# What the english translation of the french bird names "hibou" and "chouette" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351 "2005-06-22T13:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/1 "2005-06-22T13:24:11Z")
The title says it all. Responding to another, thread, I had some doubts about the correct translation of the word “chouette”, and thought that maybe I was mistaking it with “hibou”. But when I checked my dictionnary, it gave the same translation “owl” for both birds, though they’re very different in appearance. So, ho do you tell them apart in english? For non french-speakers, a couple pictures : [This night bird](http://www.luberon-news.com/max-gallardo/hibou.htm) is a “hibou”. [and this one](http://ctm.mayotte.free.fr/faune/pages/chouette.htm) a “chouette”. The “hibou” facial feathers form kind of pointed “hears” on each side of the head, while the facial feathers of the “chouette” form a kind of white flat and round “mask”. ---
**Author:** ![Phatlewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Phatlewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatlewt)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/2 "2005-06-22T13:27:29Z")
“hibou” is a Great Horned Owl. [http://www.owlpages.com/species/bubo/virginianus/Default.htm](http://www.owlpages.com/species/bubo/virginianus/Default.htm) I think “chouette” is called a Barn Owl. [http://www.owlpages.com/species/tyto/alba/Default.htm](http://www.owlpages.com/species/tyto/alba/Default.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/3 "2005-06-22T13:28:53Z")
Oops, forgot to log in. Sorry Phatlewt (the post above was me). ---
**Author:** ![pasunejen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@pasunejen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pasunejen)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/4 "2005-06-22T13:29:07Z")
The chouette looks like a [barn owl](http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/animal-bytes/animalia/eumetazoa/coelomates/deuterostomes/chordates/craniata/aves/strigiformes/barn-owl.htm). Not sure about the other. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/5 "2005-06-22T13:47:28Z")
Odd. I’ve always used hibou as a generic word for owl ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/6 "2005-06-22T13:49:16Z")
Thanks for the answers. Now I’ve another question : are there some significant differences between the two birds, from a biological point of view that would justify the use of two different names, or is it a purely arbitrary distinction? I always assumed they belonged to two clearly different species, simply on the basis of them having different names in french. But now I’m thinking that maybe there’s as much difference between two species of “chouette” than between a “chouette” and a “hibou”. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/7 "2005-06-22T13:56:45Z")
Yes, biologically, they are not only two different species, they two types are in different genus. There are many types of barn owl but they are all in genus _Tyto_. The Great Horned owl (along with a number of owl species called Eagle Owls) are in genus _Bubo_. Speaking culturally, the two types have very different “faces” and “expressions” (with the Great Horned Owl looking rather imperious and the barn owl more meek and kind). This is the kind of thing humans remark on and remember in other animals, giving rise to the linguistic distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/8 "2005-06-22T13:57:50Z")
I think French is making a distinction here that we wouldn’t make in English. In English, owls is owls. That notwithstanding, I understand from the dictionary that _chouette_ is a more particular word than _hibou,_ covering only owls of the family Strigidae. So to me, that would make a _chouette_ a type of _hibou._ Your _kilométrage_ may vary. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/9 "2005-06-22T14:15:33Z")
This question illustrates one of the differences in the way the English and French languages operate. In French, the tendancy is to have much more specific nouns, unique to the thing being named. In English, the tendency is to have more general nouns, with distinctions being indicated by adjectives. Here’s another example: in English, we refer to the Ottawa River and St. Lawrence River, but in French they’re la Rivière Outaouais and la Fleuve St-Laurent. French makes a distinction that we don’t make in English: “fleuve” is a stream that flows into the sea, while “rivière” is a stream that flows into some other body of water, such as a lake, or another river, or into a “fleuve”. If we had to indicate that distinction in English, we’d use adjectives: the Ottawa is a tributary river of the St. Lawrence, which is a maritime river. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/10 "2005-06-22T14:19:34Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > I think French is making a distinction here that we wouldn’t make in English. In English, owls is owls. That notwithstanding, I understand from the dictionary that _chouette_ is a more particular word than _hibou,_ covering only owls of the family Strigidae. So to me, that would make a _chouette_ a type of _hibou._ Your _kilométrage_ may vary. I always understood the words as refering to two different birds, like say “eagle” and “falcon”, not as one being a sub-category of another Following your post, I searched in a (french) dictionnary to find out the exact definitions , and it appears that “hibou” refers to the genus (genuses???) : Asio, Bubo and Hotus while “chouette” refers to the genus “Tyto” in common parlance but for an ornithologist is a generic name for all “Strigidae”. So, does the common distinction make any particular sense? Is there more difference between a bird vrom the “Tyto” genus (chouette) and a bird from the “Bubo” genus (hibou) than between for instance a “Bubo” and an “Asio” (both hibou)? I understand the idea that distinctive appearance have more weight for common names of animals than classification, but now, I’m curious. Besides I’m also wondering if the different names given to various prey birds (be it in french or in english) are equally arbitrary from the point of view of an ornithologist (say, the difference between a falcon, a hawk, a buzzard…). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/11 "2005-06-22T14:25:45Z")
