# What the difference between a pirate and a privateer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 17, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137 "2006-05-17T18:06:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/21 "2006-05-17T22:54:14Z")
[QUOTE=solkoe] So did the British hire privateers to pillage American ships during the revolutionary war? How does one become a privateer by the way? [/QUOTE] In most cases, “hiring” wouldn’t be the right concept. It was real free enterprise stuff, get your letter of marque, your ship and your band of cutthroats, and head out where there were likely to be enemy merchant ships. IIRC, it was fairly common for ordinary merchant ships to carry a letter of marque, in case they got a chance to jump an enemy ship on the way. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/22 "2006-05-18T05:31:17Z")
And let’s not forget that in the modern Canadian folksong context, [privateers](http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~jacktar/barretts.html) plied the Atlantic coast to prey on Americans and win American gold. [Pirates](http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/lastsask.htm), on the other hand, ply the River Saskatchewan and the Mighty Wascana, prey on farmers, and steal their wheat, barley, other grain, and of course, their fer-til-iii-zer - at least until freeze-up. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/23 "2006-05-18T05:40:14Z")
> [@](#): > > The use of privateers is now outlawed . . . Oddly, contractors are allowed. So now I need to ask: whats the difference between a privateer and a contractor? The privateer has their own ship while the contractor uses yours? No, that would be the difference between a privateer and a consultant. Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/24 "2006-05-18T17:35:15Z")
Incidentally, the term “privateer” comes from the legal standing of the vessel as a “private ship of war”, as opposed to the “national” ships of the country’s navy. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/25 "2006-05-18T17:43:47Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] So now I need to ask: whats the difference between a privateer and a contractor? The privateer has their own ship while the contractor uses yours? No, that would be the difference between a privateer and a consultant. Anyone know? [/QUOTE] The contractor’s job is defined more closely than that of the privateer? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/26 "2006-05-19T04:45:42Z")
Privateers aren’t allowed change orders for substantial changes in conditions? (Still trying to guess. Writing and processing change orders was my first experience with contractors.) ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/27 "2006-05-19T14:07:03Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] So now I need to ask: whats the difference between a privateer and a contractor? [/QUOTE] There is no comparison. Certainly, the military uses private contractors for many tasks which were formerly performed by in-house personnel. These tasks, however, do _not_ include cruising the seas in search of enemy merchant ships to attack or seizure of enemy trade goods as prizes. Privateering is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/28 "2006-05-19T16:24:17Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] So now I need to ask: whats the difference between a privateer and a contractor? The privateer has their own ship while the contractor uses yours? No, that would be the difference between a privateer and a consultant. Anyone know? [/QUOTE] One is a completely sociopathic entity, sacking and looking weaker targets, driven to maximize his profit even at the expense of human life, and the other is just a pirate with a letter of marque. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/29 "2006-05-19T16:28:59Z")
[QUOTE=Sailboat] One is a completely sociopathic entity, sacking and looking weaker targets, driven to maximize his profit even at the expense of human life, and the other is just a pirate with a letter of marque. Sailboat [/QUOTE] Looting…looting. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/30 "2006-05-19T16:51:42Z")
I gotta wonder. . . How many of these Letters of Marque were forgeries? Capt: “Avast mateys!! There’s a fifth-ship-of-the-line off the port bow! We can outflank 'er and blast down 'er mainsail!” 1st Mate: “But Captain, we can’t do that, else we’re pirates!” Capt: “Damn it! Open our sails on the poop deck and bring us to half speed! Then, grab some parchment and my quill! I’ve got to go write something down real quick!” Parrot: “SQWAAAAWK! Remember the Alamo! Remember the Alamo! SQWAAAAWK!” Tripler Anyone got any references for that situation? ---
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/31 "2006-05-19T16:59:46Z")
