# What textual evidence is there for an unreliable narrator in "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 28, 2019, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482 "2019-12-28T00:26:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/1 "2019-12-28T00:26:28Z")
I have been arguing this with some people on Twitter and Facebook, and the arguments I’ve heard so far seem to be that “Santa isn’t real” or that Santa wouldn’t do something so unwholesome/transgressive. (1) So all the other songs about Santa Claus are really just about regular, non-magic beings who are dressed up in a red and white suit? (2) Kissing someone’s mom strikes me as less transgressive than [killing someone’s grandma.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgIwLeASnkw&feature=emb_logo) Seriously, there’s not even the slightest hint in the lyrics that this Santa is really the kid’s dad. Why would the dad be dressed up that way when the kids are asleep? Why isn’t there some line about how Santa surprisingly resembled Dad, or that when the kid went to the parents’ bedroom to go alert Dad to the hanky panky, he was nowhere to be found? I don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/2 "2019-12-28T02:25:08Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Seriously, there’s not even the slightest hint in the lyrics that this Santa is really the kid’s dad. Why would the dad be dressed up that way when the kids are asleep? Why isn’t there some line about how Santa surprisingly resembled Dad, or that when the kid went to the parents’ bedroom to go alert Dad to the hanky panky, he was nowhere to be found? I don’t buy it. It’s weird. I’ve been listening to this song every Christmas for the past 43 years but this is the first where I’ve heard multiple people discuss this song. What gives? Is it the SNL version of the song that came out this year? I don’t think the lyrics need any hints we can just go by the context of the song. The narrator is a young child who stumbled down the stairs and saw his mother kissing Santa. The kid is too young to know Santa isn’t real but the audience knows and is able to put two and two together. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/3 "2019-12-28T02:27:43Z")
Clearly, mommy is a little kinky and likes it when daddy plays dress up; that costume ain’t for the kid. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/4 "2019-12-28T02:32:13Z")
The textual evidence is this bit: ©1952 Mom wouldn’t cheat on dad. That would go against morality. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/5 "2019-12-28T02:37:26Z")
It’s never even occurred to me to interpret it any other way than it’s dad dressed up as Santa Claus, but I’m kind of intrigued now. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/6 "2019-12-28T02:40:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Seriously, there’s not even the slightest hint in the lyrics that this Santa is really the kid’s dad. He’s kissing Mommy. Given that this is a cutesy novelty song from 1952, that’s all the evidence you need that it’s Daddy. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/7 "2019-12-28T03:04:28Z")
I’ll also note that the little kid makes it explicitly clear that Daddy is nowhere to be found, which is a pretty unnecessary bit of lyric if the idea of the song is to conjure the Christmas spirit, unless it serves as the main clue as to what is going on. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/8 "2019-12-28T03:36:52Z")
If it is the real Santa, what’s he doing kissing mommy? That dude’s on a tight schedule; if he stopped for a snog with every housewife along the way he wouldn’t be done passing out presents until April. On the other hand, I just checked the text and there’s no indication that this song takes place on Christmas Eve. So, I guess it depends; Christmas Eve, it’s daddy, if it’s sometime in mid-June then all bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/9 "2019-12-28T03:46:09Z")
Kid’s fucking lucky he didn’t come downstairs 5 minutes later. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/10 "2019-12-28T03:47:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Kid’s fucking lucky he didn’t come downstairs 5 minutes later. Scarred for life. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/11 "2019-12-28T04:15:39Z")
[Saks Fifth Avenue commissioned the song by a British writer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Saw_Mommy_Kissing_Santa_Claus) so who knows what pervo sales stuff was going on backstage? Other versions substitute Daddy for Mommy, and more. I visualize smutty orgiastic scenes with elves or massed Santas. But no reindeer - too bestial. They can only observe. “I saw Mommy dominating my submissive Daddy dressed as Santa Claus” is too long. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/12 "2019-12-28T20:52:40Z")
Did anyone else sing She didn’t see me creep Down the stairs to take a leak? We thought that was funnier than Mommy kissing Santa Claus ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/13 "2019-12-28T22:18:03Z")
You need to check out the Twister Sister version. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/14 "2019-12-28T23:26:27Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > If it is the real Santa, what’s he doing kissing mommy? That dude’s on a tight schedule; if he stopped for a snog with every housewife along the way he wouldn’t be done passing out presents until April. What, you never heard [Santa Claus Is Foolin’ Around](https://youtu.be/ixY195VODVU)? ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/15 "2019-12-28T23:33:21Z")
