# What temperature is "ice cold" ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 2, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779 "2009-04-02T23:07:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sich\_hinaufwinden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@sich\_hinaufwinden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sich_hinaufwinden)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/21 "2009-04-03T15:08:04Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > The real question is, _which_ ice-cold? Can’t water be solid under high pressure at high temperatures? Furthermore, even at standard pressure, water is solid at a wide range of temps - from absolute zero up to its melting point. But for some reason everyone seems to be equating the temp of ice with its melting point. Yes I understand the soda will heat the ice from its original temp up to 32F and stay at that equilibrium temp until all the ice has melted. But my point is that the ice itself most likely started out below 32F. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/22 "2009-04-03T15:59:16Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > Soda isn’t pure water, so it’s freezing point is lowered, like salt water. > > [Freezing-point depression - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freezing-point_depression) > [@GreasyJack](#): > > I think non-diet sodas freeze a few degrees below 32F, so you could have a Coke which was cold as ice, but still a liquid. It would probably be a little distressing to drink, though. > > I had a half keg of beer out in my unheated garage all winter. It seemed to freeze at around 20 degrees. I was going to use it to refute a local convenience store’s claim of having the “coldest beer in town!”. This what I get for sleeping through my class on thermodynamics. But in my defence I always drink the non-sugar stuff. And BTW water freezes at 0 degrees fools, and what the hell is 32F. That’s crazy talk. You be crazy… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/23 "2009-04-03T16:19:38Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > They couldn’t sell pop that was \*\*really \*\*ice cold cus… It would be frozen! (or half frozen whatever…) Who wants to lick a frozen coke? OOOO OOOO me. I have a 2 liter in the freezer as we speak. I love it when it starts to slush up. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/24 "2009-04-03T21:14:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Furthermore, even at standard pressure, water is solid at a wide range of temps - from absolute zero up to its melting point. But for some reason everyone seems to be equating the temp of ice with its melting point. I would happily accept the claim that a can of pop at 2.7 Kelvins is ice-cold. The point is, though, that there’s no standard by which a can of pop above 273.15 Kelvins can be said to be ice-cold. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/25 "2009-04-03T21:27:13Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > Ice cold soda refers to the temperature you’d experience if you poured the soda from a can into a glass full of ice. That would give you soda about half way between the room temperature of soda and ice. Nah. How cold are the ice cubes? Since there’s no standard, that’s a nonsense definition. If you cooled ice to, say, -300 F, just for the sake of the discussion, and then put them into a container and poured coke over them, there’s a chance the liquid would freeze on contact. Ice cold? Yep. And if the cubes had been +30 F, and you did the same, the coke would still be ice cold, by your definition, yes? Not gonna work. As has been pointed out, all the Dopers in the world can get all pedantic and technical about it - it’s an advertising phrase with no definitive meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/26 "2009-04-03T21:36:12Z")
> [@CC](#): > > Nah. How cold are the ice cubes? Since there’s no standard, that’s a nonsense definition. If you cooled ice to, say, -300 F, just for the sake of the discussion, and then put them into a container and poured coke over them, there’s a chance the liquid would freeze on contact. Ice cold? Yep. And if the cubes had been +30 F, and you did the same, the coke would still be ice cold, by your definition, yes? Not gonna work. As has been pointed out, all the Dopers in the world can get all pedantic and technical about it - it’s an advertising phrase with no definitive meaning. You can’t get ice cubes to -300F, and then pour soda over them. Anywhere getting things that cold won’t allow food or drink in their laboratory. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/27 "2009-04-03T21:40:18Z")
:smack: How silly of me for not realizing whatever the hell you meant by that. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/28 "2009-04-03T21:43:56Z")