Just to add that a distinction is made between the Bubo, Asio and Hotus by calling them the french equivalent of “great duke” “medium duke” and “little duke”, but I wouldn’t know if these names originated in the usual language or were created by ornithologists. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/12 "2005-06-22T14:35:54Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > [This night bird](http://www.luberon-news.com/max-gallardo/hibou.htm) is a “hibou”. Although that does resemble the Great Horned Owl (_Bubo virginianus_) of North America, it is actually the closely related Eurasian Eagle-Owl (_Bubo bubo)_). > [@](#): > > [and this one](http://ctm.mayotte.free.fr/faune/pages/chouette.htm) a “chouette”. That is the Barn Owl _Tyto alba_, which occurs in both Europe and the Americas. French makes many more distinctions between various kinds of owls that English does. The official list of French names in the American Ornithologist’s Union checklist includes the following (I am not going to attempt to include the proper accents): _Effraie de clochers_ = Barn Owl (other members of this family being collectively known as _effraies_). _Grand-duc d’Amerique_ = Great Horned Owl. Several other “eared” owls are called _duc_; depending on size they may be _Grand-ducs, ducs_, or _petit-ducs._ Long-eared, Short-eared, and related owls are called _hibou_. Barred Owls and relatives are called _chouette_. Various other kinds of owls are called _harfang_ (Snowy Owl), \*cheveche, chevechette, \*and _nyctale._ Note that these are “official” common names, and the names as actually used by the general public are apt to vary regionally. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/13 "2005-06-22T14:36:01Z")
Wait…I think might have gotten it wrong. Is the “genus” “above” or “below” the familly? I mean, does a genus belongs to a “family” or a “family” to a “genus”? A link given above places the family above the genus, but \*\* Sal Ammoniac \*\* comment about hibou refering _only_ to the Strigidae seems to imply otherwise… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/14 "2005-06-22T14:45:37Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > This question illustrates one of the differences in the way the English and French languages operate. In French, the tendancy is to have much more specific nouns, unique to the thing being named. In English, the tendency is to have more general nouns, with distinctions being indicated by adjectives. > . I’ve already noticed the lack of word for “fleuve” in english (and by the way also the lack od distinction between a “lac” and an “etang”, while we’re talking about water), but can you make a general rule of it? Not to derail my own thread, but generally, it’s the reverse argument that I read here (english has a largest vocabulary and all that…). Though I don’t buy in the latter argument, I’m not convinced the former is true, either… ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/15 "2005-06-22T14:45:54Z")
The problem here is the difference between what a specialist might call these birds, and what a layperson would call them. In lay language, the English word used would be “owl” for both _chouette_ and _hibou._ And this would be correct, more correct than calling a falcon an eagle. That said, people are pretty ignorant about the names of things – calling a falcon an eagle would be the least of their crimes. It’s unbelievably common, for example, for people to call wasps “bees.” I imagine that urbanized French people have the same problem, and that plenty of them would call a _chouette_ a _hibou_. But the more specialized terms – Bubo, Strigidae, Tyto, et al. – are only used by scientists or dedicated birders. I’ll leave the classification aspect for them to chew over, and express as pellets. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/16 "2005-06-22T15:01:04Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Following your post, I searched in a (french) dictionnary to find out the exact definitions , and it appears that “hibou” refers to the genus (genuses???) : Asio, Bubo and Hotus while “chouette” refers to the genus “Tyto” in common parlance but for an ornithologist is a generic name for all “Strigidae”. To address this directly, according to the AOU list _Asio_ is _hibou_, _Bubo_ is _grand-duc_, _Otus_ is _petit-duc_, and _Tyto_ is _effraie_. _Chouette_ is used for the genera _Ciccaba, Strix_, and _Surnia._ But these are North American French, and popular usage in France itself may vary. > [@](#): > > So, does the common distinction make any particular sense? Is there more difference between a bird vrom the “Tyto” genus (chouette) and a bird from the “Bubo” genus (hibou) than between for instance a “Bubo” and an “Asio” (both hibou)? _Tyto_ belongs to a separate family (Tytonidae). However, even within the other family of owls (Strigidae) many genera have their own names, while some members of different genera use the same name. As is frequent with common names, there is no