# What stupid shit do you have to believe to be a conservative today? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660 "2010-04-10T19:22:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/101 "2010-04-12T17:27:50Z")
If you believe the Supreme Court is making fair and reasonable decisions, you a conservative.If you believe Thomas was a wise choice, you are a conservative. If you believe Roberts will give any attention to arguments that favor workers, you are a conservative. If you think this court is not an activist court, you are a conservative. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/102 "2010-04-12T18:06:38Z")
Speaking as a liberal, I have to agree with **Bricker** that this entire thread, based on its title, is operating under a very shady premise. If we want to have another “some conservatives believe dumb things, durr durr durr” thread, that’s fine. But the way it’s presented is exactly the kind of vaguely deniable blanket accusation crap that I always get pissed off at **Shodan** for pulling. When **Shodan** says “the usual suspects all do X”, and I know that “the usual suspects” are SDMB liberals, and I’m an SDMB liberal, I feel like he’s accusing me of X, but of course he isn’t doing so specifically so doesn’t have to defend his accusation, but still gets to have basically made it. If a thread is titled “stupid shit you have to believe to be a conservative”, it’s clearly accusing all conservatives of believing all this shit, but then when a clear conservative claims he doesn’t believe it, suddenly we weren’t accusing him at all? Horsey-talk. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/103 "2010-04-12T18:21:10Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Speaking as a liberal, I have to agree with **Bricker** that this entire thread, based on its title, is operating under a very shady premise. > > If we want to have another “some conservatives believe dumb things, durr durr durr” thread, that’s fine. But the way it’s presented is exactly the kind of vaguely deniable blanket accusation crap that I always get pissed off at **Shodan** for pulling. > > When **Shodan** says “the usual suspects all do X”, and I know that “the usual suspects” are SDMB liberals, and I’m an SDMB liberal, I feel like he’s accusing me of X, but of course he isn’t doing so specifically so doesn’t have to defend his accusation, but still gets to have basically made it. If a thread is titled “stupid shit you have to believe to be a conservative”, it’s clearly accusing all conservatives of believing all this shit, but then when a clear conservative claims he doesn’t believe it, suddenly we weren’t accusing him at all? Horsey-talk. I did try to make clear in the OP what I mean. Would you have preferred the title, “What stupid shit do most conservatives believe?” or “What stupid shit is integral to conservative worldviews in a general and non-specific way, while allowing for individual conservatives to have different views?” Conservative thought currently is largely based on factual things _that are not true_. That’s really what I’m looking for. Not believing in AGW is moronic as it’s the vast scientific consensus. Thinking that cutting the deficit in a steep recession is smart is factually not the case. Thinking that Obama was born in Africa is factually not true. Thinking that HCR has death panels is factually not true. Thinking that the HCR allowed illegal aliens care or free abortions is factually not true. That kind of stuff is what I’m looking for. I’m sure you will forgive the hyperbole in the title. I would have thought that the vulgarity would have made it obvious. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/104 "2010-04-12T19:23:33Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I did try to make clear in the OP what I mean. Would you have preferred the title, “What stupid shit do most conservatives believe?” or “What stupid shit is integral to conservative worldviews in a general and non-specific way, while allowing for individual conservatives to have different views?” I would have thought the exchange you and I had on the first page would have made that clear. I think those guys jumped in late, and didn’t read that part. They should go back and re-read it. Sure, your thread title is deceptive, but that’s not all that unusual around here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/105 "2010-04-12T19:32:40Z")
And now for the second part: > [@Lobohan](#): > > Conservative thought currently is largely based on factual things _that are not true_. That’s really what I’m looking for. In order to advance that thesis, you should first define what the key elements of “conservative thought” is. What it seems like you did was go fishing for some examples that you thought were not true, and then threw them up as “conservative thought”. You’re going about it backwards-- assuming the conclusion, and then looking for anything that supports it. > [@](#): > > Not believing in AGW is moronic as it’s the vast scientific consensus. That I can agree with. > [@](#): > > Thinking that cutting the deficit in a steep recession is smart is factually not the case. Now we’re getting more into the area of opinion, and where economists will disagree. It also depends on what you are trying to accomplish. However, it’s unclear to me that that thought is fundamental to conservative