.**_ Irish poet Yeats wrote this in 1919 toward the end of the H1N1 pandemic that infected about a third of the people in the world and killed at least 50,000,000 people He published it in 1920, one hundred years ago, in the midst of the Irish Revolution. Now look about at the USA – presently a massively powerful but racially divided and politically failed state led by the fascist laughing stock of the first world. Why has the USA failed? Just as with Yeats’ Ireland, it comes down having a societal norm of bigotry used by those in power to control those not in power to justify social, economic and political inequity, including the violent use of raw power. What the American bigots are facing right now is their fear that just as their heros of their revolution against the USA failed miserably, their ongoing insistence on the continued normalization of racist beliefs and behaviours is also doomed to ignominious failure. Racism was evil 160 years ago when the south was convincing itself of its righteous cause prior its failed attempt to secede, and in case you have not noticed, that same racism it is still evil today. Although the south was militarily crushed, the southerners’ racist beliefs were not, such that blacks continued to suffer under the heels of southern-white social, political and economic power despite no longer formally being slaves. Racism is at the core of Confederate culture, and is endemic throughout the once-Confederate states. Just because southern bigots have pride in their culture does not justify their maintaining their bigotry. They must learn to accept that bigotry is evil, despite it being a proud family tradition for hundreds of years. Just because they find acceptance, respect and communion with their bigoted families and friends does not justify their maintaining their bigotry. Just because they find stability and status in their material culture, such as their war flag that was re-popularized starting in 1948 when the segregationist Dixiecrats broke from the civil rights proposing Democrats, does not justify their maintaining their bigotry. Quite simply, the symbols, artefacts and monuments so cherished by so many southerners are nothing more than racist sacraments that remind decent people --particularly blacks whose families have suffered in every way imaginable under the bigots – of just how vile and dangerous the bigots are. The noble south is a myth. The bigotry of southern whites and the incalculable harm they have caused is reality. Bigots must either deal with it or be dealt with, for as Yeats so effectively expressed it, “_the centre cannot hold . . . . The ceremony of innocence is drowned._” The governor of Virginia is dealing with it. For example, the centerpiece of Richmond’s Monument Avenue, the General Lee 21’ statute and 40’ plinth, is being removed. Here’s part of an interview by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation of an articulate, mature black resident of Richmond: > **['Great relief' at planned removal of Robert E. Lee statue: Virginia senator |...](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-friday-edition-1.5599939/great-relief-at-planned-removal-of-robert-e-lee-statue-virginia-senator-1.5599980)** > > Virginia's governor has ordered the removal of the confederate general's statue, which has towered over visitors to Richmond for over a century. Democratic state senator Jennifer McClellan says the move is part of telling "a truthful story" about... > [@](#): > > As a 47-year-old Black woman, born and raised in the South, you just kind of condition yourself to ignore these monuments and these symbols and all the trauma that they trigger. And then there’s certain moments when that trauma bubbles through. > > But just the constant, trying to shield yourself from it … I didn’t realize how exhausting that was, and how much of a burden it was, until I heard the governor say it’s coming down. > > [The statue] symbolizes not just the trauma of slavery and the Civil War and everything it represents, but it was put up at a time when Black Americans had gained economic, political and social power and freedom during Reconstruction. And then, right at the end of Reconstruction, as the old South, white power base came back, they put these monuments up as part of this lost-cause narrative to put Black people back in their place, at the same time that they were instituting Jim Crow laws to take away political, social and economic power. So the monuments also symbolize that backlash post-Reconstruction. All of that is wrapped up in just that statue.\* > . . . . > This is not about erasing history. This is about putting that history in context, and acknowledging that statue is more than just a depiction of Robert E. Lee. Her statement ignores all of the pain and trauma that is wrapped up in that statue. And Black people, and other people of colour, Native Virginians, their history has been erased going on 400 years. > > It’s now time to tell a complete, truthful story about our history, and that monument was the beginning of the lie to put Black people in their place. The lie of white supremacy. And we have got to acknowledge that if we are ever going to heal as a nation going forward. I encourage bigots to take her words at face value. Recognize the validity of her feelings, and recognize their responsibility to stop hurting her by insisting that reminders of past and ongoing persecution and discrimination remain physically, economically and socially embedded at the core of the culture of which she remains on the periphery. But still the bigots cling to their relic veneration of Stone Mountain, convincing themselves that they are not bigots, that their actions and inactions are not hurting innocent people who happen not to be white, and that such inferior people are too sensitive. Fuck the racist war mongers who rode in on the backs of Blackjack, Traveler and Little Sorre, causing the deaths of about 620,000 people solely in the cause of bigotry. Fuck the bigots today who propagate their bigotry under the guise of patriotism. Fuck their mementos ad servitutis erected by the Mothers of the Confederacy in the 20th century to remind blacks of who is master and who is slave. Fuck their Klu Klux Clan shrine to bigotry, slavery and death at Stone Mountain. A pox be upon all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/446 "2020-06-08T02:05:10Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > such that blacks continued to suffer under the heels of southern-white social, political and economic power despite no longer formally being slaves. And not just southern. I’m not attempting any false equivalences here, and certainly the pro-slavery South was objectively, catastrophically worse in that regard than the anti-slavery North (once the Northern colonies/states themselves actually got around to renouncing slavery, that is). But I don’t think we should let northern-white culture off the hook for its own racism and racist enabling of discriminatory structures like Jim Crow, school segregation, racist policing, etc. > [@Muffin](#): > > Racism is at the core of Confederate culture, and is endemic throughout the once-Confederate states. Racism is at the core of white American culture, and is endemic throughout all American states. No, it’s not equally virulent everywhere, but it is systemic and it affects all of us. George Floyd wasn’t killed in a once-Confederate state. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/447 "2020-06-08T02:10:02Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So should we also tear down any statue dedicated to venerating Americans who fought in the Vietnam war? Which ones are you talking about? The wall in DC of names who died in Vietnam? That memorial is in no way a celebration of the war. It’s supposed to look like a black scar. Many of those who died were forced to be there. It’s honoring the victims of fucked up government decisions. It’s a giant “we’re sorry” to those names. I…I can’t even read the rest of your garbage post. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/448 "2020-06-08T02:41:49Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Which ones are you talking about? The wall in DC of names who died in Vietnam? That memorial is in no way a celebration of the war. It’s supposed to look like a black scar. Many of those who died were forced to be there. It’s honoring the victims of fucked up government decisions. It’s a giant “we’re sorry” to those names. > > I…I can’t even read the rest of your garbage post. To bad. You might have learned something. So what then is YOUR criteria for taking down statues, tearing down shrines, and closing museums and putting up others? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/449 "2020-06-08T02:55:28Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > To bad. You might have learned something. > > So what then is YOUR criteria for taking down statues, tearing down shrines, and closing museums and putting up others? Museum venerating Hitler = Bad Museum to Holocaust victims = Good It’s not hard. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/450 "2020-06-08T03:20:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And not just southern. I’m not attempting any false equivalences here, and certainly the pro-slavery South was objectively, catastrophically worse in that regard than the anti-slavery North (once the Northern colonies/states themselves actually got around to renouncing slavery, that is). But I don’t think we should let northern-white culture off the hook for its own racism and racist enabling of discriminatory structures like Jim Crow, school segregation, racist policing, etc. > Racism is at the core of white American culture, and is endemic throughout all American states. No, it’s not equally virulent everywhere, but it is systemic and it affects all of us. George Floyd wasn’t killed in a once-Confederate state. You are bang on target, Kimstu. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/451 "2020-06-08T04:31:27Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So what then is YOUR criteria for taking down statues, tearing down shrines, and closing museums and putting up others? **Lemur866** already provided a reasonable and workable set of criteria for this on the previous page, near the end of the 2017 iteration of this argument, which directly addresses your Vietnam example: > [@Lemur866](#): > > Even a monument to the confederate soldiers who died in the war isn’t such a big deal. They fought in a war to preserve slavery and paid the ultimate price. If someone wants to put up a monument that says “Isn’t it sad that all these people died?”, that’s fine. It’s always sad when a bunch of people die. > > It’s only a problem if the monument goes further to celebrate the cause for which they fought. > > For example, in my town there’s a little memorial to the local men who died in the Vietnam War. Even if I thought the Vietnam War was wrong, we can still have a memorial for the kids who died there. But putting up a statue of General Westmoreland to celebrate his role in the Vietnam War? Yeah, I’m gonna have a problem with that. In short: Grieving the deaths of Confederate soldiers on behalf of the families and communities who lost them? Fine. Glorifying or celebrating the pro-treason, pro-slavery cause of the Confederacy itself? Not fine. The rest of your post only makes it clear that you don’t really have a clear grasp of the distinction between the fundamental aims or issues over which a war is being fought, and the contemporary moral failings of the entities and individuals doing the fighting. Could we put up a statue to the memory of the black and Native American soldiers who fought against the US in the War of 1812 in order to defend their lives from slavery and conquest? Sure, that could be a very good thing. Was Britain fighting the US in the War of 1812 for altruistic reasons in order to protect black and Native American people? No, it sure as hell wasn’t. And so on through the rest of your examples. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/452 "2020-06-08T16:56:39Z")
Related to slavery and the issue here: “In Bristol, England BLM protestors pulled down the statue of slave trader Edward Colston and threw it in the harbor.” > **[r/funny - In Bristol, England BLM protestors pulled down the statue of slave...](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/gywxk9/in_bristol_england_blm_protestors_pulled_down_the/)** > > 82,407 votes and 2,466 comments so far on Reddit Google maps now shows the former location of the statue, if the article was correct, Google maps was just changed again, that early change showing the statue being in the middle of harbor was likely due to Google vandalism. Kinda appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/453 "2020-06-08T21:17:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The rest of your post only makes it clear that you don’t really have a clear grasp of the distinction between the fundamental aims or issues over which a war is being fought, and the contemporary moral failings of the entities and individuals doing the fighting. Could we put up a statue to the memory of the black and Native American soldiers who fought against