consistency. > [@](#): > > Besides I’m also wondering if the different names given to various prey birds (be it in french or in english) are equally arbitrary from the point of view of an ornithologist (say, the difference between a falcon, a hawk, a buzzard…). Falcons belong to a distinctive family, the Falconidae, which also includes caracaras. The other family of diurnal raptors is the Accipitridae, which includes hawks, eagles, kites, harriers, Old World vultures, and others. None of the latter names have any specific scientific meaning, but can refer to various forms which may not be that closely related. “Buzzard” properly refers to hawks of the genus _Buteo_, such as the Red-tailed Hawk. However, in North America this name was applied by early colonists to the Turkey Vulture (which belongs to the New World Vultures, which, as it turns out, are not related to the Old World Vultures, but are actually a kind of stork). This usage is probably now too firmly ingrained to attempt to change the names of the New World _Buteos_ to “buzzards.” Sometimes common names have some definite relationship to scientific categories, but more often than not they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/17 "2005-06-22T15:09:08Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > I imagine that urbanized French people have the same problem, and that plenty of them would call a _chouette_ a _hibou_. > . I’m not sure of it in this particular case, because the “hibou” and “chouette” are quite well separated in popular representation, including for instance in children books. That’s why I wondered about this at the first place, because I was mentionning a custom of crucifying “chouettes” on barn’s doors while there has never been such a custom for “hiboux”. “Chouettes” are associated with evil and are supposed to announce death when they howl or fly over. While “hiboux” generally have positive connotations, in particular wisdom (for instance, coming back to children books, a hibou is likely to be an old teacher or somesuch). I remember a clear dislike of “chouettes” amongst my peers when I was a kid (I remember in particular a day when the teacher brought a stuffed “chouette” in the classroom). Not to say that the fact this distinction is AFAICT quite wisepread would man that french people don’t commonly mistake various animals for other ones, like in your bee/wasp example. Or maybe, since precisely I’ve been a rural kid, I overestimate my more urbanite fellow frenchmen knowledge about animals. Now , I get yet another somehow related question (due to the hibou/wisdom thing). Could one tell what specie (or genus, or whatever) the bird associated with Athena belonged to? For instance, it’s depicted [here](http://www.24carat.co.uk/2002greeceeurosetsframe.html) on the greek 1 € coin. Or is it impossible to know/ to tell? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/18 "2005-06-22T15:14:46Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Now , I get yet another somehow related question (due to the hibou/wisdom thing). Could one tell what specie (or genus, or whatever) the bird associated with Athena belonged to? For instance, it’s depicted [here](http://www.24carat.co.uk/2002greeceeurosetsframe.html) on the greek 1 € coin. Or is it impossible to know/ to tell? Logically, it should be a _Chevêche d’ Athéna_, but Colibri might have a better answer. By the way, your detail on the popular distinction between \*chouettes \*and \*hiboux \* is fascinating, and unknown to me. And I suspect you’re right that there’s a distinction between rural and urban on this one. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/19 "2005-06-22T15:19:36Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Falcons belong to a distinctive family, the Falconidae, which also includes caracaras. The other family of diurnal raptors is the Accipitridae, which includes hawks, eagles, kites, harriers, Old World vultures, and others. None of the latter names have any specific scientific meaning, but can refer to various forms which may not be that closely related. I would never have suspected that eagles or hawks were more closely related to vultures than to falcons, due to their appearance. [quote] “Buzzard” properly refers to hawks of the genus _Buteo_, such as the Red-tailed Hawk. However, in North America this name was applied by early colonists to the Turkey Vulture (which belongs to the New World Vultures, which, as it turns out, are not related to the Old World Vultures, but are actually a kind of stork). This usage is probably now too firmly ingrained to attempt to change the names of the New World _Buteos_ to “buzzards.” [quote] Which answer to another question I didn’t ask but occured to me while writing my post. I was actually refering to the large hawk-looking raptor. But I had to search its english name in the dictionnary, and was quite surprised to find “buzzard” since I indeed always thought the buzzards were vultures. Thanks for all the answers… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/20 "2005-06-22T15:23:02Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Now , I get yet another somehow related question (due to the hibou/wisdom thing). Could one tell what specie (or genus, or whatever) the bird associated with Athena belonged to? For instance, it’s depicted [here](http://www.24carat.co.uk/2002greeceeurosetsframe.html) on the greek 1 € coin. Or is it impossible to know/ to tell? Traditionally the owl of Athena is considered to be the [Little Owl](http://www.justbirds.org/Italia/Little%20owl%203.jpg), as testified by its scientific name _Athene noctua_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351.md?page=2)