# What tactics will Republicans use against Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 21, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604 "2008-02-21T19:33:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/61 "2008-02-23T08:37:23Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] He has no military experience. His courage has never been tested to the ultimate. [/QUOTE] Somehow, when GWB (who avoided going to war, and did not even fulfill his duties in the National Guard that helped him escape the real war) was running, all this didn’t matter. Now that McCain is running against Obama, military and combat experience are _very_ important in a president! It’s stupid, but it will work, because people, for the most part, are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/62 "2008-02-23T09:03:52Z")
[QUOTE=Maeglin] McCain was indeed a Commanding Officer, but as **Dio** said, he never led men in combat. While his leadership record in Jacksonville, Florida is fairly impressive, it was not Hanoi. Do you really not know this stuff? [/QUOTE] He commanded the largest attack squadron in the Navy. He had over 6,000 people under his command. I’d say that’s executive experience. He also proved his leadership mettle in Vietnam when he was offered a chance to be set free from a POW camp quite early in his capture because he was the son of an Admiral. McCain was badly injured, and had all kinds of excuses to leave. But he knew his leaving would be used as propaganda, so he refused to go unless everyone who had been there longer was also released. Of course, that didn’t happen, and McCain wound up spending 5 1/2 years as a POW, enduring torture and brutal conditions the whole time. Obama has never had his character tested in any way remotely similar to that. I’m not saying he has to have that kind of experience to be president, but if I were making up a big spreadsheet to compare the candidates, this is a big plus in McCain’s column. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/63 "2008-02-23T09:59:07Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] He commanded the largest attack squadron in the Navy. He had over 6,000 people under his command. I’d say that’s executive experience. [/QUOTE] Can I get a cite for that number? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/64 "2008-02-23T17:06:38Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] He commanded the largest attack squadron in the Navy. He had over 6,000 people under his command. I’d say that’s executive experience. He also proved his leadership mettle in Vietnam when he was offered a chance to be set free from a POW camp quite early in his capture because he was the son of an Admiral. McCain was badly injured, and had all kinds of excuses to leave. But he knew his leaving would be used as propaganda, so he refused to go unless everyone who had been there longer was also released. Of course, that didn’t happen, and McCain wound up spending 5 1/2 years as a POW, enduring torture and brutal conditions the whole time. Obama has never had his character tested in any way remotely similar to that. I’m not saying he has to have that kind of experience to be president, but if I were making up a big spreadsheet to compare the candidates, this is a big plus in McCain’s column. [/QUOTE] All of a sudden you think combat experience counts for something, huh? When did you change your mind? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/65 "2008-02-23T17:31:30Z")
Presidents who had no combat experience: John Adams Thomas Jefferson Abraham Lincoln Franklin Roosevelt Ronald Reagan Bill Clinton George W. Bush Some of our shittiest presidents _did_ have combat experience (Jackson, Grant, Buchanan). It’s a meaningless qualification that has never been an indicator of what kind of POTUS someone will be. As for tests of character, how about Barack Obama turning down six figure salaries to work at coroprate law firms in order to work for $10K a year as a community organizer on Chicago. That shows a rare kind of integrity and principle in my book. No matter how idealistic you might be in theory, it’s really hard to make that choice when the money’s right in front of you like that. As a matter of politics, yes, of course McCain is going to have to exploit his POW experience. It’s all he’s got. It’s not going to be enough to evercome his platform of keeping everything exactly the same as it was under Bush. “Fuck hope,” and “100 MORE YEARS IN IRAQ, BITCHES!” is not going to get it done for the dude. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/66 "2008-02-23T17:47:15Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] He commanded the largest attack squadron in the Navy. He had over 6,000 people under his command. [/QUOTE] What SQUADRON would have six thousand people in it? That’s more people than serve on an aircraft carrier. > [@](#): > > Obama has never had his character tested in any way remotely similar to that. I’m not saying he has to have that kind of experience to be president, but if I were making up a big spreadsheet to compare the candidates, this is a big plus in McCain’s column. It’s a plus only if you’ve already decided which party you support. McCain is to be commended for his bravery as a POW, but it doesn’t prove anything vis a vis his capability as a President. He didn’t seem to be terribly hung up on integrity when he chose to support Charles Keating as one of the Keating Five. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/67 "2008-02-23T17:50:48Z")
[QUOTE=ForumBot] To tell the truth, I’m not nearly as worried as the mud the official republican party will try but the e-mails full of lies that will get forwarded around. People hear McCain call Obama a socialist, and they think it’s just a politican trying to get votes. If they get an e-mail from their friend that Obama is a terrorist, well, why would my friend lie to me? [/QUOTE] Once again, we don’t have to wait for the Republicans to start spreading that crap. Good ol’ [Hillary is doing it for them](http://blog.hillaryclinton.com/blog/main/2008/02/22/143137). > [@](#): > > HUBdate: Final Moment > > by Howard Wolfson, Communications Director > > 2/22/2008 9:31:37 AM > > . . . > > In Case You Missed It: “Obama once visited '60s ‘terrorists’.” [Read more](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8630.html). And you know what that means, right? Visit a terrorist, you _are_ a terrorist. Or at least you condone terrorism. Or don’t condemn it. Or something. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/68 "2008-02-23T17:56:57Z")
