Assuming holosuite technology is available for individuals. A society might decide to restrict holosuite ownership, leaving it as a public good akin to parks. One thing we don’t know about holosuites, I don’t think, is how much energy they require. Even with clean energy as a solved problem, it might not be feasible for every family to have their own.
When your replicator can turn waste into food and water, a lot of uninhabitable land would become habitable. You don’t need an urban authority to collect garbage and supply water, you just toss garbage into the replicator’s in-box. Everyone would become self-sufficient homesteaders.
We wouldn’t even threaten the environment. When women have choices, the birthrate drops below replacement level.
Why is that important? If I want something that looks just like the Mona Lisa hanging on my wall, that’s easy to get. And yet, most people don’t have prints of the Mona Lisa on their walls. And possession of the original Mona Lisa is still considered prestigious.
I agree. But actual garbagemen don’t do it because it’s important. They do it for the paycheck.
I think (most) society would sooner wallow in its own filth than pick up after itself. Have you looked at the planet lately?
It actually isnt really that good. Mostly publicity. Mind you it is by DaVinci, so it is a nice rare piece of art.
Sure, though I’m sure there are plenty who take pride in a difficult job done well. My point is that in a fictional society where work is judged primarily by its benefit to society and not by its paycheck or required education, I think jobs like that would be much more respected and more people would want to do them.
I also think “garbagemen” is a bit of an edge case when we’re talking about civil jobs. There are certainly city planners, landscapers, park workers, and community center employees who do consider their jobs important and worth more than their paycheck.
In a civilization with replicators, we wouldn’t really need garbagemen; trash just gets converted to component atoms and fed back into the system.
I don’t.
There are a lot more garbagemen on any city’s payroll than planners. Landscapers and park workers, sure, I can see people doing that because they like gardening as a hobby. Not a lot of septic tank cleaners or sewer maintenance people doing it for fun, though, I’m sure.
Unless the replicator is automatically teleporting the trash from wherever it lies, I don’t see people being any more conscientious about cleaning up after themselves than they are now. I mean, we have bins, recycling, landfills, compost heaps now, and yet…
It’s a masterpiece. It started influencing artists before it was even finished. It uses novel techniques and executes them flawlessly. It really is that good.
And I say this as someone who prefers Pollock and Rothko.
I think what makes it a great painting at this point is primarily that it is perceived to be a great painting. It has cachet. Anyone can have a print in their house, but the original? No, it has value because there is only one and I have it. With replicators, however, one assumes it would be impossible to tell if something is an original or not, as they’re identical at the atomic level, meaning it would no longer be possible to authenticate any original painting. I suppose what would pass as special and having value in an age of replicators is that an object hasn’t (yet) been replicated.
If it gets mixed up at some point then sure, but if there’s a chain of custody and surveillance of the original, then however many replicants there are is irrelevant.
Please, that’s clearly a post-major-event situation what with the tent/booth frames in the background. In many situations like that, such as marathons or taste-of-city festivals, the organizers schedule sweeper trucks to come in so they don’t have to worry about providing and emptying so many bins. Operating that sweeper truck or in the future the Dyson Personal Backpack Vacuum Dessicator™ would be a job plenty would volunteer for.
Or let’s put it this way. For an event like a marathon, the organizer would be obligated to clean up afterwards. They already need volunteers to run registration, course marshals, pace vehicles, staging, etc., so rather than paying the city sanitation department to come in afterwards they need to get volunteers to do it. No cleanup no event, so people will step up to the plate. For general littering there just needs to be a cultural motive to compel offenders to clean up their own mess for fear of social reprisal or other sanctions. There’s no shortage of dashcam videos of people tossing someone else’s discarded bag of fast food back into the litterbug’s car now, fueled primarily by self-righteousness.
An apartment complex or neighborhood association is pressured by its residents/members to keep common areas clean, so someone will have to do it somehow. In fact, when I was in college I spent a summer quarter in Denmark. In the dorms there was a common area with a kitchen, tables, and some couches. Every week one of the residents would be tasked with cleaning it up. You’d find a packet of instructions at your door one day and you’d have to sign off that you did the tasks. That can be framed as “we all have to pitch in to do this so we don’t have to pay someone else to do it,” or “we all have to pitch in to do this otherwise it won’t get done.” It also means residents are less likely to mess up the room in the first place. Society can absolutely do this sort of thing, and much of Scandinavia, Benelux, and Japan are mostly there already.
I can find many, many more photos of ordinary city streets that look just like that. That’s just the first I found.
But my point stands, even if it was a big event - people did not take their own litter away, or even find a bin to put it in. They just dropped it in the street.
They’re not volunteering now. We know this because the organizers have to pay for sweepers…
We have this now (as well as actual judicial punishments). It does nothing to stop the tide of trash.
Why are they not doing so now? They could save their event a lot of money if they did.
There’s no prestige in picking up litter, the way there is in walking around with a clipboard or walkie-talkie, is why. That’s not going to change in this situation.
That’s not the same as tossing it into a bin. It’s just moving the litter around.
I agree there are some small segments of society who are mostly there (although - Benelux? Have you seen the canal bikes in Amsterdam?). They are vastly outnumbered by the billions who are not.