[QUOTE=Tripler] I gotta wonder. . . How many of these Letters of Marque were forgeries? (snip) Tripler Anyone got any references for that situation? [/QUOTE] No references, but …official documents of the time looked really official. It would take a scrivener with a lot of skill to make a decent looking forgery…and the penalty for forgery was death… So I doubt it happened much, but I’m quite prepared to be contradicted by someone with actual data. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/32 "2006-05-19T17:20:10Z")
[QUOTE=Tripler] I gotta wonder. . . How many of these Letters of Marque were forgeries? Capt: “Avast mateys!! There’s a fifth-ship-of-the-line off the port bow! We can outflank 'er and blast down 'er mainsail!” 1st Mate: “But Captain, we can’t do that, else we’re pirates!” Capt: “Damn it! Open our sails on the poop deck and bring us to half speed! Then, grab some parchment and my quill! I’ve got to go write something down real quick!” Parrot: “SQWAAAAWK! Remember the Alamo! Remember the Alamo! SQWAAAAWK!” Tripler Anyone got any references for that situation? [/QUOTE] It isn’t that you need to have a Letter of Marque in hand when you take an enemy merchant - if you beat them in battle, you’re taking their ship & cargo whether they like it or not. They’ll still fight back if they think they have a decent chance of winning/getting away, even if you wave a LoM at them. It’s when the British Navy catches you with 3 British merchant ships in tow that the LoM comes into play. No Letter - hang you as a pirate. Have a Letter - they take your ship as a prize, send it and you back to England to be interned as a POW for the duration of the war. Once you get back to England, if there’s some question to the validity of your Letter of Marque, that’s when they’ll examine it for forgery, communicate with the government that issued it, etc. If it turns out you didn’t have a valid LoM, they’ll hang you then. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/33 "2006-05-19T17:54:33Z")
Was there someplace where these were recorded? I mean suppose you had one, but didn’t have it on you? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/34 "2006-05-19T18:19:21Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] So now I need to ask: whats the difference between a privateer and a contractor? [/QUOTE] Civ won’t have Contractor units until version six. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/35 "2006-05-19T18:32:35Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] Was there someplace where these were recorded? I mean suppose you had one, but didn’t have it on you? [/QUOTE] Certainly, the issuing government would keep records, just like they would when issuing any document. Say you were an American merchantman with a letter of marque to prey on the British during the War of 1812. You capture a prize, sail it back to an American prize court, and then go, “Whoops, I lost my letter”. No biggie–just send a messenger to Washington for a copy. But suppose instead, after capturing your prize, you were intercepted by a British warship. Are you a pirate or a POW? One clue would be where you were and how you had treated the captured crew. If you were sailing toward Barbados and the merchant crew had all “died defending their ship”, good luck. If you were sailing toward Boston and were able to present a live, humanely treated captured crew, you’d have a better chance. The Brits _might_ condescend to drag you back to London, throw you in a moldy jail, and let you sit there for a couple of years while they made inquiries to America. Note: I don’t know of any actual cases where this happened, I’m just reasoning out the likely consequences based on the difference between how pirates and privateers behave. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/36 "2006-05-19T18:35:10Z")
[Here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Drake) is an account of the career of a particularily famous privateer during the reign of Elizabeth I. He got away with a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137/37 "2006-05-19T18:38:34Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] Was there someplace where these were recorded? I mean suppose you had one, but didn’t have it on you? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=RealityChuck] Captain William Kidd was hanged because he couldn’t substantiate his claim he was a privateer. [/QUOTE] [http://privateer.omena.org/Privateer.html](http://privateer.omena.org/Privateer.html) (A good example of privateer turned pirate is Captain William Kidd who was hanged in 1701 for piracy because he could not produce a letter of marque.) _And see_, [http://www.bio.umass.edu/biology/conn.river/kidd.html](http://www.bio.umass.edu/biology/conn.river/kidd.html) (England revoked Kidd’s letters because he committed acts of piracy and caused trouble for English mercantile interests). Here is a great article that talks about pirates, privateers, and Letters Marque in the 17th century: [http://www.historycooperative.org/proceedings/seascapes/benton.html](http://www.historycooperative.org/proceedings/seascapes/benton.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-difference-between-a-pirate-and-a-privateer/357137.md?page=1)