You \*do \* know that’s a [Politico.com](http://Politico.com) cite, right? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/69 "2008-02-23T17:59:28Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] You \*do \* know that’s a [Politico.com](http://Politico.com) cite, right? :dubious: [/QUOTE] YOu _do_ know that it’s HILLARY’S PEOPLE who are using it as a source, directing people to it in _THEIR_ newsletters and thereby making the implication, _right_? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/70 "2008-02-23T18:00:51Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] All of a sudden you think combat experience counts for something, huh? When did you change your mind? [/QUOTE] I thought we were talking about executive experience. The squadron I mentioned wasn’t in combat - he commanded it after he returned from Vietnam. > [@DMC](#): > > Can I get a cite for that number? Looks like I made an error. I misread the statistiics. Here’s the wikipedia entry for Attack Squadron 174, which was McCain’s command when he came back from Vietnam: [Attack Squadron 174](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_Squadron_174_%28United_States_Navy%29) From the cite: > [@](#): > > The squadron received its first A-7E in December 1969, and transitioned the Atlantic Fleet’s first squadron VA-81 on 1 June 1970. In addition to conducting squadron transition training, VA-174 continued to train all the replacement pilots and enlisted maintenance personnel who served in the Atlantic Fleet Light Attack Squadrons. As of 1 August 1971, VA-174 had trained 535 pilots, 48 maintenance officers and 4815 enlisted maintenance personnel. VA-174 was the largest aviation squadron in the U.S. Navy. The squadron was disestablished on 30 June 1988.[2] So while it was the largest squadron, the number I cited was the number of people that went through it for training. Mea Culpa. I should have thought more about that number - it’s clearly way too large for a single squadron. It was probably more like a tenth that size. I blame the early morning posting, and being tired and shagged out after a long squawk. Squadrons are typically 12 to 24 aircraft. This one was the ‘largest in the Navy’, so maybe it was slightly bigger. I’d guess you’ve got maybe 100-500 people in a squadron like that. But I couldn’t find an exact number, so that’s just a guess. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/71 "2008-02-23T18:19:01Z")
So basically, McCain has no executive experience and didn’t “command” much of anything. He flew missions and commanded small units, but he wasn’t fucking Patton or anything. His “command” experience is about the same as John Kerry’s was. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/72 "2008-02-23T18:24:54Z")
Kerry did have other people in the boat with him, at least. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/73 "2008-02-23T18:30:10Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] YOu _do_ know that it’s HILLARY’S PEOPLE who are using it as a source, directing people to it in _THEIR_ newsletters and thereby making the implication, _right_? :dubious: [/QUOTE] :shrug: Maybe you should take that up with **Richard Parker**. Is Politico a reliable source only when they favor your position? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/74 "2008-02-23T18:38:03Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] he wasn’t fucking Patton or anything. [/QUOTE] Now THAT would be a juicy sex scandal! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/75 "2008-02-23T19:05:54Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] :shrug: Maybe you should take that up with **Richard Parker**. Is Politico a reliable source only when they favor your position? [/QUOTE] What the fuck are you _talking_ about? They _don’t_ favor “my position”, whatever that is. **They are being used as a source BY HILLARY CLINTON’S CAMPAIGN!** Click the link I provided right ABOVE the quote box. HERE, I’ll give it to you again, so it’s nice and easy. . . [http://blog.hillaryclinton.com/blog/main/2008/02/22/143137](http://blog.hillaryclinton.com/blog/main/2008/02/22/143137) It’s HILLARY’S CAMPAIGN that is directing people to that Politico article, AS IF IT HAS SOME GRAVITAS. Now, would you care to wage _half_ as much criticism towards _your_ candidate for using such a (according to you) disreputable site in an effort to associate Barack Obama with terrorists? I’d wait for an answer, but I fear I’ll get exactly the same cold, dead silence I got in the last thread where I proved you failed to make your point, asked for a concession and got summarily ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/76 "2008-02-23T19:30:41Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] So basically, McCain has no executive experience and didn’t “command” much of anything. He flew missions and commanded small units, but he wasn’t fucking Patton or anything. His “command” experience is about the same as John Kerry’s was. [/QUOTE] No. John Kerry commanded a small boat with a handful of guys. McCain commanded an entire squadron - he would have been Kerry’s CO. He also retired with the rank of Captain, compared to Kerry being a Lieutenant. But I agree in a sense - commanding a squadron is not the type of ‘executive experience’ that counts for much in terms of the White House. Especially military command, which has quite a different structure and rules from civilian government or the private sector. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/77 "2008-02-23T19:33:36Z")
McCain isn’t running for President, he’s running for Commander in Chief. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/78 "2008-02-23T19:57:03Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] McCain isn’t running for President, he’s running for Commander in Chief. [/QUOTE] What the heck does that mean? Isn’t the president the Commander in Chief? If McCain doesn’t wanna be president, fine. If he just wants to be CiC and play with troops, buy him a RISK board or a copy of Civilization 4. ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/79 "2008-02-23T20:45:13Z")
[QUOTE=Jolly Roger] What the heck does that mean? Isn’t the president the Commander in Chief? If McCain doesn’t wanna be president, fine. If he just wants to be CiC and play with troops, buy him a RISK board or a copy of Civilization 4. [/QUOTE] You may not understand, his supporters do. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604/80 "2008-02-23T21:03:31Z")
[QUOTE=kevja] You may not understand, his supporters do. [/QUOTE] Maybe they’d care to explain, then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-tactics-will-republicans-use-against-obama/438604.md?page=5)