thought. > [@](#): > > Thinking that Obama was born in Africa is factually not true. Agreed, although not fundamental to “conservative thought”. > [@](#): > > Thinking that HCR has death panels is factually not true. Agreed, although not fundamental to “conservative thought”. > [@](#): > > Thinking that the HCR allowed illegal aliens care or free abortions is factually not true. Disagree here. The issue is not whether Obamacare will allow illegal aliens to get care as to whether it will prevent them from doing so. It won’t, as there is no mechanism in place to do so-- they get emergency room care just like they do now. But again, this is nit picking one point of opposition raised relative to one piece of legislation. It’s not something that I see as fundamental to “conservative thought”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/106 "2010-04-12T19:33:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > To be fair, he said in the OP that he’s looking for \> 50% believe “X”. Oops. Well, I guess the only shitbag here is me, honest but completely unobservant. :smack: I apologize, **Lobohan**. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/107 "2010-04-12T19:35:11Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Sorry retard. If that were the case there would be no conservatives anywhere. We have to look at what large amounts of the group think. Jesus you’re a fucking moron. > > I’m not whining. I’m depressed that a sociopath with a bag of shit where his brain should be is allowed to practice law in this country. > > Oh, no, I explained what I was thinking in my OP. Read it, why don’t you. > > When you’re investigating the reasoning of pigs, I expect a little pigshit. 😃 > > Since you’re too fucking stupid to understand things said plain. Lets go with majority views. Although for our purposes anything over say, 40% should still be troubling, in my opinion. Yes, to all of the above. I admit it – you explained perfectly, and I didn’t read it carefully. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/108 "2010-04-12T19:36:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Oops. > > Well, I guess the only shitbag here is me, honest but completely unobservant. :smack: > > I apologize, **Lobohan**. And to be fair to you, a lot of anti-conservatives in this thread did exactly the same thing-- jumping with some anecdote they had observed that some conservatives might believe. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/109 "2010-04-12T19:37:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, to all of the above. I admit it – you explained perfectly, and I didn’t read it carefully. Did you really have to steal all the thunder out of my intarweb-rage? Not cool. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/110 "2010-04-12T19:37:25Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > But the OP/thread is specific to Conservatives. Most of them believe God exists, therefore that is an answer to the OP’s question. How about believeing in Biblical inerrancy? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/111 "2010-04-12T19:38:57Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > How about believeing in Biblical inerrancy? How about it? Do you have any data that says \> 50% of conservatives hold that view? Not saying you’re wrong, but you gotta give us more than just your statement, above. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/112 "2010-04-12T19:44:18Z")
OK, having been thoroughly humilated on basic reading, let’s see if I can try again with my glasses on. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Conservative thought currently is largely based on factual things _that are not true_. That’s really what I’m looking for. Not believing in AGW is moronic as it’s the vast scientific consensus. Yes, with an asterisk and a caveat. There’s no question that AGW is the strongly-held consensus, but all but it’s most wild-eyed adherents would not claim it’s 100% certain that all the parade of horribles claimed for it will happen. So to me, one question is: how certain are we? Prior to the East Anglia debacle, I would have said (and did, I think, in earlier threads) that we’re probably 95% certain that our models are reasonably correct. In light of the insight into bad science there, I’d say we’re slightly less than 95% certain. We’re still pretty freakin’ certain. > [@](#): > > Thinking that cutting the deficit in a steep recession is smart is factually not the case. I don’t agreee that 40% of conservatives would sign on to this statement, and I don’t agree it’s definitively true. > [@](#): > > Thinking that Obama was born in Africa is factually not true. Agreed. > [@](#): > > Thinking that HCR has death panels is factually not true. Agreed with qnother asterisk. If “death panel” refers to some method of rationing care, then of course HCR has them, just like any other form of medical care does. > [@](#): > > Thinking that the HCR allowed illegal aliens care or free abortions is factually not true. I would be very surprised if some early notions of the final bill included abortion subsidies, so that women who could not pay for one could get a free abortion. Equally true, however, is the fact that the final bill did not have anysuch language. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/113 "2010-04-12T19:45:51Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Social Conservatives seem to be religiously motivated, and believe pretty much what you’d expect based on their creed. They wish the government would enforce this creed. I’m not really comfortable calling them conservatives, because I think the idea of letting the government define morality is anti-conservative. Nonsense. “Conservative” means either, “tightly regulated” or, “in keeping with traditional mores”. The Religious Right’s agenda is the best example of conservatism that you can cite. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/114 "2010-04-12T19:50:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How about it? Do you have any data that says \> 50% of conservatives hold that view? > > Not saying you’re wrong, but you gotta give us more than just your statement, above. I have a Rassmussen link suggesting that at the least it’s above 50% in the south. Although one would note that it is also above 50% for democrats in those areas. > **[75% in Arkansas, Alabama Believe Bible Literally True](https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2006/75_in_arkansas_alabama_believe_bible_literally_true)** > > Not surprisingly, the Bible Belt region lives up to its name with states like Alabama, Arkansas, Tennessee and West Virginia containing the highest percentage of those who believe the Bible is literally true. I’ve been unable to find anything that is national that breaks down by party affiliation. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/115 "2010-04-12T19:54:57Z")
Well, point of fact, one doesn’t have to believe much of anything to be a Republican, you simply have to like things to remain pretty much as they are. That doesn’t require any idealism at all, nor does it require a political philosophy. One might have nothing but the utterest contempt for the TBs and their opinions, and still find them useful. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/116 "2010-04-12T19:55:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I have a Rassmussen link suggesting that at the least it’s above 50% in the south. Although one would note that it is also above 50% for democrats in those areas. > > [75% in Arkansas, Alabama Believe Bible Literally True - Rasmussen Reports®](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2006/75_in_arkansas_alabama_believe_bible_literally_true) > > I’ve been unable to find anything that is national that breaks down by party affiliation. That’s a tough one, too, in the sense that a lot of people might answer “yes” because that’s what they think they are supposed to say. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/117 "2010-04-12T20:02:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How about it? Do you have any data that says \> 50% of conservatives hold that view? > > Not saying you’re wrong, but you gotta give us more than just your statement, above. I did phrase it as a question, y’know. I will say, however, that it’s not so much how many conservatives believe in Biblical inerrancey, but that it’s part of the very definition of conservatism (in the US anyway). If you don’t believe in Biblical inerrancy, then you’re being _liberal_ on a very key issue. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/118 "2010-04-12T20:07:04Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > I did phrase it as a question, y’know. OK. > [@](#): > > I will say, however, that it’s not so much how many conservatives believe in Biblical inerrancey, but that it’s part of the very definition of conservatism (in the US anyway). I’ve never hear that before. On what do you base that? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/119 "2010-04-12T20:36:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, point of fact, one doesn’t have to believe much of anything to be a Republican, you simply have to like things to remain pretty much as they are. I think a more accurate way to put it would be to say that conservatives don’t want things to change in ways that, from our perspective, are likely to make things worse. Technological and medical advancements, for example, we are quite cool with; creating a nanny-state government endlessly trying to hammer the square peg of “fairness” through the round hole of reality, and telling us what we can and can’t do and can and can’t have, would be examples of change we are not so cool with. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660/120 "2010-04-12T20:47:54Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I’m not sure what the OP is getting at. I lean somewhat conservative, mostly with regards to wanting less government in my life, minimal taxation, a strong military and primarily, fiscal responsibility WRT government spending. > > I believe in evolution, abortion, legalization of marijuana, that global warming exists (although I think the degree as to how much of it is from humans and how much is cyclical is debatable), I believe Obama is an American citizen (I voted for the guy!), I believe Sarah Palin is nuts and that the Republican Party by and large has come off the rails from overindulging on a fundamentalist and stupid voting base. > > I’m not sure what that makes me. It makes you me. So there are at least 2 of us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-stupid-shit-do-you-have-to-believe-to-be-a-conservative-today/535660.md?page=7)