I meant that, in order to achieve temperatures much lower than -300F, you’re going to have to do it in a controlled environment, which will probably be in a facility big enough to have a safety program that has all sorts of rules. One of the rules will be no food or drink in the lab. Blame it on all the safety training I’ve been going to for the past month. Although, I retract my edit, I’m not sure you can get ice down to -300F with liquid nitrogen. I forgot about the Leidenfrost effect, which should have been fresh in my mind since I had cryogenic fluids training last week. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/29 "2009-04-03T21:44:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I would happily accept the claim that a can of pop at 2.7 Kelvins is ice-cold. The point is, though, that there’s no standard by which a can of pop above 273.15 Kelvins can be said to be ice-cold. Sure there is. It just needs to be at high pressure. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/30 "2009-04-03T22:31:29Z")
**Santo,** forget the so-called practical reasons that you couldn’t do my clearly hypothetical event in a lab because of the fact that no one would let you bring food into a lab. The point was that ice - and I don’t know why water ice couldn’t be made -300 degrees F. somehow - has no particular temperature, aside from being colder than 32F. That means that a mixture of ice and coke can have any number of possible temperatures, depending on the temperature of the coke and the temperature of the ice. And the concept of “ice cold” cannot rest on the temperature of an ice/coke mixture because there is no single temperature of that nature. It was a model, an example, to help explain my idea. I wasn’t actually suggesting that we try it. Hell, what if I forgot the address of the lab in the first place. Then,\* for sure\*, we couldn’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/31 "2009-04-03T22:38:59Z")
Let’s check a renowned reference here, an authority on words and their meaning, the [Merriam-Webster dictionary](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ice-cold). According to them, the meaning of the term “Ice-cold” is… “extremely cold.” Welp, there ya have it. ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/32 "2009-04-04T15:44:39Z")
> [@CC](#): > > **Santo,** The point was that ice - and I don’t know why water ice couldn’t be made -300 degrees F. somehow - has no particular temperature, aside from being colder than 32F. That means that a mixture of ice and coke can have any number of possible temperatures, depending on the temperature of the coke and the temperature of the ice. And the concept of “ice cold” cannot rest on the temperature of an ice/coke mixture because there is no single temperature of that nature. I’m glad you clarified this. There is no single temperature of that nature, but there is a range of temperature of that nature. If we consider that the starting temperature of the Coke is not extreme (such as over 90 degrees) and that the quantity of the ice in the container is significant to reach a point of temperature equilibrium with the soda before all of the ice melts, we can define a range of temperatures for the soda. It can be x to y. Let’s say we’re talking Fahrenheit here, x could be negative infinity, and y could be 33. I don’t know what the equilibrium temperature for a liquid mixed with ice is, but water and ice doesn’t tend to freeze unless the surrounding air temp is around the freezing temperature. So … I’m guessing at 33, correct the number but I bet it’s close. So the range of temperatures could be said to be below 33. It’s not “any” number, we can say it’s a huge, huge, huge range … it’s even slightly more than 50% of the possible range of temperatures expressable on some scales, but it’s not all of the numbers. You can press a button of Ice Cold Coke and get it at -300 degrees. You can get it at -1 degrees. You can get it at +10 or +31 or even +33. But you can’t get Ice Cold Coke at +100 or +1,000 degrees - that would meet no one’s determination of an Ice Cold Drink. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/33 "2009-04-04T16:13:34Z")
> [@CC](#): > > **Santo,** forget the so-called practical reasons that you couldn’t do my clearly hypothetical event in a lab because of the fact that no one would let you bring food into a lab… Yeah, let’s do that. I was just being silly. > [@](#): > > The point was that ice - and I don’t know why water ice couldn’t be made -300 degrees F. somehow - has no particular temperature, aside from being colder than 32F. This is true. > [@](#): > > That means that a mixture of ice and coke can have any number of possible temperatures, depending on the temperature of the coke and the temperature of the ice. This is not true. Using water to simplify the numbers, and assuming ambient pressure, if the mixture is colder than 32, the water will freeze. If it’s warmer than 32, the ice will melt. When the ambient temperature is higher than 32, the system will not reach equilibrium until all the ice melts. Until then, the water will remain at 32. > [@](#): > > And the concept of “ice cold” cannot rest on the temperature of an ice/coke mixture because there is no single temperature of that nature. Sure there is, as explained above. With any given mixture, at ambient pressure, there’s only one temperature a given two phase mixture can be at. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/34 "2009-04-04T16:17:00Z")
