# What stupid shit do you have to believe to be a conservative today? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660 "2010-04-10T19:22:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/1 "2010-04-10T19:22:10Z")
I was just peeking in at the Obama / Palin Nuclear thread and it made me wonder. What are the large chunks of stupidity that conservatives are supposed to believe today? By this I mean things that are factually not true and are overwhelmingly championed by the right. I don’t want opinions, like say on abortion, but actually factual stupidity that conservatives just sort of pretend is true. The examples I can think of are: [ul] [li]Global Warming is a lie, or some kind of plot or something.[/li][li]Keynesian stimulation in a deep recession is bad or something.[/li][li]Saddam was behind 911 (as of a few years ago at least)[/li][li]Marxism, Fascism, Communism, Maoism and Islamism are all the same thing and they’re what Obama is doing.[/li][li]Birthers[/li][/ul] Anyone have a more exhaustive list? And as a reminder, I don’t mean everyone conservative has to believe it, but say 50% or more. And please, anyone is welcome to start a companion liberal thread, but let’s keep this tidy. Kay? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/2 "2010-04-10T19:28:32Z")
Hows about you start with cites that 50% or more of “conservatives” believe all the things on your list. And why do you have something in your list that you seem to admit was true “a few years ago”, when you are asking about "today’? I mean, I know you’re strictly impartial and what a completely non-partisan debate and all. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/3 "2010-04-10T19:33:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hows about you start with cites that 50% or more of “conservatives” believe all the things on your list. And why do you have something in your list that you seem to admit was true “a few years ago”, when you are asking about "today’? Because a quick scan only found info that was from 2003. > [@](#): > > I mean, I know you’re strictly impartial and what a completely non-partisan debate and all. Right? I’d like a list of the stupid nonsense that conservatives currently believe. I imagine the debate would be about the quality of the particulars on the list. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/4 "2010-04-10T19:42:14Z")
That gays marrying will bring the country to ruin. That corporations are kind and benevolent and if we just let them do whatever they want everything will work out wonderfully. That people on welfare are living a life of luxury and excess because why would you want to work when you can live like a queen from the hard work of real americans. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/5 "2010-04-10T19:51:52Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because a quick scan only found info that was from 2003. So, are we debating 2003 or “today”? > [@](#): > > I’d like a list of the stupid nonsense that conservatives currently believe. I imagine the debate would be about the quality of the particulars on the list. So, should I take that as a “no”, you’re not offering any cites for your claims? > [@DigitalC](#): > > ``` > That gays marrying will bring the country to ruin. That corporations are kind and benevolent and if we just let them do whatever they want everything will work out wonderfully. That people on welfare are living a life of luxury and excess because why would you want to work when you can live like a queen from the hard work of real americans. > > ``` Same request-- cite? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/6 "2010-04-10T19:51:58Z")
For a stimulus package to work, when people receive that money, they need to go out and use it. If they simply lock it away in a safe for “when things improve”, then you’ve simply devalued the currency and not produced a stimulus. And of course, devaluing the money creates further decline in market confidence, as well as expanding debt. If people believe that a Keynesian stimulus won’t work, it actually won’t. If the stimulus creates such a large debt that you depress the economy after the stimulus has taken effect, then you also haven’t really solved anything. Ultimately, a financial stimulus is just a mind-game being played on people who are presumed to be too stupid to go out and do what’s good for themselves. Increasing or decreasing the supply of money doesn’t change actually anything except the price of stuff on the label. A shoe that costs $100 in an economy of $5 trillion is just the same as a shoe that costs $200 in an economy of $10 trillion. And on the downside, it is a bit of a gamble of whether it will actually work, if it will produce no particular effect, or if it will make things worse. The largest factor in the success is how good a job you did of selling the populace at large on its ability to fix things. If the other guy has a better ad campaign, he might well be able to kill its efficacy or even turn it to the worst. If you can convince people to stop being stupid, you produce the same effect without the gamble. So on the one hand, Republicans are wrong that a stimulus can’t work. But on the other hand, they may well be right that it won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/7 "2010-04-10T19:56:43Z")
From my list: [ul] [li][Global Warming is a lie, or some kind of plot or something.](http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1386/cap-and-trade-global-warming-opinion) A majority disbelieve AGW.[/li][li][Keynesian stimulation in a deep recession is bad or something.](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/general_business/february_2010/americans_reject_keynesian_economics)More Republicans than others believe in this nonsense.[/li][li]Saddam was behind 911 (as of a few years ago at least) The most recent poll I can find with differentiated conservative / other numbers is as of 2004. However as of 2007 41% of Americans thought that. I’d say that it’s pretty likely that the lions share of those numbnuts are on the conservative side.[/li][li][Marxism, Fascism, Communism, Maoism and Islamism are all the same thing and they’re what Obama is doing.](http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-03-22/scary-new-gop-poll/)This is of republicans, not overarching conservatives, so weigh it appropriately.[/li][li]Birthers See above.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/8 "2010-04-10T20:11:38Z")