Obviously, Santa/Daddy knew the younguns were sneaking a peek and even planned on it. We used to stay up and look around the corner but always fell asleep too early. Dennis ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2019, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/16 "2019-12-29T08:13:15Z")
Obviously, Mommy fancied finding a sable under the tree. Sorry, wrong song. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2019, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/17 "2019-12-29T11:28:00Z")
The final lines are the textual evidence. What a laugh it would have been If Daddy had only seen Mommy kissing Santa Claus last night! This sentence, especially in the tone delivered, is constructed in an ironic way, as if the audience knows something the child speaker doesn’t. That last part is also the answer to your question on why only this particular song is assumed to have an unreliable narrator. The narrator is explicitly a precocious child, sneaking around at night. who could easily see something they don’t actually understand. Most other songs about Santa come from either an adult or just some seemingly omniscient narrator, not a child participant. There is also what others have mentioned–it doesn’t fit the mythos of Santa. Santa is happily married and very busy. He only arrives when all are asleep, including the adults. He doesn’t go around kissing parents. If he wasn’t perfectly good with not a single bit of naughtiness, he couldn’t be the judge of who who’s naught or nice. And it would become very creepy that he’s constantly watching kids to see if they misbehave. The only real question in the song whether or not “Santa” is daddy or some other person in a Santa costume. The time period (as mentioned by others) is useful information. You didn’t cheekily joke about infidelity in the mainstream back in 1952, nor did you assume that mom was divorced. Plus there was already the known tradition of a father dressing like Santa for the kiddos (at least, as depicted in film), so you could buy that he just hadn’t taken his costume off before he was “underneath the mistletoe” and got a kiss. Even assuming it was mom and dad getting some role playing kink on is a more modern interpretation that I believe was intended back then. Or, at least, if such was intended, it was deliberately delivered in a way to allow plausible deniability. You specifically mention “Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer.” That song only has Santa doing Santa things–flying with his reindeer–and the person singing it is an adult who knows that most adults don’t believe in Santa. (Though, of course, it could have just been a normal reindeer, since nothing in the song explicitly says the reindeer was flying–it could have rared up to get the hoof prints on her forehead and the “Claus marks” could be anything. A skeptic would not accept the evidence given.) I also note that the song discussing a dead grandma (despite the TV special editing that part out) suggests a sort of morbid humor that “Mommy Kissing Santa” lacks. Thus it being transgressive with a Santa who might do a hit-and-run is more fitting. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2019, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/18 "2019-12-29T12:26:11Z")
Just like “Baby, It’s Cold Outside,” this song should be taken at face value. Analysis ruins its charm. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2019, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/19 "2019-12-29T13:05:52Z")
The face value is that the fat man from the North Pole is taking a break from his duties to get friendly with the mother of one of his clients. > [@](#): > > Quoth **Robot Arm** : > > If it is the real Santa, what’s he doing kissing mommy? That dude’s on a tight schedule; if he stopped for a snog with every housewife along the way he wouldn’t be done passing out presents until April. But likewise, it’s well-established that he also doesn’t have time to meet his tight schedule _at all_, even without mistletoe breaks. But… > [@](#): > > Quoth **BigT** : > > There is also what others have mentioned–it doesn’t fit the mythos of Santa. Santa is happily married and very busy. The answer to this becomes obvious once you realize the answer to the previous problem. Consider: 1: Santa is, of course, happily married. 2: The Clauses are, of course, immortal. 3: They live in the most boring place on the planet. 4: They’re Catholic. The inescapable conclusion is that the population of Clauses has been growing faster than that of the world as a whole, and that’s obviously what makes the whole operation possible in the first place: It’s not just Santa delivering presents; it’s a family operation. Which then addresses **BigT** ’s objection: Yes, the patriarch of the family is happily married, as are most of the Clauses. But there are always a a few of the youngest generation who haven’t married yet. And obviously they must seek partners from among the world of mortals. Mommy is soon to become a Claus, and the narrator to become a step-Claus. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482/20 "2019-12-29T16:51:03Z")
St Nick is a Bishop. The kid should just be grateful it was the Mom he was kissing… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-textual-evidence-is-there-for-an-unreliable-narrator-in-i-saw-mommy-kissing-santa-claus/845482.md?page=2)