Part of the reason ordinary city streets look like that is because we don’t live in a post-scarcity society. People are tired and beat down by the daily grind of having to find a way to keep their family secure. The more beat down people are, the less interested they are in doing that little bit extra to keep things nice.
It’s also a matter of expectation. I volunteer with the Scouts, and they are expected to pickup after themselves. We enforce that expectation, and they generally speaking meet that expectation without us having to stand over them all the time. Teenagers can spend a weekend camping and when I go to review their campsite, I might find one tiny item that they left behind, and it’s just as likely to have been there before they arrived.
The same teen will leave dried up yogurt cups, game controllers and any other sort of nonsense strewed about the house in their wake, but because the expectation is set for a scout camping trip, they have the ability to meet it.
And I can point to many ordinary city streets that are perfectly clean. Now what? Also you ignored my point about such big events that they may not have bins BECAUSE they’re going to bring the sweeper through. That’s especially true at marathon feed zones where they’re handing out those little cups of Gatorade.
In no small part because you can’t volunteer to drive a street sweeper since you need access to one and training and you’re interfering with someone else’s job. In a post-scarcity future that dynamic will be different.
Enforcement of laws matters. Do you think gun laws don’t work because they haven’t stopped shootings? Should we not have traffic laws because drivers still run red lights and speed? The cultural norms are things like the people throwing litter back in the offender’s car, or shouting at someone to pick up their trash. That’s not “just moving the litter around” that’s admonishing the person doing the littering, irrespective of the law.
Europe and Japan are small segments of society? If anything the canal bikes are the weird anomaly, mostly attributable to theft and vandalism, not litter.
Agreed. “People aren’t volunteering to do this now” is not an argument for why people may do it in the future. Why volunteer if you can do it AND get money, which we need because we’re not living in a post-scarcity society. The situation in the future could very well be that putting your litter in a bin gets you credits towards going to the theater or the sportsball game or whatever. Bonus points if the bin sucks the garbage through a vacuum tube into a quantum singularity, making it more fun like using a wood chipper rather than a garbage can. Post-scarcity doesn’t mean post-incentive.
I think the affluent are just as contributive as the barely-surviving. I mean, it’s not the tired and beat-down dropping their shit in the streets after a festival.
That’s different than people just voluntarily and spontaneously doing it out of an abundance of civic pride, isn’t it now?
Sure - because we pay cleaners for that. But it’s how they look immediately after an event or how they look when the garbage workers strike, that points to how they will look when you just rely on people’s innate hatred of litter.
I’ve never been to an event that didn’t have bins. Ever. People just didn’t use them. Every marathon around here has bins. You can spot them easily - they’re surrounded by a mound of little cups or plastic drink sachets.
They can be involved before it gets to that point.
By magical fiat, apparently…
Of course. But how are you going to enforce these misdemeanour laws, absent the ability to fine?
Thosee laws still do a lot to stop the worst activities. This is not the case for littering - just look at any smoker’s corner, for instance.
As far as the litter getting into the trash (or a replicator input hopper), it is the same thing.
Wait, suddenly it’s all of Europe? Boy, do I have news for you…
And yes, compared to the USA, India and China, Scandinavia-Benelux-Japan are small segments of society.
Congrats - you’ve re-invented money.
.
I never said there wouldn’t be incentives or disincentives. This whole discussion started with what would happen when replicators remove all material needs. That doesn’t mean non-material needs go away. Professional services, sports, entertainment, art, culture, they all have limits and need allocating.
You can punish someone for littering without requiring money. Parents do it all the time. “No video games until you clean your room” for example. An illegally parked car can be booted or towed. No money needs to be exchanged to release it, the punishment is depriving you of your use of it. Litter in the park? You can’t come to the park anymore. Litter on the street? You either clean it up or spend the night in the lockup. No money necessary.
It certainly is, but ReplicatorLand doesn’t have to rely on civic pride. At least, not a nebulous, organically appearing civic pride. ReplicatorLand can actively advocate for people to keep the place clean, to pick up bits of trash they see, to tidy their little bit of the land.
Even now, when we have bigger fish to fry than tidying up after a Jazz Fest, public spaces aren’t trash strewn hellholes. Your typical middle class neighborhood is tidy, parks in middle class towns are tidy. People schedule annual or semi-annual “let’s clean up the park” volunteer days and it’s generally alright.
Add in replicator technology, and “middle class” neighborhoods will spread, volunteers to clean up the park will be more readily available.
That said, we will need a way to incentivize the septic tank repair guy, there must still be desirable things that replicators can’t give you.
Like I said, anything by DaVinci is at least very good. But the Mona Lisa is overrated-
The curator of the Louvre should take down all the “Mona Lisa” signs and promote other works. The “Mona Lisa” is a painting of status and nothing more.
It only became famous because of an unfortunate event that rocked the Louvre Museum in Paris.
True. You can find a little litter, here and there, but not much.
All those jobs will be foisted on robot slaves, naturally. They’ll revolt within a generation and go on a murderous rampage, but that’s a different issue.
That’s what the 'droids are for.
Pft, we’ll just replicate a second army of robots to fight the first army of robots.