the US in the War of 1812 in order to defend their lives from slavery and conquest? Sure, that could be a very good thing. Was Britain fighting the US in the War of 1812 for altruistic reasons in order to protect black and Native American people? No, it sure as hell wasn’t. And so on through the rest of your examples. Actually I understand the Civil War VERY well and while yes, the war was over slavery, you cannot convince me the men in Pickett’s charge died for the rights to own slaves or Sherman marched to the sea because he just wanted to free the slaves. Ok, so your saying a statue to Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson is bad. But then what about the [museum for the Hunley?](https://www.hunley.org/overview/?utm_source=sem&utm_campaign=hunley&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr9vK_5Dz6QIVhsDACh1vLAswEAAYASAAEgIRGPD_BwE) And again. I am ok with a city removing a statue and then selling it or putting it in storage or whatever. Those things were put up some over 100 years ago and times change. Peoples heroes change. I think its wrong to tell people its ok to just go around and pull down statues to whomever they dont like. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/454 "2020-06-08T21:26:22Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Actually I understand the Civil War VERY well and while yes, the war was over slavery, you cannot convince me the men in Pickett’s charge died for the rights to own slaves or Sherman marched to the sea because he just wanted to free the slaves. > > Ok, so your saying a statue to Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson is bad. But then what about the [museum for the Hunley?](https://www.hunley.org/overview/?utm_source=sem&utm_campaign=hunley&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr9vK_5Dz6QIVhsDACh1vLAswEAAYASAAEgIRGPD_BwE) > > And again. I am ok with a city removing a statue and then selling it or putting it in storage or whatever. Those things were put up some over 100 years ago and times change. Peoples heroes change. I think its wrong to tell people its ok to just go around and pull down statues to whomever they dont like. Statues of a person (or naming a building/park/etc) is used to _honor_ the person. Putting an object in a museum is to preserve history. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/455 "2020-06-08T22:03:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > But then what about the [museum for the Hunley?](https://www.hunley.org/overview/?utm_source=sem&utm_campaign=hunley&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr9vK_5Dz6QIVhsDACh1vLAswEAAYASAAEgIRGPD_BwE) What **running coach** said. A museum and a monument are two different things. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > And again. I am ok with a city removing a statue and then selling it or putting it in storage or whatever. Those things were put up some over 100 years ago and times change. Peoples heroes change. I think its wrong to tell people its ok to just go around and pull down statues to whomever they dont like. Then I don’t think we’re really in disagreement. I’m not seeing anybody actually **recommending** illegal destruction or damage of statues by angry mobs, although a lot of people are not unreasonably expressing sympathy for the understandable frustration of the protestors who are engaging in such illegal acts. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/456 "2020-06-10T00:52:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Then I don’t think we’re really in disagreement. I’m not seeing anybody actually **recommending** illegal destruction or damage of statues by angry mobs, although a lot of people are not unreasonably expressing sympathy for the understandable frustration of the protestors who are engaging in such illegal acts. Look at posts 402 and 417 above and tell me nobody is advocating random destruction. I live in Johnson County Kansas. People moved here for decades making it one of the best areas to live in the midwest and had no problem with the name until recently they found out that Johnson was a former slave trader and now they are demanding the name be changed. See, it wont stop. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/457 "2020-06-10T00:53:19Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Look at posts 402 and 417 above and tell me nobody is advocating random destruction. > > I live in Johnson County Kansas. People moved here for decades making it one of the best areas to live in the midwest and had no problem with the name until recently they found out that Johnson was a former slave trader and now they are demanding the name be changed. > > See, it wont stop. Oh no! The name of a county might change! How horrible! ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/458 "2020-06-10T01:35:32Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Look at posts 402 and 417 above and tell me nobody is advocating random destruction. My post 417 in no way was promoting random destruction. I was advocating deliberate, targeted destruction of a memorial to traitors. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/459 "2020-06-10T01:39:14Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I live in Johnson County Kansas. People moved here for decades making it one of the best areas to live in the midwest and had no problem with the name until recently they found out that Johnson was a former slave trader and now they are demanding the name be changed. > > See, it wont stop. Are you proud of living in a county named for a slave trader? I live in King County, WA, named after an obscure politician. Recently it was renamed King County, after MLK. Logos were changed to include his picture. Everybody’s happy. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694/460 "2020-06-10T02:26:53Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I live in King County, WA, named after an obscure politician. Recently it was renamed King County, after MLK. Logos were changed to include his picture. Everybody’s happy. (To be _that person_, he was the VP of the US. The thought was if they named bigger counties for the President and VP, it might help usher in statehood faster). But for the most part the name change went very smoothly. > [@](#): > > had no problem with the name until recently they found out that Johnson was a former slave trader Did they really have no trouble with the name? or were you just not listening to the people who had trouble with the name until now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-we-do-with-confederate-monuments-and-statues/793694.md?page=24)