# What the english translation of the french bird names "hibou" and "chouette" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351 "2005-06-22T13:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/21 "2005-06-22T15:27:00Z")
Incidentally, the owls are not closely related to the diurnal birds of prey (hawks, falcons, Old World Vultures) but are instead closer to the nightjars (nighthawks, whippoorwills, and other nocturnal species.) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/22 "2005-06-22T15:29:30Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > Logically, it should be a _Chevêche d’ Athéna_, but Colibri might have a better answer. > > By the way, your detail on the popular distinction between \*chouettes \*and \*hiboux. My thread is going in all directions, but I’m now wondering if the custom of crucifying night birds (be they chouettes, effraies or owls) is a purely french one or if it exists (or more likely existed) in other european countries… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/23 "2005-06-22T15:30:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Incidentally, the owls are not closely related to the diurnal birds of prey (hawks, falcons, Old World Vultures) but are instead closer to the nightjars (nighthawks, whippoorwills, and other nocturnal species.) I didn’t even know such birds existed… Would you have some link about them? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/24 "2005-06-22T15:33:27Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Traditionally the owl of Athena is considered to be the [Little Owl](http://www.justbirds.org/Italia/Little%20owl%203.jpg), as testified by its scientific name _Athene noctua_. Thanks. Actually, to my surprise, the depiction is fairly accurate and really looks like the real bird. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/25 "2005-06-22T15:42:05Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Note that these are “official” common names, and the names as actually used by the general public are apt to vary regionally. Most certainly. For me, an "effraie"was some sub-category of “chouette” and though I knew that “cheveches” existed, for al I knew about them, they culdhave been nightingales. I also believed for a long time that “harfangs” were some kind of rodents :smack: until I saw a picture of one. Maybe I should abstain from making comments about other people’s unability to tell animals apart… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/26 "2005-06-22T15:49:43Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I didn’t even know such birds existed… Would you have some link about them? [Here](http://www.hbw.com/hbw/volume5/plate513.html) are some illustrations, and [here](http://www.montereybay.com/creagrus/nightjars.html) is some information. Other related familes, such as the [potoos (Nyctibidae),](http://www.hbw.com/hbw/volume5/plate510.html) [frogmouths (Podargidae)](http://www.orientalbirdclub.org/assets/forks/frogmouth.jpg), and [owlet-nightjars (Aegothelidae)](http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/resources/grzimek_birds/Aegothelidae/Aegotheles_insignis.jpg/medium.jpg) look even more like owls. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/27 "2005-06-22T16:01:54Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Other related familes, such as the [potoos (Nyctibidae),](http://www.hbw.com/hbw/volume5/plate510.html) [frogmouths (Podargidae)](http://www.orientalbirdclub.org/assets/forks/frogmouth.jpg), and [owlet-nightjars (Aegothelidae)](http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/resources/grzimek_birds/Aegothelidae/Aegotheles_insignis.jpg/medium.jpg) look even more like owls. Weird birds…some look like a crossing betwen an owl and a parrot, and others like creatures from the star wars movies… ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/28 "2005-06-22T17:30:46Z")
For what it’s worth, **Colibri’s** little owl (_Athene noctua_) is the same thing as the _Chevêche d’Athéna._ Did I mention how much I’m enjoying this thread? Don’t know why, since I’m not a bird person in particular. All right, here’s a bizarre but semi-related question – in the French translation of Harry Potter, what is Hedwig? A _hibou_ or something else? ---
**Author:** ![pasunejen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@pasunejen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pasunejen)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/29 "2005-06-22T17:47:10Z")
She’s a snowy owl, which translates as "[harfang des neiges](http://ecoroute.uqcn.qc.ca/envir/faune/harfang.htm) ". And now I know what our own **Nyctea Scandiaca** ’s name means. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/30 "2005-06-22T17:55:38Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I’ve already noticed the lack of word for “fleuve” in english (and by the way also the lack od distinction between a “lac” and an “etang”, while we’re talking about water), but can you make a general rule of it? As I understand it, isn’t an “étang” a pond? At any rate, as for “fleuve,” some Canadians make the mistake of thinking that the translation for “fleuve” would be “seaway,” because of the Saint Lawrence Seaway. However, the Seaway is actually a system of canals that make the river navigable from Brockville to Montreal; the French is “Voie maritime du Saint-Laurent.” “Fleuve Saint-Laurent” is the Saint Lawrence River. A further tangle: there are two major rivers in Canada called Churchill River; but the one in Manitoba flows into Hudson Bay, and the one in Labrador flows into the Atlantic. So they’re called “rivière Churchill” and “fleuve Churchill” respectively. Getting back to owls, in Canada there are fairly standardized references for bird names. Check out the Grand Dictionnaire terminologique, run by the Office québécois de la langue française: [http://www.granddictionnaire.com/](http://www.granddictionnaire.com/) . ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/31 "2005-06-22T18:00:37Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > All right, here’s a bizarre but semi-related question – in the French translation of Harry Potter, what is Hedwig? A _hibou_ or something else? “Harfang des neiges” is the most common word for snowy owl, but apparently a “harfang” is regarded as a type of “chouette,” not “hibou,” as I also find “chouette blanche.” I can’t find **Hamish** ’s copy of _Harry Potter à l’école des sorciers_, so I can only note for the present that Google turns up both “Hedwig la chouette” and “Hedwig le harfang,” but with more for “chouette.” Since I suppose snowy owls are less well-known in Europe than in Canada (they’re Quebec’s provincial bird), a bit of terminological inexactitude might be expected. (As far as I know, _N. scandiaca_ is the only species of “harfang,” so I find it a little odd for it to be modified by “des neiges”.) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/32 "2005-06-22T18:02:39Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > > [@Northern Piper](#): > > > > This question illustrates one of the differences in the way the English and French languages operate. In French, the tendancy is to have much more specific nouns, unique to the thing being named. In English, the tendency is to have more general nouns, with distinctions being indicated by adjectives. > > I’ve already noticed the lack of word for “fleuve” in english (and by the way also the lack od distinction between a “lac” and an “etang”, while we’re talking about water), but can you make a general rule of it? Not to derail my own thread, but generally, it’s the reverse argument that I read here (english has a largest vocabulary and all that…). Though I don’t buy in the latter argument, I’m not convinced the former is true, either… I suspect that most generalized comparisons about languages would not stand up to very serious scrutiny. IF there is a serious distinction made along the lines that **Northern Piper** outlined, my wild assed guess would be that English has, in the last 300 years, been affected by the broad sweep of English-speaking colonization together with expanded literacy. People tend to pick up words in books and apply them to local phenomena, unaware that the same phenomena would have had a separate word among the original speakers. (We see a little bit of this between American English and British English.) For example, there is a potential distinction between _lac_ = lake and _etang_ = pond in American English, but we cannot agree on what constitutes a pond. Two definitions I have seen have been 1) a small body of water shallow enough to support bottom-rooted plants and 2) a small body of water that is fed by springs and not by a stream. In reality, however, most Americans use “pond” to mean a small body of water, with absolutely no guideline as to how small a “lake” can get before it becomes a pond. (Walden Pond satisfies both of the previous definitions, being a spring-fed body of water that is too deep to support aquatic plants. On the other hand, it was named at a time when the American settlers were closer to their British ancestors. The body of water at the end of my street is substantially smaller than Walden’s 62 acres/25 hectares, is spring fed, and is too deep for aquatic growth, yet it appears on all maps (and is universally called) a lake.) An example of my guess as to the process for the change in English can be demonstrated with the “Americanization” of the word _creek_. Originally, the word meant something similar to a small estuary or the channels or streams of water flowing through a salt marsh into an estuary. This, of course, was the first sort of stream that British settlers found in the swampy shores of Virginia and the Carolinas. However, as the children of the settlers moved inland, they applied the word to any stream smaller than a river. This would have explained its new use in the Central Appalachians, but as the word was used in print, it spread (with its new meaning) to places never settled by people moving up from the Central Atlantic states. And, again, we have the problem of relative size applied to names: I grew up near Paint Creek in Southeast Michigan, but have seen several smaller streams in the much drier American West called “rivers.” Similarly, the Porcupine Mountains of Upper Michigan would hardly rate as foothills to a person growing up in the shadow of the Rockies. We have words with which we are all familiar from reading and we apply those words to things we know in ways that the original speakers would find astonishing. With more people spread across more land, English has more possibilities to generate that sort of confusion. This would not explain the use of the single word “owl” for a broad spectrum of birds, in English. However, there are other factors at play, here. In English, “owl” means any nocturnal bird with a relatively flat face. The category is easily identified, regardless of later Linnaean efforts to parse out its members. English may very well be more “general” than French (subject to my initial _caveat_), and still find itself in possession of more words than other languages because of its widespread use. For example, English already had gorge and defile to describe one particular set of landforms, but once the Americans emigrating from the plains where there were no gorges or defiles began bumping into Mexican canyons _(cañones)_, they adopted that word to describe the phenomenon. Writing of their locations, they passed the word back to those living in the East, so now we have an _additional_ word to describe a narrow, steep-sided valley. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/33 "2005-06-22T18:15:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Walden Pond satisfies both of the previous definitions, being a spring-fed body of water that is too deep to support aquatic plants. Walden Pond satisfies only one of the previous definitions, being a spring-fed body of water that is too deep to support aquatic plants. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/34 "2005-06-22T18:15:22Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Getting back to owls, in Canada there are fairly standardized references for bird names. Check out the Grand Dictionnaire terminologique, run by the Office québécois de la langue française: [http://www.granddictionnaire.com/](http://www.granddictionnaire.com/) . [Here’s](http://www.aou.org/checklist/birdlist45fr.pdf) the full AOU list of French bird names (warning: pdf). This is the complete list of the owls of North America. (The first two names are the scientific names, the remainder, the French. Unfortunately the formatting didn’t come through: ```auto TYTONIDAE Tyto alba Effraie des clochers Tyto glaucops Effraie d'Hispaniola STRIGIDAE Otus flammeolus Petit-duc nain Otus sunia Petit-duc d'Orient Megascops kennicottii Petit-duc des montagnes Megascops asio Petit-duc maculé Megascops seductus Petit-duc du Balsas Megascops cooperi Petit-duc de Cooper Megascops trichopsis Petit-duc à moustaches Megascops choliba Petit-duc choliba Megascops barbarus Petit-duc bridé Megascops guatemalae Petit-duc guatémaltèque Megascops clarkii Petit-duc de Clark Megascops nudipes Petit-duc de Porto Rico Gymnoglaux lawrencii Petit-duc de Cuba Lophostrix cristata Duc à aigrettes Pulsatrix perspicillata Chouette à lunettes Bubo virginianus Grand-duc d'Amérique Bubo scandiacus Harfang des neiges Surnia ulula Chouette épervière Glaucidium gnoma Chevêchette naine Glaucidium costaricanum Chevêchette du Costa Rica Glaucidium griseiceps Chevêchette à tête grise Glaucidium sanchezi Chevêchette du Tamaulipas Glaucidium palmarum Chevêchette du Colima Glaucidium brasilianum Chevêchette brune Glaucidium siju Chevêchette de Cuba Micrathene whitneyi Chevêchette des saguaros Athene cunicularia Chevêche des terriers Ciccaba virgata Chouette mouchetée Ciccaba nigrolineata Chouette à lignes noires Strix occidentalis Chouette tachetée Strix varia Chouette rayée Strix fulvescens Chouette fauve Strix nebulosa Chouette lapone Asio otus Hibou moyen-duc Asio stygius Hibou maître-bois Asio flammeus Hibou des marais Pseudoscops clamator Hibou strié Pseudoscops grammicus Hibou de la Jamaïque Aegolius funereus Nyctale de Tengmalm Aegolius acadicus Petite Nyctale Aegolius ridgwayi Nyctale immaculée ``` ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/35 "2005-06-22T18:42:54Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > As I understand it, isn’t an “étang” a pond? > . I thought about that, but then, what is a “mare”? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/36 "2005-06-22T18:59:12Z")
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m pretty taken with the [_chouette à lunettes_](http://www.chouettalors.com/astrid_lunettes.JPG). I wouldn’t mind having one for a pet. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/37 "2005-06-22T19:06:22Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m pretty taken with the [_chouette à lunettes_](http://www.chouettalors.com/astrid_lunettes.JPG). I wouldn’t mind having one for a pet. Yes, Spectacled Owls are cool. They are one of the commonest owls here in Panama. However, its Spanish name in Peru is not quite so appealing: _ataudero_, “coffin-maker,” because its call supposedly sounds like the dull thud of a hammer nailing a coffin lid closed. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/38 "2005-06-22T20:57:13Z")
Never mind the rest of you. When I was in Tellin and Metz, _chouette_ was a diminutive - a small owl whereas _hibou_ was a generic term for owl. That is, any small owl, regardless of species, was a _chouette_; whereas any owl, regardless of size, was a _hibou_. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/39 "2005-06-22T21:04:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > When I was in Tellin and Metz, _chouette_ was a diminutive - a small owl whereas _hibou_ was a generic term for owl. That is, any small owl, regardless of species, was a _chouette_; whereas any owl, regardless of size, was a _hibou_. Perhaps, but what is _chouette_ supposed to be a diminutive of? Nominally it might be presumed to refer to a small cabbage (_chou_), not a small owl. In any case, the owls that the name is applied to are not particularly small - mostly they are medium-sized, and one, the Great Gray Owl, is quite large. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351/40 "2005-06-22T21:34:14Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I thought about that, but then, what is a “mare”? A sea? as in the latin, “mare imbrium” (The Sea of Showers) on the moon. The odd thing is, I can only think of three bodies of water to which I would apply “sea” – The Mediaterranean Sea (which is sometimes also called by ocean), The Black Sea, and the Caspian Sea. I don’t know why the Great Lakes are called Lakes while the Black Sea is a Sea. Perhaps the first people to encounter and name them did not know how large they were. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-english-translation-of-the-french-bird-names-hibou-and-chouette/309351.md?page=3)