# What the Christ? Do conservatives enjoy abusing children or what?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 4, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994 "2018-03-04T03:07:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/41 "2018-03-05T16:53:57Z")
> [@](#): > > [Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/23/child-marriage-protects-predators-must-end-former-bride-tells-kentucky-lawmakers.html) > > Donna Pollard, 34, who got pregnant a year after she got married, said she was pressured into wedlock with an abusive and violent man of 30 who first approached her when she was 14, the Louisville Courier-Journal reported. > > The man, or “perpetrator” as she called him, was working at a treatment center supposedly providing mental health counseling. Soon the relationship turned sexual and she was encouraged by her mother – herself a bride at 13 – to tie the knot. > > “The clerk didn’t even look up at me from her computer. She only asked: ‘Which one’s the minor?’ She didn’t assess if I was safe or needed something. He was 30 years old at the time, but nobody questioned the fact that he was so much older,” Pollard told the Guardian. > > Shortly after marrying, Pollard tried to flee her abusive husband and go to a domestic violence shelter, but because she was a minor she was turned away. Pollard also tried to rent a place to live but no one would let her because she was a minor. > > “I felt just completely and totally trapped,” Pollard told Kentucky Senate Judiciary Committee last Friday. > > She is now advocating for legislation that would raise the required age for marriage in the state from 16 to 18 and create protections for underage girls to prevent coercion. This is not strictly about age, people. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/42 "2018-03-05T17:09:02Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > This is not strictly about age, people. Though the text you cited is exactly about age :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/43 "2018-03-05T17:22:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Massachusetts and California might currently allow a twelve-year-old to marry with approval from parents and a judge, but you can just bet that if any judge did give approval for a twelve-year-old to marry, the law would be changed within a week, and that judge would be out of a job at the next opportunity. Laws are passed when they’re needed. Perhaps 12 would be the age that triggered that outrage. But this [Child Marriage – Shocking Statistics - Unchained At Last](http://www.unchainedatlast.org/child-marriage-shocking-statistics/) website suggests that people just don’t really care enough to change those laws or fire those judges. Massachusetts actually had a 14 married sometime between 2000 and 2010. Kentucky had a 10 year old married. Washington state had a 13 year old married. Now, I think adolescent romance between adolescents or a 16 and a 18 year old to be relatively natural and fine. But a 10 year old being married strikes me as the sort of thing that should be changed. That’s a fifth grader! :eek::eek::eek::eek: But, if that’s these people’s culture who am I to judge? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/44 "2018-03-05T17:23:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Remember: child molestation is OK in the eyes of Republicans if it’s a Good Christian Man doing it. > > cf. Moore, Roy. Yep, some religions are fine to dump on around here. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/45 "2018-03-05T17:42:02Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Though the text you cited is exactly about age :dubious: Did you miss the part about creating protections to prevent coercion? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/46 "2018-03-05T17:46:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Unless there’s an error in the article, the conservative group is 100% pushing for more, not less, restrictive language. In this case they’re doing the right thing. The following is pure speculation. My guess is that those who oppose the more restrictive language do so because of fear of abusive parents. The fear is that a girl might be trying to get out from under the thumb of her abusive parents, and her best option might be to marry her boyfriend, and an impartial judge might agree with her. But her parents, seeking to maintain their control over her life, would object to this. A further subtext, is that a common example of abusive parents, or “abusive parents”, might involve religiously conservative parents, with the girl looking to break free of this and move on to a more free and easy lifestyle. In this scenario, the parents would be looking to maintain their control over her life and keep her in this enforced religiously repressive situation. My guess is that this is at the root of the “religious conservative group vs others” dynamic here. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/47 "2018-03-05T19:02:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > P… > Now, I think adolescent romance between adolescents or a 16 and a 18 year old to be relatively natural and fine. But a 10 year old being married strikes me as the sort of thing that should be changed. That’s a fifth grader! :eek::eek::eek::eek: But, if that’s these people’s culture who am I to judge? But we are talking about 16-17 years old here. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/48 "2018-03-05T19:25:38Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I keep reading the thread title as '. . .abusing chicken. . ." and was looking forward to seeing who on the right was a chicken fucker. Who on the right _isn’t_? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/49 "2018-03-05T19:32:22Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I keep reading the thread title as '. . .abusing chicken. . ." and was looking forward to seeing who on the right was a chicken fucker. Or choker. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/50 "2018-03-05T19:54:42Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Or choker. Egg-zactly. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/51 "2018-03-05T20:07:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If only it were that simple. We can’t keep kids under 18 from having sex, so pregnancies are going to ensue. Do we say: you’re old enough to get pregnant, but not old enough to marry? I don’t think the answer to that is always: Yes, we do want to say that. It might often be the right answer, but I don’t think it’s always the right answer. In the US it is not unusual for a 12 year old girl to be able to get pregnant and give birth. I am not sure we should connect when a girl can get married to when she can get pregnant. I realize you were not saying it necessarily should be that way but I am suggesting that connection should not be made at all. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/52 "2018-03-05T20:55:37Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The following is pure speculation. > > My guess is that those who oppose the more restrictive language do so because of fear of abusive parents. The fear is that a girl might be trying to get out from under the thumb of her abusive parents, and her best option might be to marry her boyfriend, and an impartial judge might agree with her. But her parents, seeking to maintain their control over her life, would object to this. > > A further subtext, is that a common example of abusive parents, or “abusive parents”, might involve religiously conservative parents, with the girl looking to break free of this and move on to a more free and easy lifestyle. In this scenario, the parents would be looking to maintain their control over her life and keep her in this enforced religiously repressive situation. > > My guess is that this is at the root of the “religious conservative group vs others” dynamic here. That’s possible. My suspicion is a little different: that folks who would require a judge’s approval consider that enough, that there are a vanishingly small number of cases where the judge approves but the parents don’t, and that they consider this to be a symbolic gesture not worth delaying the law over. Further, I’d suspect that in the very few cases where things go down like this (teen says yes, judge says yes, parent says no), there’s something weird enough going on between teen and parent that the parent’s judgment might be flawed. But it’s speculation on my part as well. Does anyone have any stats how often a child gets married with the approval of a judge but against the parents’ wishes? Does anyone have an example of a marriage like that? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/53 "2018-03-05T21:02:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > But it’s speculation on my part as well. Does anyone have any stats how often a child gets married with the approval of a judge but against the parents’ wishes? Does anyone have an example of a marriage like that? I have no examples or stats but I would speculate that a child would need to be legally emancipated from his/her parents to get married without their consent if the child is under age 18 (or whatever the law specifies). ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/54 "2018-03-05T22:20:40Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Did you miss the part about creating protections to prevent coercion? Yeah, but I don’t get that part. It seems to me it should read “raise the minimum age to 18 OR create laws to prevent coercion of underage girls.” If you raise the age limit, you’ve addressed all the issues she had. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/55 "2018-03-06T14:30:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > In the US it is not unusual for a 12 year old girl to be able to get pregnant and give birth. > > I am not sure we should connect when a girl can get married to when she can get pregnant. I realize you were not saying it necessarily should be that way but I am suggesting that connection should not be made at all. But we don’t need to sever the connection completely in order to deal with that special case anymore than we already deal with the case that 16-year-olds are allowed to drive but 12-year-olds are not. We recognize that there is a significant difference between 16-year-olds and 12-year-olds. So, the case of the pregnant 12-year-old is not relevant. We are not requiring 16-year-olds to marry if they get pregnant. We are recognizing that, often, there are no good options and marriage might sometimes be the least worst. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/56 "2018-03-07T17:12:54Z")
Yeah, I’m not really seeing the outrage here. Granted, I’m coming from a cultural background where the tradition is to delay marriage until both parties have their first graduate degree, but… I find it hard to swallow that some people on this board think that marrying at 18 is just fine but marrying at 17 is RAPING CHILDREN OMG11111 [This](https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/20/us-new-york-governor-signs-anti-child-marriage-law) seems like a pretty good article, focusing on similar legislation which just passed in that fundamentalist redneck hellhole, New York. NY just raised the minimum age for marriage with judicial approval to 17 from 14. Between 2000 and 2010, 3850 people under 18 married in New York, so clearly this is a thing that happens even in the enlightened North. The article cites research showing that marrying under 18 is correlated with various poor life outcomes (remember, correlation is not causation). I would be very interested to see the data on outcomes from marriage at other ages; I would be quite surprised to learn that outcomes for those married at exactly 18 were significantly better than those married at 17. So yes, marrying young is generally a bad choice, but people have the right to make bad choices, and we shouldn’t be so quick to judge decisions made by people in situations far removed from our own. It seems to me to make more sense to have a “gray zone” of ages where parents and judges have a say than to pretend that people suddenly go from being “children in need of protection” to “adults fully capable of making all their own decisions” on their 18th birthday. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/57 "2018-03-07T17:16:49Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > This is not strictly about age, people. That’s absolutely disgusting. Many villains in that story, but the thing that really outrages me is that she couldn’t get into a domestic violence shelter because she was a minor! I would much rather see the state focusing on making sure people have the resources to get out from under the consequences of making bad decisions, rather than trying to outlaw making bad decisions in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994/58 "2018-03-07T22:31:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Did you not read the part about the child who was forced by her parents to marry her abuser? This isn’t about parents protecting their children-This is about parents _owning_ their children. If the parents were worth a shit, instead of forcing their child to marry the abuser, they’d shoot his sorry ass to pieces. And then use the “He needed killin” defense. > [@](#): > > Donna Pollard, a leading advocate for the bill, told the Courier Journal that she was married at 16 to an older man who had sexually abused her since she was just 14. She said she was encouraged to marry by her mother, who had been wed at just 13 years old herself. She described her former husband as a “perpetrator” who regularly abused her. … > Eileen Recktenwald, the executive director of the Kentucky Association of Sexual Assault Programs, also expressed her disgust. > “This is legalized rape of children,” Recktenwald told the Courier Journal. “We cannot allow that to continue in Kentucky, and I cannot believe we are even debating this in the year 2018 in the United States.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-christ-do-conservatives-enjoy-abusing-children-or-what/809994.md?page=2)