# What specific type of drone may have been used in the Saudi refinery attacks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 15, 2019, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-specific-type-of-drone-may-have-been-used-in-the-saudi-refinery-attacks/840247 "2019-09-15T04:17:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-specific-type-of-drone-may-have-been-used-in-the-saudi-refinery-attacks/840247/1 "2019-09-15T04:17:28Z")
There may not be a ready answer, but I thought I’d give it a shot anyway. The US government is accusing Iran of either providing the drones that carried out the recent attracks on Saudi refineries, or of carrying out the attacks themselves. I’m curious what type or types of Iranian UAVs might have the required capability, which seems to be a) at least 500km range; 2) ability to launch offensive weapons either autonomously or via remote command; 3) a history of having been used by the Yemeni Houthis, who have claimed responsibility. Wikipedia [has a list of known Iranian UAVs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unmanned_aerial_vehicles_of_Iran), but I looked at the individual linked pages and nothing really jumped out as likely. Anyone have any light they could shed? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-specific-type-of-drone-may-have-been-used-in-the-saudi-refinery-attacks/840247/2 "2019-09-15T04:49:01Z")
I don’t have an answer, but here are two articles on military drone proliferation as a whole, with significant sections in both on Iran’s indigenous military drone production. [https://rusi.org/sites/default/files/20181207\_armed\_drones\_middle\_east\_web.pdf](https://rusi.org/sites/default/files/20181207_armed_drones_middle_east_web.pdf) And [Unmanned Ambitions - Peace Organization PAX](https://www.paxforpeace.nl/publications/all-publications/unmanned-ambitions) Lots of cites in both for further reading. Most of the drones listed look like Predator/Reaper knockoffs, IMHO. Per both papers, China’s sold a bunch to all of the entities in the region. (Maybe not the Houthis or Daesh, officially.) A lot of the analysis is focused on multi-use capability, which generally requires ground control, which limits the range listed for the drones in both papers. If the entity accepts losing the drone to complete the mission, then really it’s more in the category of a (slow) surface-to-surface missile. A drone the size of Predator is needed if it needs 40 hours of endurance while carrying a bunch of cameras, radios, and a few missiles/GPS guided munitions. Cut the required endurance to an hour or three (300 km / 100- 150 km/hr), make the entire drone the warhead, and I’d think you can make the platform quite a bit smaller. Give it GPS guidance—oil production machinery doesn’t move—and who needs ground guidance? Alternatively, use a UAV the size of an Iranian -129, and stuff explosive where fuel used to go. Anyway, the papers won’t answer your question that I can tell, but some of the info and cites within them might help. ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-specific-type-of-drone-may-have-been-used-in-the-saudi-refinery-attacks/840247/3 "2019-09-15T04:51:53Z")
I’m no expert, but you may wish to consider these possibilities: [Ya-Ali](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya-Ali_(missile)) [Soumar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soumar_(missile)) [Hoveyzeh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoveyzeh_(cruise_missile)) [Meshkat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meshkat_(missile)) The Ya-Ali, FWIW, was used by the Houthis earlier this year to attach a Saudi airport, according to that first citation. But I’m just WAG-ing, is all. ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-specific-type-of-drone-may-have-been-used-in-the-saudi-refinery-attacks/840247/4 "2019-09-15T05:02:38Z")
But then there’s also [this](https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/14/middleeast/yemen-houthi-rebels-drone-attacks-saudi-aramco-intl/index.html) to consider: > [@](#): > > (CNN) – Yemen’s Houthi rebels have attacked Saudi Arabia’s oil facilities with drones, the Houthi-run Al-Masirah news agency said Saturday. > > A Yemen armed forces spokesman was quoted by the agency as saying the Houthis successfully carried out a “large-scale” operation with 10 drones targeting Saudi Aramco oil facilities in Abqaiq and Khurais. > > But preliminary indications are that the attacks Saturday that disrupted about half of the kingdom’s oil capacity did not originate from Yemen and likely originated from Iraq, according to a source with knowledge of the incident. The same official said the damage was caused by an armed drone attack. > > CNN National Security Analyst Peter Bergen said there have been more than 200 drone attacks launched by Houthi rebels from Yemen into Saudi Arabia, and none have been as effective as Saturday’s attack, lending credence to the belief that the attack did not originate from Yemen. > > \ > > James Rogers, a security expert with expertise in drones and a visiting research fellow at the Department of International Security Studies at Yale University, said the United Nations has been investigating the drones, which have a range of 1,450 kilometers (900 miles). He said the range means that Houthi forces can target sites in Saudi Arabia from their stronghold in Yemen. > > “It is quite an impressive, yet worrying, technological feat,” he said. “Long-range precision strikes are not easy to achieve and to cause the substantial fires in Abqaiq and Khurais highlights that this drone has a large explosive yield.” … ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-specific-type-of-drone-may-have-been-used-in-the-saudi-refinery-attacks/840247/5 "2019-09-15T06:29:17Z")
I am curious about this as well. Could it be modified kit drones that use a servo to drop and prime incendiaries to ignite the oil reservoirs? Would need deployment in close proximity though as the range of those are likely extremely limited. I am just speculating though. It’s just a bit fishy that a drone deployed by Iran, launched from Iraq would not be detected by radar and other means of surveillance and assuredly dodge at least Russian S200-S400 or Patriot missile batteries, _ **Especially** _ in a region where Royals live and their primary source of wealth and export is located. More speculation: Iran didn’t do this or authorize this, Houthi rebels that have been given arms by Iran did. That doesn’t exactly make them responsible. Pompeo is jumping the gun and trying to start a war? Wouldn’t a drone large enough to be able to fly that mileage be able to be detected with ease? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-specific-type-of-drone-may-have-been-used-in-the-saudi-refinery-attacks/840247/6 "2019-09-15T13:52:41Z")
Thanks to all for the links and suggestions. > [@anomalous1](#): > > I am curious about this as well. > > Could it be modified kit drones that use a servo to drop and prime incendiaries to ignite the oil reservoirs? Would need deployment in close proximity though as the range of those are likely extremely limited. I am just speculating though. It’s just a bit fishy that a drone deployed by Iran, launched from Iraq would not be detected by radar and other means of surveillance and assuredly dodge at least Russian S200-S400 or Patriot missile batteries, _ **Especially** _ in a region where Royals live and their primary source of wealth and export is located. More speculation: Iran didn’t do this or authorize this, Houthi rebels that have been given arms by Iran did. That doesn’t exactly make them responsible. Pompeo is jumping the gun and trying to start a war? Wouldn’t a drone large enough to be able to fly that mileage be able to be detected with ease? The large refineries that were attacked, so far as I know, do not have any uncovered oil storage, so incendiaries would not do much. More likely they used high explosive charges of some sort, although simply crashing the drones into storage tanks or piping could potentially do significant damage This attack does suggest some serious deficiencies exist in the Saudi air defense system. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-specific-type-of-drone-may-have-been-used-in-the-saudi-refinery-attacks/840247/7 "2019-09-15T14:06:39Z")
What is the orthodox way to take out an oil refinery? Cruise missiles? Gravity bombs?