# What significance, if any, is there to the King assassination conspiracy verdict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 9, 2015, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198 "2015-04-09T11:49:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/21 "2015-04-09T17:43:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If the unsealed records provide no proof for your theory, will you concede you were wrong? I don’t automatically assume they did. If I did, I’d bet more than my yearly salary. I have a strong suspicion…and as many criminals as you deal with, I’m surprised you don’t. The FBI was clearly willing to break the law with Dr. King by wiretapping him and blackmailing him. They had/have no actual respect for the law, clearly. Do you really not view that as tainting their credibility? And it would depend on the documents as to whether or not my mind would change. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/22 "2015-04-09T17:58:19Z")
It would be nice if the FBI losing credibility meant someone else gained some, but it just ain’t so. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/23 "2015-04-09T19:24:02Z")
There are enough significant questions about who assisted, backed and possibly encouraged JER that I would be in no way surprised to find that there are connections to US government agencies or individuals. MLK was seen as a major threat to national stability and government policy, and while there is no evidence, I don’t see it as impossible that FBI or other elements took it on themselves to “fix” the problem. Since everyone promptly forgot about King and his efforts had no lasting effect, it was clearly a successful assassination no matter who carried it out. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/24 "2015-04-11T11:58:44Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > and [here](http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/mlktrial.asp). > > What’s the Straight Dope on this? Snopes says it all, Jowers is basically made rich because he LOST, he stood to GAIN by failing to win the case. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/25 "2015-04-11T12:18:48Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Snopes says it all, Jowers is basically made rich because he LOST, he stood to GAIN > by failing to win the case. So that means the criminals at the FBI are automatically innocent? OK then. Whatever you need to believe. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/26 "2015-04-11T12:21:59Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > There are enough significant questions about who assisted, backed and possibly encouraged JER that I would be in no way surprised to find that there are connections to US government agencies or individuals. MLK was seen as a major threat to national stability and government policy, and while there is no evidence, I don’t see it as impossible that FBI or other elements took it on themselves to “fix” the problem. > > Since everyone promptly forgot about King and his efforts had no lasting effect, it was clearly a successful assassination no matter who carried it out. :rolleyes: This is all I’m saying. Even if innocent, the FBI’s blatant disregard for the law re: Dr. King destroys any presumption of innocence on their part. They broke the law. And I agree, killing Dr. King was like killing Obi Wan… ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/27 "2015-04-13T01:38:23Z")
No, because Bob Seger’s going to Katmandu. . . ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/28 "2015-04-13T03:06:13Z")
The trial appears to have been staged for propaganda purposes. William Pepper, the King family lawyer (who bizarrely enough also represented James Ray) made statements that the government had worked with Loyd Jowers to kill Reverend King. But he filed a lawsuit only against Jowers and not against the government. So the government, which had not officially been accused, did not present any defense. The jury found that there was reasonable evidence that Jowers had been involved in King’s murder and pronounced him guilty. Pepper and the King family have claimed that this verdict also proves the government is guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/29 "2015-04-13T03:17:14Z")
Dr. King came out vociferously against the Vietnam War. Given his tremendous influence among the African-American community, that alone was reason enough to have him killed. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/30 "2015-04-13T03:31:25Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > The FBI was known to be trying to blackmail Dr. King into suicide. It’s not a big jump from that to committing murder, especially given how they’ve handled situations like Ruby Ridge. Personally, if I were forced to bet on it, I’d bet they did it, given what is already known about the organization. Your responses to just about any thread are incredibly predictable. > [@Bricker](#): > > If the unsealed records provide no proof for your theory, will you concede you were wrong? Ha! > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > MLK was seen as a major threat \<_snip_\> and\*\* while there is no evidence\*\*, I don’t see it as impossible that …Space aliens took the form of humans and carried out the assassination. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/31 "2015-04-13T15:26:08Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Dr. King came out vociferously against the Vietnam War. > > Given his tremendous influence among the African-American community, that alone was reason enough to have him killed. King also pissed off a lot of racists. Why is it implausible that one of them killed him? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/32 "2015-04-13T16:10:03Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > …Space aliens took the form of humans and carried out the assassination. No. Read my many postings in the JFK threads… I am the last to take any kind of CT tack. But unlike Oswald, there are unanswered questions about Ray that he remained stubbornly mute on for the rest of his imprisoned life. It is almost inconceivable that he did the deed without help and support. Okay, so it was some other white redneck townies who pooled some money and he drew the short straw. But given the level of verified, documented FBI shenanigans against the “counterculture” in that era, I would be utterly unsurprised to find a rogue - or maybe not so rogue - government agent or connection to his supporters. I would say it’s pretty clear we’ll never know, since he never talked and nothing has come to light. But unlike LHO, he was CLEARLY not working solo. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/33 "2015-04-13T18:53:01Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > But unlike LHO, he was CLEARLY not working solo. I’m on board with you in the JFK threads, and I am well acquainted with FBI Cointelpro during the 1960’s, so I am sincere when I ask for information\* on this issue. I actually read William Pepper’s _An Act of State_, and it is as convincing as a one-sided argument can be expected to be. But I am also leery of conspiracy theorizing, so I am pretty skeptical of finding guilt by association when no evidence exists. What is the evidence? \*Dare I say, “Cite”? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/34 "2015-04-13T19:04:35Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > It is almost inconceivable that he did the deed without help and support. King was staying in a hotel he regularly stayed in, in a specific room he was known to regularly stay in, directly across the street from where Ray lived. He bought the rifle that fired the fatal shot himself and it was a matter of public record that King would be in town on that day and time. What precisely about the assassination is “inconceivable” that Ray could have pulled off on his own? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/35 "2015-04-13T19:45:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > King was staying in a hotel…directly across the street from where Ray lived. While I agree with the rest of your post, it’s a little bit charitable to say that Ray “lived” across the street from the motel. Rather, he rented a room at a cheap motel _specifically so_ he would be across the street from King (even rejecting the first room shown, which was bigger, but which didn’t provide a view of the motel). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/36 "2015-04-13T19:58:26Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > No. Read my many postings in the JFK threads… I am the last to take any kind of CT tack. But unlike Oswald, there are unanswered questions about Ray that he remained stubbornly mute on for the rest of his imprisoned life. It is almost inconceivable that he did the deed without help and support. Okay, so it was some other white redneck townies who pooled some money and he drew the short straw. My personal opinion is that Ray killed Reverend King. But I don’t think he acted completely alone. I don’t think there was a government conspiracy but I think Ray got help from members of his family and perhaps some friends. Covering for them is the reason Ray wouldn’t talk. Later, when some people wanted to blame the government for the murder and claim Ray had been set up, Ray was more than happy to go along with this story and proclaim his innocence. ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/37 "2015-04-14T21:29:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What precisely about the assassination is “inconceivable” that Ray could have pulled off on his own? No one in Guilder knew what he had done, and no one in Florin could have gotten there so fast. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/38 "2015-04-14T21:39:06Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I’m on board with you in the JFK threads, and I am well acquainted with FBI Cointelpro during the 1960’s, so I am sincere when I ask for information\* on this issue. I actually read William Pepper’s _An Act of State_, and it is as convincing as a one-sided argument can be expected to be. But I am also leery of conspiracy theorizing, so I am pretty skeptical of finding guilt by association when no evidence exists. What is the evidence? I am not as familar with the King assassination as I am with JFK. However, my recollection is that Ray was a rather ordinary, moderately impoverished individual who suddenly had a bunch of new stuff - a car (a Mustang?), a rifle, clothes, suitcases etc. that were beyond his apparent means. Maybe I’m operating from old data, but my impression was that he had everything but pay stubs from… someone helpful. I am not in any way disputing that JER was the sole killer and that he did it. But whether he was as solo in motivation, planning and support as Oswald… I think that can be questioned. It’s very easy to assume fellow racists, from barflies up to local government, inspired and egged him on, and maybe contributed to the effort - and, IMVHO, it’s not a hard stretch from that to someone in federal shoes who promised help, a getaway, something. No cites. No CTs. No particular need to prove anything beyond what’s already known… but I think we could be surprised with a deathbed or posthumous revelation sometime in the next decade or two. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/39 "2015-04-14T22:46:41Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s very easy to assume fellow racists, from barflies up to local government, inspired and egged him on, and maybe contributed to the effort - and, IMVHO, it’s not a hard stretch from that to someone in federal shoes who promised help, a getaway, something. And after swallowing that possibility, it wouldn’t be hard to choke down the proposition that Richard Nixon financed the assassination to keep King from influencing the 1968 presidential election. > [@](#): > > No cites. No CTs. No particular need to prove anything beyond what’s already known… but I think we could be surprised with a deathbed or posthumous revelation sometime in the next decade or two. I’ve always wondered why people have a fascination with deathbed confessions/conversions, taking them (or at least, fables about them) as gospel truth. Examples: Darwin allegedly converting to Christianity on his deathbed, Pasteur renouncing his germ theory (both of these tales have been debunked as fiction). ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198/40 "2015-04-14T23:50:11Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I am not as familar with the King assassination as I am with JFK. However, my recollection is that Ray was a rather ordinary, moderately impoverished individual who suddenly had a bunch of new stuff - a car (a Mustang?), a rifle, clothes, suitcases etc. that were beyond his apparent means. Maybe I’m operating from old data, but my impression was that he had everything but pay stubs from… someone helpful. It’s also possible that his criminal activity provided him with the cash he needed (specifically, bank robberies) Cite: [http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/31/mlk.ray.money/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/31/mlk.ray.money/index.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-significance-if-any-is-there-to-the-king-assassination-conspiracy-verdict/717198.md?page=3)