How about that evolution isn’t the scientific consensus? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/9 "2010-04-10T20:15:26Z")
You have to believe you and your buddies make up a majority of all Americans, even when you keep losing elections. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/10 "2010-04-10T20:17:02Z")
[quote=“Lobohan, post:7, topic:535660”] From my list: [ul] [li][Global Warming is a lie, or some kind of plot or something.](http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1386/cap-and-trade-global-warming-opinion) A majority disbelieve AGW.[/li][/quote] OK. That was a gimme, though. 😉 [quote] [li][Keynesian stimulation in a deep recession is bad or something.](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/general_business/february_2010/americans_reject_keynesian_economics)More Republicans than others believe in this nonsense.[/li][/quote] OK, now can we have a cite that this is “stupid”? [quote] [li]Saddam was behind 911 (as of a few years ago at least) The most recent poll I can find with differentiated conservative / other numbers is as of 2004. However as of 2007 41% of Americans thought that. I’d say that it’s pretty likely that the lions share of those numbnuts are on the conservative side.[/li][/quote] Not according to [CBS in Sept '07:](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/12/opinion/pollpositions/main3253552.shtml) > [@](#): > > Another reason could involve feelings about the Iraq war itself, and the importance of reducing cognitive dissonance. The Iraq War has become a partisan issue - three in four Republicans say going to war was the right thing to do, while three in four Democrats say it was not. Nearly half of those who now say the Iraq war was the right thing to do connect 9/11 with Saddam. Consequently, 40 percent of Republicans believe Saddam was involved in 9/11, while just 27 percent of Democrats do. [quote=Lobohan] [li][Marxism, Fascism, Communism, Maoism and Islamism are all the same thing and they’re what Obama is doing.](http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-03-22/scary-new-gop-poll/)This is of republicans, not overarching conservatives, so weigh it appropriately.[/li][/quote] Can you explicitly quote the part which proves your assertion? > [@](#): > > [li]Birthers See above.[/li][/ul] Your cite says 45%. Have you moved the goalposts? I would say that you 2nd to the last assertion is at least as “stupid” as some of the things you are accusing conservatives of. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/11 "2010-04-10T20:19:26Z")
Ah. Moved to the BBQ Pit. How shocking… Carry on! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/12 "2010-04-10T20:21:00Z")
“Stupid shit” believed by the political opposition seems like more of a Pit topic to me. Moved from Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/13 "2010-04-10T20:25:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “Stupid shit” believed by the political opposition seems like more of a Pit topic to me. It’s not a term of art? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/14 "2010-04-10T20:32:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK. That was a gimme, though. 😉 I try to open with the sure shot. 😃 > [@](#): > > OK, now can we have a cite that this is “stupid”? The majority of economists think it’s a good idea. Non economists sort of have to go by that. > [@](#): > > Not according to [CBS in Sept '07:](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/12/opinion/pollpositions/main3253552.shtml) How awesome. I’m willing to agree that believing Saddam was behind 911 is only optional for being a mainstream conservative. > [@](#): > > Can you explicitly quote the part which proves your assertion? I was trying to cover the socialist Muslim legs. I think it would be hard to find a cite for all, but certainly there is a lot of confusion and misuse of those terms on the right. Finding a cite that is solid may be impossible, but I can point to tea-party signage at least. Other than that I’m willing to say that other than a majority believing he is a socialist-muslim I can’t back up the remainder. > [@](#): > > Your cite says 45%. Have you moved the goalposts? More of a nudge. I thought that cite had a _not sure_ section (which I think for this purpose would count), but it was actually from here: [http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58\_of\_GOP\_not\_suredont\_beleive\_Obama\_born\_in\_US.html](http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.html) Be that as it may, an awful lot of them believe something that has been proven wrong over and over again, factually. > [@](#): > > I would say that you 2nd to the last assertion is at least as “stupid” as some of the things you are accusing conservatives of. . Is it? Meh, I’d disagree. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/15 "2010-04-10T20:36:52Z")
I’m not sure what the OP is getting at. I lean somewhat conservative, mostly with regards to wanting less government in my life, minimal taxation, a strong military and primarily, fiscal responsibility WRT government spending. I believe in evolution, abortion, legalization of marijuana, that global warming exists (although I think the degree as to how much of it is from humans and how much is cyclical is debatable), I believe Obama is an American citizen (I voted for the guy!), I believe Sarah Palin is nuts and that the Republican Party by and large has come off the rails from overindulging on a fundamentalist and stupid voting base. I’m not sure what that makes me. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/16 "2010-04-10T20:42:30Z")
