# What subjective opinion are you most unshakably certain of? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 18, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198 "2013-11-18T19:37:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![austerity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@austerity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/austerity)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/61 "2013-11-19T15:20:15Z")
> [@austerity](#): > > Manic (2013) is the greatest movie ever made. typo MANIAC (2013) is the greatest movie ever made. The remake of the 1980 horror film with Elijah Wood. A near perfect movie if there could ever be one. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/62 "2013-11-19T15:54:18Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > … Motorhead’s version of Louie Louie is the greatest rock song ever… This is the only truly uncontestable, factual statment ever, because Lemmy. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/63 "2013-11-19T16:23:50Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > The overwhelming majority of popular music is utter shit–the worst music humanity has created in history–and will not be valued at all (with only a very few exceptions) in 100 years. On this theme… Prog Rock of the 70’s and 80’s is pretentious, boring, self indulgent, junk. The bands Yes and Genesis should never have existed. Oh, same thing goes for speed metal with Cookie Monster vocals. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/64 "2013-11-19T16:48:57Z")
Earvin Johnson was better than Michael Jordan. Winter is better than summer. Robots are better than astronauts. Tobacco is a noxious weed. White turkey meat is better than dark. PCs are better than Macs. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/65 "2013-11-19T16:52:34Z")
Seinfeld was not a funny TV show. It was mundane, boring and just plain annoying at times. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/66 "2013-11-19T16:59:02Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > _Office Space_ is a steaming pile of shit. For one thing, it’s not a comedy, it’s a heist movie with an occasional ham-fisted “joke”. For another, its creator had about as much knowledge of what makes corporate life farcical as the _Idiocracy_ guy did about what makes morons moronic (…what’s that you say? Aaah, it all makes sense now), meaning what few jokes were there — on a subject that should provide ample fodder for [decades of parody](http://www.dilbert.com) let alone 90 minutes worth of gags — fall flat on their face due to imbecilic setups. > > I grant that the printer scene makes a valiant attempt to redeem the film, but around the tenth “LOL the Indian guy is Indian and also Michael Bolton is not a very popular artist” joke, even that falls woefully short. Mmmkay, thanks for that. We’ll file it in the same folder as “Tears for Fears is a much better band than The Beatles”. You’re 0-for-2, with a combined score of 0-672 ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/67 "2013-11-19T17:05:54Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > On this theme… > Prog Rock of the 70’s and 80’s is pretentious, boring, self indulgent, junk. > The bands Yes and Genesis should never have existed. > Oh, same thing goes for speed metal with Cookie Monster vocals. I love the phrase ‘cookie monster vocals.’ I listen to some symphonic metal on occasion. Usually the bands I like have a female lead but they often have this element as well. I’ve gotten used to it but I can’t say I really like it or think it adds anything to the experience. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/68 "2013-11-19T17:46:24Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Mmmkay, thanks for that. We’ll file it in the same folder as “Tears for Fears is a much better band than The Beatles”. > > You’re 0-for-2, with a combined score of 0-672 Maybe, but I’d be doing better if the self-appointed scorekeepers didn’t mischaracterize my points. I think the music of TFF is better than that of the Beatles. In any other measure of band greatness — historical and cultural significance, artistic influence, the revolutionizing of a genre — I of course give the crown to the Fab Four, because I am not an idiot. However, innovation often surpasses invention in purely objective quality of the product, and music is no exception…I actually think a decent number of bands since the Beatles have produced better music than them; TFF just happens to be one of my personal favorites. As for Office Space, “steaming pile of shit” may be a bit much, but the tone of the thread was tending toward the hyperbolic, so there you have it. My actual problem with the movie has less to do with the quality of the humor — hell, I’ll admit I chuckled at the “TPS reports” bit on first viewing — and more the fact that everyone seems to think of it as an effective skewering of corporate culture, despite the fact that the specific acts of stupidity of its characters bear no relation to the mockable facets of their real-life counterparts. Effective satire either exaggerates actual qualities of the target in a humorous fashion, or provides a background to lampshade those qualities for open ridicule. Office Space, on the other hand, starts with the meme of “corporate wonks lack common sense” and extends that to “…therefore, if a subordinate peon directly insults them to their faces while openly proclaiming his worthlessness as an employee, they might even promote him for it.” If you find that funny for sheer non-sequitur value, that’s good and well, but it in no way lampoons the actual sources of boneheaded corporate promotions, which include nepotism, resume buzzwords, and, of course, heavy amounts of _ass-kissing_…exactly the opposite of the satirical point the movie tries to make. Anyway, I’m happy to discuss further in a new thread (which I’ll gladly start if you like); I love debating this stuff, but I don’t want to hijack this. I just wanted to clarify my actual position here. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/69 "2013-11-19T17:52:18Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > The end of _The Sopranos_ was perfect and Tony got whacked. I like the cut of your jib. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/70 "2013-11-19T17:52:19Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > Maybe, but I’d be doing better if the self-appointed scorekeepers didn’t mischaracterize my points. LOL. Yeah, I really overstated your case, didn’t I. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/59ef9b/32.png) [@FlyingRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRat)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/71 "2013-11-19T17:54:46Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Forest Gump was a shit movie, Dance with Wolves was boring but Waterworld is the worst movie ever. I’ll see your _Waterworld_ and raise you _[Theodore Rex](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114658/)_, which I had inflicted on me recently. Dear God. _[Jersey Shore Shark Attack](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1876349/?ref_=nv_sr_5)_ was a cinematic masterpiece in comparison. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/72 "2013-11-19T17:59:40Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > LOL. Yeah, I really overstated your case, didn’t I. :rolleyes: My case about what, the Beatles? Yeah, you did. The two sentences after the one you quoted explain how. If you meant Office Space, I deliberately overstated my OWN case, which is why I clarified. Not sure what the rolleyes is about, but if you care to actually discuss it instead of posting smugly dismissive emoticons, the new thread offer still stands, or feel free to PM me. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/73 "2013-11-19T18:09:46Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#): > > Seinfeld was not a funny TV show. It was mundane, boring and just plain annoying at times. My biggest problem was that each scene seemed to be 30 seconds long, followed by some truly terrible slap bass and an exterior shot of a building. Whoever edited that show shouldn’t be allowed to work in TV ever again ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/74 "2013-11-19T18:11:32Z")
I don’t care to rehash it again, thanks. But I don’t think "Band A is a better band than Band B is is a gross mischaracterization of “Group of Musicians A makes better music than Group of Musicians B”. That’s why the rolleyes. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/75 "2013-11-19T18:16:37Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > Maybe, but I’d be doing better if the self-appointed scorekeepers didn’t mischaracterize my points. I think the music of TFF is better than that of the Beatles. In any other measure of band greatness — historical and cultural significance, artistic influence, the revolutionizing of a genre — I of course give the crown to the Fab Four, because I am not an idiot. However, innovation often surpasses invention in purely objective quality of the product, and music is no exception…I actually think a decent number of bands since the Beatles have produced better music than them; TFF just happens to be one of my personal favorites. While I disagree that TFF is better than the Beatles in almost any regard, I do see your overall point. Popular music, as with all art forms, evolves and builds upon what came before. The Beatles made numerous significant advances in songwriting and recording, and nearly every band afterward owes a debt. Not only to them, but also to The Kinks, The Who, The Byrds, The Beach Boys and others who revolutionized rock music in the 60s. I’ve introduced my kids to The Beatles, The Beach Boys, The Kinks and The Who, in particular, because I think it’s valuable to see how groundbreaking they were and how much influence they clearly have had on subsequent artists. I like Green Day, but there’s no way you get to Green Day without going through The Beatles, The Kinks and The Who. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/76 "2013-11-19T18:25:32Z")
Or, as I listen to Pandora right now, I’m really liking a Dwight Yoakam song. I really like Yoakam, more than Buck Owens. Buy you don’t get Dwight Yoakam without going through Buck Owens. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/77 "2013-11-19T18:29:07Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > While I disagree that TFF is better than the Beatles in almost any regard, I do see your overall point. Popular music, as with all art forms, evolves and builds upon what came before. The Beatles made numerous significant advances in songwriting and recording, and nearly every band afterward owes a debt. Not only to them, but also to The Kinks, The Who, The Byrds, The Beach Boys and others who revolutionized rock music in the 60s. > > I’ve introduced my kids to The Beatles, The Beach Boys, The Kinks and The Who, in particular, because I think it’s valuable to see how groundbreaking they were and how much influence they clearly have had on subsequent artists. I like Green Day, but there’s no way you get to Green Day without going through The Beatles, The Kinks and The Who. Thanks, I appreciate that. Even though you’re disagreeing, you perhaps better phrased my last point — the historical and cultural importance of the Beatles (and similarly significant groups) is what tends to get brought to the forefront when discussing which band is “better,” which is why I think it’s a meaningful distinction to isolate discussions of the music from discussions of the bands. At any rate, **LD** , I’m aware that I did used to come of as a bit of a jerk when I’d debate this topic in the past, so sorry that I seem to have pissed you off. Back to the topic of the thread: the idea that ketchup can’t be put on a hot dog is a byproduct of McCarthyism (Red Scare, dontchaknow), and should be dispensed with immediately. Give me a Nathan’s a bottle of Heinz, and I’m a happy guy. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/78 "2013-11-19T18:31:55Z")
I agree with you on the Nathan’s, at least. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/79 "2013-11-19T18:37:08Z")
1. Not only is Michael Jordan the greatest basketball player of all time, he’s the greatest by a considerable margin. Neither Magic, nor Bird, nor LeBron to this point in his career, are close. In fact, Jordan is at this point _under-rated_ in the popular narrative. 2. The ending of the Sopranos was perfect, and… Tony was neither whacked nor not whacked. He is, for all time, Schrodinger’s Mobster. 1. Caviar is spectuacularly disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198/80 "2013-11-19T19:11:05Z")
Lost was a great show with a great ending. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-subjective-opinion-are-you-most-unshakably-certain-of/674198.md?page=5)