I don’t think I have advanced the position that the determination of the suicide bombers in carrying out their missions supports the validity of their tactics.
I don’t see how my religious beliefs or moral values have anything to do with suicide bombers.
I agree that it seems to be an irrational method. As the saying goes, desperate times calls for desperate measures, and there is hardly any measures more desperate than suicide bombings.
What I was saying is I understand why a number of Palestinians consider this as an effective measure of response. I was neither condoning nor attacking it on moral grounds.
Twistoffate and Tamerlane are right I think. The psychology of suicide bombers is similar to that of any suicide victim although they’re obviously pragmatic. A suicidal person has a strong sense of hopelessness and worthlessness. Palestinians aren’t playing with their x-boxes while their retirement funds grow. They have no chance of financial security or material wealth. More importantly, in my opinion, they cannot suffer the pain of their relatives. When their fathers, brothers, sisters and mothers are humilated they find that literally unbearable. It’s the most natural human instinct in the world.
I explain it to myself like this: In biological terms a person who suicides (whether they are a terrorist or not) probably has some kind of brain chemical erosion caused by years and years of hardship, difficulty and unhappiness. When the chemical finally disappears even a greatly improved lifestyle cannot alter their prediliction towards suicide. They’ll do it any time, they’ll do it easily and they’ll be laughing when they do it. Kurt Cobain was a bit like that and the next exploding Palestinian will be just like that.
I believe the assertion that suicide bombers have “a strong sense of hopelessness and worthlessness” or "similar to that of any suicide victim " is incorrect.
Psychologists who have studied Palestinian suicide bombers (this was on BBC radio so no cite available) say that, in the case of Palestinian bombers, the bombers consider themselves ‘already dead’ days before the act. Given that they are ‘heroic’ and believe they are one step away from heavenly reward, the psychologists appear entirely at peace, and not personally desperate in the least.
To understand this further, one should separate the phenomenon of suicide bombings into two parts:
Terrorist bombing
Martyrdom
We in the West abhor (deliberate) bombing of innocents (H. Kissinger excepted), but laud martyrdom:[ul][li]“Shoot if you must this old grey head”[/li][li]“I regret that I have but one life to give for my country”[/li][li]The dead heroes who gave their lives for others during 9-11[/li][li]Awarding highest military honours only to soldiers who died in ‘suicidal’ actions in war[/li][li]The Christian mythos, and actions of the early saints when confronted by Roman persecution[/li][li]“Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for a friend”[/li][li]Jesus’ own martyrdom[/ul]…to name but a few. [/li]
Were these people brave and noble, or feeling “hopeless” and “suicidal”? I am sure the same applies to Palestinians who died for their cause. Thus, if a community does laud deliberate targetting of innocents (out of desperation or hatred), the bombers’ heroism is assured.
The act of martyrdom in ‘battle’ is not seen as suicidal but heroic. Furthermore the religious element gives them a ‘state of grace’. These people are experiencing the opposite of what is being asserted.
What I’d really like to comprehend is the motivation of Tamil Tiger suicide bombers (warning, gross picture on this page), who are not motivated by religious considerations.
So I suggested their commitment doesn’t make us “question our commitment to our own beliefs” with:
And you ask, “What’s the point of this?”
So I posted:
Which for some reason prompts you to ask:
I don’t think you did either. I was addressing robinc308’s point about them making you question your beliefs.
I don’t either. We’re still on the first point: Does their commitment make you question yours?
Are we cool?
Well, with the few exceptions given above, most cases of “desperate situations” (including those that were much more “desperate” don’t lead to suicide bombings. I too can appreciate the motivations. But, for example, just because I understand the power of lust, doesn’t mean I have any kind of approval or “understanding” of pedophiles. Of course, the OP wasn’t really why they do it, but what makes them so “special.”
I think this is key- the targeting of civilians. That and the fact that suicide bombers are more difficult to stop than your run-of-the-mill bombers make civilians feel unsafe. Thus the “Terror” of the OP.
I know I should read the rules on quoting, referencing, cutting and pasting or whatever. I’m always doing it and more often than not the stuff comes from the British magazine New Statesman. Unfortunately, so does this but it’s too relevant to ignore:
“The September 11 bombers were prepared to die spectacularly just like the gladiators would have done. And just like the gladiators who were the slaves of wealthy Romans they saw themselves occupying a lowly status. In their eyes, heroic self-destruction was their way of altering rank. They chose their violent end – they showed symptoms of both aggression and depression. This link is clear: If you are feeling angry and frustrated the aggression can turn against itself… Alternatively the aggression can turn outward and you attack others. Suicide bombers are not psychotic. They are fuelled by an overwhelming desire to regain their self-esteem, transforming failure into victory throught their spectacular end.”
My own ideas about the psychology of suicides has more to do with the concept of apoptosis - programmed cell death. It seems that without positive feedback from the rest of the body individual cells will die off. If they aren’t given indication they are necessary to the overall functioning of the organism cells self destruct. And so it is with people and society. If individuals are repeatedly given the message that they are irrelevant their “suicide programme” will be triggered. Some people could probably make the case that their death wish is based on rational, logical principles. They could cite evidence of the indifference they are shown by other people…the neglect they are subjected to and so on.
It seems to me that the easiest way for a low self -esteem Palistinian loser to instantly gratify his desire to become a hero is to blow himself up in the presence of Israelis.
What amazes me is the complete lack of discouragement from the Palistinian and greater Arab society at large. Where are the compassionate more reasonable voices (particularly the mental health professionals) that could provide help for these lost souls?