# What sort of pope will Pope Francis be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845 "2013-03-13T19:43:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/41 "2013-03-14T02:05:03Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Let’s ask him what he was doing while the fascist junta was murdering tens of thousands in The Dirty War. I read up on that in Wiki today. Nothing against him was ever proved, but now when he’s sitting where he is, there will be reporters looking for the big scoop. Rumors were that he housed secret prisons and helped army and police officials adapt children of the “disappeared”. This was investigated in Argentina and no prosecution took place. Estimates of deaths range from just over 9,000 to 30,000. > **[Pope Francis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis)** > > God > > Schools > **[Dirty War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War#.22Annihilation_decrees.22%C2%A0)** > >  Argentina > Supported by: > The Dirty War (Spanish: Guerra sucia) is the name used by the military junta or civic-military dictatorship of Argentina (Spanish: dictadura cívico-militar de Argentina) for its period of state terrorism in Argentina from 1974 to 1983. During this campaign, military and security forces and death squads in the form of the Argentine Anticommunist Alliance (AAA, or Triple A) hunted down any political dissidents and anyone believed to be associated with socialism, left-w... ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/42 "2013-03-14T02:29:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “As cardinal, Bergoglio was appointed to several administrative positions in the Roman Curia: > Member of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments > Member of the Congregation for the Clergy. > Member of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life > Member of the Pontifical Council for the Family > Member of the Commission for Latin America” All cardinals get appointed to be “members” of various congegations and commissions; you can’t avoid it, but it doesn’t make you a curia insider. The people who run the show are the secretaries, president, prefects, etc of these bodies, and they report to the pope, not to the members. “Member” is basically an unpaid part-time advisory position; it does bring you to Rome from time to time, but your day job is running your diocese in your home country. This guy is not a curia insider. That means that, on the one hand, the people who know where the bodies are buried will probably have nothing on him. On the other hand, he may lack the knowledge and/or the skills he would need to take on the curia effectively, and work real change. Time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/43 "2013-03-14T02:46:24Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Xavier notwhitstanding, the majority of the body of the faithful have one very particular Saint’s picture in their minds when they hear “Francis”… and indeed if so that is one bar set stupendously high. It’s not just set high, it’s set . . interesting. Francis was a radical, a mystic, and arguably a heretic. He didn’t minister to the poor, he became poor, an encouraged others to follow suit. He was never ordained: he was very clearly an outsider, and arguably the Mendicant orders were only given official endorsement in an attempt to establish some sort of control over a movement that looked to pose a serious threat to the church otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/44 "2013-03-14T03:07:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **RTFirefly** : > > The present and recent past are easy to predict - the RCC already has married priests. Of course, they’re the ones who’ve converted from being Episcopalians. I meant, mainstream married priests, not a handful of rare exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/45 "2013-03-14T03:57:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I wouldn’t be too surprised to see married priests within a decade or two. I would. I’d be very surprised. The church moves at the pace of a snail on Nyquil. It ain’t gonna be happening any time soon. Of course, Francis could surprise us all and declare Vatican III. (No one expected John XXIII to do what he did!) We just don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/46 "2013-03-14T04:35:23Z")
> [@For You](#): > > I was using one of those translate things, it seems like the grammar is better as “… idem quod est”, but that screws up the nice meter. (Not sure why it gave me “culus” for “Pope”, but that is what I kept getting.) I thought that was your joke. Just in case—_culus_ is “ass” or “asshole”. I might say _ecce novus papa; cum priore idem est_, but IANFILC (I am not fluent in Latin composition.) Nothing wrong with _idem qui_, though for _quod_ you’d need a neuter. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/47 "2013-03-14T04:35:37Z")
I’m not counting of Banquet of Chestnuts, part II. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/48 "2013-03-14T04:43:06Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I thought that was your joke. Just in case—_culus_ is “ass” or “asshole”. Well, he was elected on March the 13th: exactly 232 years after Herschel discovered Uranus. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/49 "2013-03-14T04:47:53Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > He’s just as conservative as the last pope, but hopefully he’s less tainted by the pedophilia scandal. Ratzinger’s crew was up to their necks in it. Latin America hasn’t had as much of an issue with it. IIRC, as far as sex scandals go the Third World has been more into having scandals where priests raped nuns instead of kids, then coerced them into getting abortions. Probably because that’s where most of the young nuns are. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/50 "2013-03-14T05:02:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > IIRC, as far as sex scandals go the Third World has been more into having scandals where priests raped nuns instead of kids, then coerced them into getting abortions. Probably because that’s where most of the young nuns are. Are you saying that Argentina is Third World? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/51 "2013-03-14T05:04:13Z")
Maybe somebody told him to lighten up. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/52 "2013-03-14T05:22:57Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Are you saying that Argentina is Third World? [Yes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World), or so I’ve always understood. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/53 "2013-03-14T05:35:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Yes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World), or so I’ve always understood. Ah, interesting, I never saw the term defined before. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/54 "2013-03-14T05:39:36Z")
Though that’s the origin of the term, most people wouldn’t consider Mozambique or the Congo a first-world country, nor Argentina and Sweden third-world countries. One of those maybe-technically-correct-but-more-confusing-than-it’s-worth things. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/55 "2013-03-14T05:47:12Z")
Yes. And furthermoer, by that definition the original claim (“the Third World has been more into having scandals where priests raped nuns instead of kids, then coerced them into getting abortions”) doesn’t stand up so well. I think the truth of the matter is that claims about priests raping nuns and forcing them to have abortions mostly refer to Africa. The ones I’ve heard do, anyway. You could argue that most or all of the African countries concerned are Third World in the underdeveloped sense, if not in the political sense. But, whever senses you use, it may be a bit of a stretch to suggest that they are particularly relevant to the Archbishop of Buenos Aires, which is not in a country normally regarded as underdeveloped, and is nowhere near Africa. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/56 "2013-03-14T06:40:46Z")
“First Jesuit Pope” according to our local news. I always thought Ratzinger was Jesuit? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/57 "2013-03-14T06:57:47Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > “First Jesuit Pope” according to our local news. I always thought Ratzinger was Jesuit? Nope. Not a member of any religious order. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/58 "2013-03-14T07:24:18Z")
Most of the scandals in Latin America have to do with liberation theologists vs. right wing governments. (Think of Archbishop Romero) They’re more about politics than they are about sex. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/59 "2013-03-14T07:35:27Z")
> [@For You](#): > > This new guy was/is a Jesuit, meaning he had some involvement in _education_, which tends to center on _young-ish males_, so keep clear of the fan, folks. According to Wikipedia, he taught literature and psychology for two years at a Catholic high school in Santa Fe (Argentina), and the same in Buenos Aires for another year, after joining a Jesuit seminary but prior to his being ordained a priest. Not exactly the age group or position of authority that tends to be associated with Church sex abuse scandals, and if he engaged in any improprieties during his time there then they have not come to the attention of the Wikiverse. I’m not a Catholic in any way, shape, or form, but as far as I can tell he looks like a pretty decent guy. I don’t agree with his stance on gays, abortion, birth control, or euthanasia (not that there’s _ever_ going to be a pope I agree with on those matters), but his interest in social justice and the plight of the poor seems to be genuine, and he seems like the kind of guy who would be able to reign in corruption and worldliness within the Church. Color me cautiously optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845/60 "2013-03-14T07:46:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Meet the new pope, same as the old pope. Har har, I thought exactly the same thing 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-sort-of-pope-will-pope-francis-be/652845.md?page=4)