# What technologies deserve to die? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583 "2003-09-24T17:28:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/21 "2003-09-25T03:15:27Z")
Mmmmm. Plastic voluntary boobies. Mmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/22 "2003-09-25T03:22:16Z")
Commercial ocean fishing and whaling. We don’t depend on hunting wild land animals for the main source of our meat. We probably farm-raise 99.99% of all of the meat we eat. Yet we still go through the ocean and trawl out large schools of fish more and more efficiently, to the point that we have hugely diminished schools of large ocean fish. It is a long term goal, but commercial fishing at present seems so inefficient and costly to the environment. I know right now there isn’t anything better, but it seems like there should be – some type of large scale fish farming in ways which don’t affect ocean diversity outside of the farms. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/23 "2003-09-25T03:34:05Z")
Aside from the fact that the list looks more like something ELF would print out I would 2nd the nomination of auto dialers. All in favor… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/24 "2003-09-25T04:23:36Z")
Cel-based animation is on the way out, which is kind of a pity since CG animation isn’t always an improvement, visually or creatively. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/25 "2003-09-25T05:47:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*They still make Easy-Bake Ovens? \*\* Yep. Michaela got one for Christmas last year. I have to keep reminding myself not to cannibalize the bulb when we run out (I usually use 60 or 75W around the house, and this uses a 100W). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/26 "2003-09-25T05:51:05Z")
Oh, and we need to let voice mail die, along with any other technology that makes it easier to maintain the illusion that it is possible for someone to give sufficient (read: 75% or greater) attention to more than one task/person at a time. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/27 "2003-09-25T06:01:23Z")
Why do people hate fax machines so much? They are extremely easy to set up and operate. They can transmit any diagram without compatibility problems, and text in any language without font problems. (Do you know how hard it is to get a Japanese PC user to generate PDF files that display properly on English-language systems?) Compared to e-mail they have very few spam and security holes. If you mean thermal-sensitive paper fax machines, then I would agree. But they _are_ dead. Even my boss got rid of his a few months ago, when it became too difficult to find the right paper. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/28 "2003-09-25T06:04:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by edwino \* > \*\*It is a long term goal, but commercial fishing at present seems so inefficient and costly to the environment. I know right now there isn’t anything better, but it seems like there should be – some type of large scale fish farming in ways which don’t affect ocean diversity outside of the farms. \*\* You really need to think about the negative effects of farmed fish before you put your eggs in that basket. Take farmed salmon for instance; the only reason it is that familiar shade of pink is because of all the [artificial dye](http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/front_page/105118556956740.xml) they put in the feed. Without it, farmed salmon would be as grey as codfish. Farmed salmon are also treated with [pesticides, fungicides and antibiotics](http://www.nj.com/living/ledger/index.ssf?/base/living-0/106438097729090.xml) to control parasites and disease that thrive in growing pens. And [recent studies](http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/946109.asp) show that farmed salmon have as much as 16 times the cancer-causing PCB’s in their flesh as wild salmon. Commercial salmon fishing in Alaskan waters is managed as a sustainable resource, with strict limits on the number of fishing days and monitoring of escapments of spawning stock up the rivers to ensure a yearly return. While it is true that such management is not practiced around the world, it is simplistic to say that commercial fishing should be done away with in general, just because of specific abuses. ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/29 "2003-09-25T06:27:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > **Bruce Sterling offers up a list of 10 technologies that he thinks the world needs to get rid of.** -There’s no such thing as technology we “need to get rid of.” Damn near everything was invented because there was a need for that invention. If the invention isn’t needed, it doesn’t “take off”, it doesn’t move into general usage. If it IS needed, it’s adopted and used- and if it’s used, there was a need for it, wasn’t there? There is technology that has been _supplanted_ or replaced, yes: the mimeograph, switchboard operators, the steam engine. But nobody up and arbitrarily decided “that should be banned”, we simply moved on when better technology presented itself. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/30 "2003-09-25T06:36:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lemur866 \* > **Oh, let me add some more bad technologies. Dial-up modems. Floppy disks.** I have to disagree here. These are not examples of bad technology. They are, at worst, examples of obsolete technology. (Although I don’t believe that either floppies or dial-up modems are obsolete.) These are, IMHO, examples of very _good_ technology. Floppies allowed easy swapping of files from computer to computer. If there’s a hardware equivalent of a “killer app”, floppies have to be an example of it. For years, they were a cheap, dependable, and ubiquitous way of transfering data. Dial-up modems use an already existing and very extensive infrastructure (phone lines) to transmit data. And it’s very fast. Not as fast as other methods, but unless I’m downloading video or sound, it’s fast enough for most purposes. I can get loads of text and small images to load almost instantly. Dial-up modems let you access the Internet whereever there are phone lines. Like floppies, it’s a cheap, dependable, and ubiquitous technology. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/31 "2003-09-25T06:39:52Z")