> [@SeanArenas](#): > > I’m glad you clarified this. There is no single temperature of that nature, but there is a range of temperature of that nature. > > If we consider that the starting temperature of the Coke is not extreme (such as over 90 degrees) and that the quantity of the ice in the container is significant to reach a point of temperature equilibrium with the soda before all of the ice melts, we can define a range of temperatures for the soda. It can be x to y. Let’s say we’re talking Fahrenheit here, x could be negative infinity, and y could be 33. I don’t know what the equilibrium temperature for a liquid mixed with ice is, but water and ice doesn’t tend to freeze unless the surrounding air temp is around the freezing temperature. So … I’m guessing at 33, correct the number but I bet it’s close. > > So the range of temperatures could be said to be below 33. It’s not “any” number, we can say it’s a huge, huge, huge range … it’s even slightly more than 50% of the possible range of temperatures expressable on some scales, but it’s not all of the numbers. > > You can press a button of Ice Cold Coke and get it at -300 degrees. You can get it at -1 degrees. You can get it at +10 or +31 or even +33. But you can’t get Ice Cold Coke at +100 or +1,000 degrees - that would meet no one’s determination of an Ice Cold Drink. This is just wrong. For starters, Fahrenheit doesn’t go to negative infinity, it stops at -460. The temperature of the surrounding air is irrelevant, if a liquid is colder than it’s melting point, it will freeze. Without changing the pressure, you can’t get water below 32F. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/35 "2009-04-04T16:42:03Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Without changing the pressure, you can’t get water below 32F. And if you do change the pressure, you can get ice at 1000K. Here’s an article [describing the phase diagram of water](http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/phase.html). Ice X appears to be stable at temperatures of 1000K (1340F, 726.6C) at a pressure approaching 100 gigapascals (14.5 million PSI). So you can have your “ice-cold” coke at a nice cherry-red temperature, as long as it’s in a suitably-pressurized can. Just be careful opening it. ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/36 "2009-04-04T16:52:47Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > This is just wrong. For starters, Fahrenheit doesn’t go to negative infinity, it stops at -460. The temperature of the surrounding air is irrelevant, if a liquid is colder than it’s melting point, it will freeze. Without changing the pressure, you can’t get water below 32F. OK then Ice Cold Coke could mean -460 to +33. That’s still a huge range of numbers. And +59F doesn’t seem to be part of them. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/37 "2009-04-04T21:47:34Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > 59K, on the other hand, would be ice-of-hell cold. Only on the day that hell freezes over. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/38 "2009-04-04T22:18:28Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Without changing the pressure, you can’t get water below 32F. Ever heard of [supercooling](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercooling)? Under the right circumstances, water (at standard pressure) can remain liquid down to -42 °C. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/39 "2009-04-04T22:38:35Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This is called puffery, legally. It’s like claiming you sell “the world’s greatest hamburger.” You aren’t required to prove it. I thought advertisers weren’t allowed to call their product ‘the greatest in the world’ without some form of justification? There’s a marketing campaign by Carlsberg beer where the slogan is, ‘Probably the best beer in the world’. I was told they chose that slogan for the exact reason that they’re not allowed to state ‘the best beer in the world’ as a factual claim. ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779/40 "2009-04-05T01:25:39Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > I thought advertisers weren’t allowed to call their product ‘the greatest in the world’ without some form of justification? There’s a marketing campaign by Carlsberg beer where the slogan is, ‘Probably the best beer in the world’. I was told they chose that slogan for the exact reason that they’re not allowed to state ‘the best beer in the world’ as a factual claim. Mostly they say, “Best in its class!” Where the class is very closely defined as 3 car models. Each of the other two is probably also in another class where they can claim to be the best… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-temperature-is-ice-cold/491779.md?page=3)