Examples: [1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12325413&postcount=6) [2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12325415&postcount=7) [3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12325497&postcount=12) [4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12325649&postcount=14) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/17 "2010-04-10T20:46:58Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The majority of economists think it’s a good idea. Non economists sort of have to go by that. [Really?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932009_Keynesian_resurgence#The_Keynesian_resurgence_in_academia) > [@](#): > > The Keynesian resurgence in academia > > With a few notable exceptions - such as Robert Shiller, James K. Galbraith and Paul Krugman among others - the Keynesian resurgence has been largely driven by policy makers rather than academic economists. Until very recently mainstream economists have not generally favoured robust counter-cyclical fiscal policies. While the school of thought known as New Keynesian economics has dominated the teaching of macroeconomics at universities, New Keynesians largely believed that monetary policy was enough to stabilize the economy, and largely rejected the case for interventionist fiscal policy which Keynes had advocated. Some economists (primarily post-Keynesians) have accused the New Keynesian system of being so integrated with pro-free market neo-classical influences that the label ‘Keynesian’ may be considered a misnomer.[88] > > Yet there has been a shift in thinking amongst many mainstream economists, paralleling the resurgence of Keynesianism among policy makers. The New York Times reported that in the 2008 annual meeting of the American Economic Association mainstream economists remained hostile or at least sceptical about the government’s role in enhancing the market sector or mitigating recession with fiscal stimulus - but in the 2009 meeting virtually everyone voiced their support for such measures.[89] However a substantial shift in opinion is less obvious in the academic literature. Speaking in March 2009, Galbraith has stated that he has not detected any changes among academic economists, nor a re-examination of orthodox opinion in the journals.[90] > > The 2008 financial crisis has led some in the economic profession to pay greater attention to Keynes’s original theories. In February 2009, Robert Shiller and George Akerlof argued in their book Animal Spirits that the current US stimulus package was too small, as it does not take into account loss of confidence or do enough to restore the availability of credit. In a September 2009 article for The New York Times, on the lessons economists should learn from the crisis, Paul Krugman urged economists to move away from neoclassical models and employ Keynesian analysis:[91] So, no, holding the opposing view is not “stupid”. In fact, it’s unclear that the economic consensus is what you say it is. > [@](#): > > How awesome. I’m willing to agree that believing Saddam was behind 911 is only optional for being a mainstream conservative. OK. From my cite, it’s also “optional” for being a Democrat (liberal). > [@](#): > > I was trying to cover the socialist Muslim legs. But even with that, you cite doesn’t say they think it’s the same thing. > [@](#): > > I think it would be hard to find a cite for all, but certainly there is a lot of confusion and misuse of those terms on the right. Finding a cite that is solid may be impossible, but I can point to tea-party signage at least. Other than that I’m willing to say that other than a majority believing he is a socialist-muslim I can’t back up the remainder. I think you need to define what a “conservative” is. You seem to pick whatever definition, at the time, supports whatever assertion you make. > [@](#): > > More of a nudge. I thought that cite had a _not sure_ section (which I think for this purpose would count), but it was actually from here: [http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58\_of\_GOP\_not\_suredont\_beleive\_Obama\_born\_in\_US.html](http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.html) > > Be that as it may, an awful lot of them believe something that has been proven wrong over and over again, factually. Your cite say 28%. So, hardly a necessary requirement. > [@](#): > > . Is it? Meh, I’d disagree. Can you find even one person who believes that? That being a Muslim is the same as being a communist? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/18 "2010-04-10T20:51:33Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I’m not sure what that makes me. A person who will be holding his nose and voting Democrat for the foreseeable future? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/19 "2010-04-10T20:53:50Z")
That they can afford two non winable wars but not healthcare reform? That GWBush was not an embarrassment as a president? That socialized medicine will inevitably lead to standing in line for bread and goosestepping in the streets? That there were weapons of mass destruction? That in the fullness of time, GWBush will be appreciated as good president? That TeaPartiers aren’t racist idiots, they are just spelling challenged? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/20 "2010-04-10T20:57:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > How about that evolution isn’t the scientific consensus? Oh it’s the scientific consensus alright. The conservative view however is that the scientific community _willfully ignores evidence that evolution isn’t true out of an atheist bias_. :rolleyes: How about “if we only abandon the mistakes we made in the 60s and 70s, the glory days of the 50s will return because America is the perfect society”? :rolleyes::rolleyes: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660.md?page=2)