**Fear Itself** I am well aware of the risks of fish farming. I take an interest in Israeli politics, and the massive amounts of pesticides being dumped into the Red Sea from commercial fish farms near Eilat are probably responsible for much of the coral die-off in the area. I think that fishing in its current form is a little old-fashioned, especially for the giant food needs of the current world. It seems that large scale fish farming is the way to go. Instead of decimating schools of tuna, perhaps there is some better way. Not right now, but in the future. I tend to fall into the analogy of commercial fishing is to the large fish count as 19th century overhunting was to the American bison. Perhaps I am wrong. I dunno, I could be mixed up on the whole thing. Maybe the way to go is to instead focus on making commercial fishing in its current form sustainable. Perhaps our meat farming now is really a bad paradigm. Instead of commercial chicken and cattle farming, perhaps we could go to a free-range type system similar to what would be used in a commercial, sustainable, ocean fishing type system. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/32 "2003-09-25T08:04:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by JRDelirious_ > **Oh, and if you do away with dial-up modems, you automatically deprive me of internet access. I do NOT have an alternative at home: neither CATV of Greater SJ nor Verizon Telephone of PR feel it’s worth it offering me reliable broadband.** If you have a cell phone, you can get online at 14.4 kbps. If you live near a somewhat major city (or even Spokane), you can probably get online at close to 100 kbps. There’s even satellite if you have the money and don’t need low latency. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/33 "2003-09-25T12:10:40Z")
I can’t believe nobody has said it yet: **MicroSoft Windows!** and Office, and IExplorer, and IIS/ASP, and… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/34 "2003-09-25T12:19:31Z")
Internet bulletin boards. They are all against me. They all must die. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/35 "2003-09-25T14:09:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMensch \* > \*\*Mmmmm. > > Plastic voluntary boobies. > > Mmmmm. \*\* Those have been around for awhile. Ever see a dressmaker’s dummy, with the little dial on the side that lets you make them whatever size you like? Hilarious. Faxes are already being supplanted by e-mailed TIF’s and the like, it seems to me. Another item for the list: the “Reply to All” button in Outlook. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/36 "2003-09-25T14:28:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*If you have a cell phone, you can get online at 14.4 kbps. If you live near a somewhat major city (or even Spokane), you can probably get online at close to 100 kbps. There’s even satellite if you have the money and don’t need low latency. \*\* I shall laugh, if only to keep from crying, at what it would _cost_ me to be online as much as I am via my cell phone, and that at a fraction of the speed of land-line dial-up. Maybe if/when I get a wireless-enabled PDA/Pocket PC I can tandem it with a Bluetooth phone for checking my e-mail while on the road, but really… Let’s just say not all markets offer the same choices. As **BlackKnight** and **Doc Nickel** have stated, just because bigger-faster-better has come around and become the choice of the marketplace doesn’t mean that the previous technology “deserved” to die. Did the bicycle, passenger train, or horse-breeder “deserve to die” after the adoption of the automobile? No. They “died” in those applications for which they became obsolete, but lived on in a different market “niche” where they _were_ “good enough”: recreational uses (horse, bike) and commuter transportation (bike, train) (and in many places they remain primary conveyances!). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/37 "2003-09-25T15:22:20Z")
Hey, while I’m here anyway… Y’know, it seems to me that a “technologies I dislike and wish they went away” would be really an IMHO thread rather than a GD thread. However, let’s look at it in ways that may lead to a debate: (A) Do we “need to get rid” of some technologies or social structures altogether or just on the specific _application_ we are familiar with – e.g. Prisons: obsolete in and of themselves, or just because they are used for warehousing instead of rehabilitation? ICEs: Bad for the Earth at all times, or specially when burning oil-based fuels? (I tend to say there little evil technology, many evil apps. Division of labor=fine; slavery=bad. E-mail=fine; SPAM=bad) (B) Are some technologies to be deliberately abandoned “just because” there is something “better” around, or out of a value judgement about the necessity for them (e.g. cosmetic implants: so it’s vanity, what do I care? ); or should classing a technology or social structure as due for abolition depend on its continuance _imposing a risk or cost incommesurate with its benefit?_ (e.g. “Lie detectors”: virtually benefit-less, creates a risky reliance on dubious data.) (B)(1) And what specifically goes into the cost-benefit balance? (e.g. spaceflight) Straight monetary cost? The “You can’t put a price on a single life” principle? Philosophical/moral considerations about higher goals and aspirations? (Me: no, “just because” there is something better or worthier doesn’t doom a technology; and the decision depends on a combination of factors) © Are product features “technologies”? The RCEs and the unskippable segments on DVDs are a pain in the tuchus, but those are not intrinsic to the technology – a DVD maker can just not include either. (Me: see A. Which does not mean that MicroSoft should not be vigorously castigated for giving us a product that need to be patched almost daily) (D) The market rules. Again, so what if DVDs aren’t The Perfect Recording Medium. Nothing is. But if they were so wretched, nobody would buy. And when something better shows up, we’ll buy THAT. (Me: You want a record that’ll last 5 thousand years? Carve it on basalt and bury it in the desert. And if the ISPs simply stop supporting dial-up altogether as economically not viable, OR start offering me better connections, then I’ll gladly ditch mine.) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/38 "2003-09-25T18:57:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tschild \* > I believe the world would be a better place without any music-recording technology. When hearing music is not important enought to people to go to the trouble of performing it themselves, or to the expense of paying others to perform it, music at best is not as appreciated as it should be and at worst is an almost unescapable nuisance. \*\* I believe the world would be a better place without colors. When seeing a color is not important enought to people to go to the trouble of coloring it themselves, or to the expense of paying others to color it, colors are at best not as appreciated as they should be and at worst are an almost inescapable nuisance. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/39 "2003-09-25T23:29:49Z")
Oh c’mon now…You guys are slipping. 1920’s-style death rays. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583/40 "2003-09-26T10:17:25Z")
“_insert welcome message_” “for english press 1, for chinese press 2, for …” “if you’re looking for a meaningful post press 1, if you’re looking …” _insert more nested examples at least 3 levels deep_ … … … “if you want to speak to an operator press 0” _heave a sigh of relieve_ _wait_ _and wait…_ “your call is important to us. all our operators are busy at …” _and wait…_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-technologies-deserve-to-die/203583.md?page=3)