# What the F\_\_K is the Rapture? Who the H\_\_L thought it up? Where is this in the Bible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 5, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696 "2004-07-05T21:29:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/61 "2004-07-10T05:11:45Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > No, I already gave several reasons why not everyone would choose to convert after such an event. Human nature is simply not as clear cut as you seem to believe, and with all due respect, it seems to me that you’re striving awfully hard to find a contradiction where none necessarily applies. Not at all, I freely said that there would be some people who wouldn’t convert. Some people believe in a flat earth. I think this number would be vanishingly small, however. My thoughts are that the majority of people would. Even Thomas accepted Jesus had returned when he put his fingers in the wounds. Watching people rise up to heaven is pretty damn obvious! ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/62 "2004-07-10T05:50:49Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > I agree with Pirate, of course, but I don’t know why he or she is wasting their time, theres hardly any christians here. > > So if a lot of people on the straight dope disagree with someone points, they lose by default? > Dumb. > > We don’t expect most to believe, but when it happens you may mail your “gee, you were right” messages up to Heaven, though I don’t know the zip code. > > The rapture teology was discovered way long ago, and its there, but nonbelievers aren’t going to believe it anyway. This is interesting, in the sense that, the fruit of long meditation and prayer discloses it as complete and total bunk. How come there are so many nutty religions in America? The theory I’ve heard is based on a sort of cultural resentment that America the plentiful, is by some unjust twist of history, denied inclusion in the birthplaces of the world’s major religions. With that can-do spirit, and superabundant faith, they’ll see to that. Anyway to cease digressing, it’s interesting in raising one of the unanswered questions. What do the faithful do when the predicted event doesn’t occur. What will **Vanilla** be thinking on his deathbed or in his declining moments of sanity, when, of the imminent rapture, there hasn’t been a peep. Is it a quirk of character that inclines people to these beliefs? Certainly, **Vanilla** etc is unlikely to ever renounce that belief, superfluous as it is to Christian belief, notwithstanding. Has anyone a cite or experience of the consequences of failed predictions. How do the faithful progess? Onto greater delusions or into apostasy? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/63 "2004-07-10T14:51:14Z")
I never said it Had to happen in my lifetime. And imminent means nothing more need toi occur before it could happen. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/64 "2004-07-10T15:03:55Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > I agree with Pirate, of course, but I don’t know why he or she is wasting their time, theres hardly any christians here. SLOWLY, HE TURNED!!! STEP BY STEP… ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/65 "2004-07-10T15:11:27Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > With all due respect then, I think you’re adopting a rather naive view of human nature. Heck, I’ve encountered a great many individuals who say that they will not believe in God unless he personally steps down from heaven and speaks to them, face to face. The Rapture is unlikely to satisfy such folks. I have a friend whose family messed with Ouija & magick while she was a young teen. They had mild haunting problems (weird noises, apparitions, rare occurrences of actual moving objects). While in another town, she & her Mom were confronted by a minister they never met, who described everything they were experiencing, gave them his number & told them to call him when they had enough. A few months later, they made the call, he came & did a cleansing. They had no more problems & became Christians. She swears that soon after becoming a Christian, she seriously injured a finger & upon praying for it, saw it instantly heal. That was over five years ago. They set aside their Christianity a couple of years ago & now are seriously practicing Wicca. My friend’s house occasionally has weird noises & stuff, but now she’s comfy with it. People will come up with any excuse to avoid Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/66 "2004-07-10T15:20:22Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Watching people rise up to heaven is pretty damn obvious! Most Rapturists regard it as happening in a split second (Paul’s “twinkling of an eye” in I Corinthians 15), perhaps the speed of light. No time to see people rise into the sky. (Revelation 11 tho does mention the Two Witnesses being killed by the Beast & then rising in the sight of humanity.) There IS another theory about the Rapture also, proposed in THE CHRIST CLONE TRILOGY (best Rapturist fiction I’ve ever read!) by James BeauSeigneur- it is actually a spiritual taking into Heaven, the physical result of which is the dropping dead of all the Christians in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/67 "2004-07-10T16:20:37Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > It also says God will send a delusion so they will believe the lie, but since no verse has anything to do with the rapture, guess it means something else entirely. > > Even after all the judgments, it mentions in chapter 9, people STILL will refuse to repent. > Some just won’t accept God no matter what. Did God create those who won’t accept him **no matter what?** If so, how can this be? Do you mean that literally no experience or witnessing will bring them to God? That they are doomed\*\* from birth \*\* to eternal damnation? That seems a bit unfair. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/68 "2004-07-10T16:32:34Z")
It is. But the Bible seems to support this idea. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/69 "2004-07-10T21:12:41Z")
Kind of like how God kept “hardening the Phaoroh’s heart” for no explicable reason. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/70 "2004-07-11T21:31:44Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Most Rapturists regard it as happening in a split second (Paul’s “twinkling of an eye” in I Corinthians 15), perhaps the speed of light. No time to see people rise into the sky. (Revelation 11 tho does mention the Two Witnesses being killed by the Beast & then rising in the sight of humanity.) > > There IS another theory about the Rapture also, proposed in THE CHRIST CLONE TRILOGY (best Rapturist fiction I’ve ever read!) by James BeauSeigneur- it is actually a spiritual taking into Heaven, the physical result of which is the dropping dead of all the Christians in the world. Does anyone one else get a Larsonesque picture of people turning around and saying: “And now John has disappeared, what a minute, something funny is going on around here!” I’m with Weirddave on this one - although I think there will be more people left behind than he thinks: there will be a heck of a lot of people who don’t notice anyone is missing because there are no christians around them (eg rural Papua New Guinea) and a lot of mentally disabled people who either get really cofused or who are too catatonic to notice anything. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/71 "2004-07-12T03:11:05Z")
I honestly find it inconceivable that people who are otherwise rational can find it moral to worship a God who openly states that he will deliberately trick people into not being saved in His own Bible. He’ll send a delusion so that people will believe the lie? “Here’s your last chance for eternal salvation, but I’m going to make you believe it didn’t happen, just because I feel like it!” ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/72 "2004-07-12T14:37:03Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I honestly find it inconceivable that people who are otherwise rational can find it moral to worship a God who openly states that he will deliberately trick people into not being saved in His own Bible. He’ll send a delusion so that people will believe the lie? “Here’s your last chance for eternal salvation, but I’m going to make you believe it didn’t happen, just because I feel like it!” Well, as with the “God’s hardening Pharoah’s heart” passages (Exodus 7 puts it in context), the II Thess 2 passage conveys the thought that God gives people what they want- that if they want to defy Him in the easy times, He may not let them turn to Him when He lowers the boom. Of course, if a future Tribulation occurs, there will be people who will turn to Christ & be saved, but some who have set their characters against God will not yield in the face of His Judgment. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/73 "2004-07-12T17:18:12Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Sure, I’ll give you some, but if suddenly all the Christians float up to heaven on their own, it’s pretty darn convincing. Is there anyone here who doesn’t currently believe in God or the rapture who wouldn’t take that as concrete proof that God exists and he wants you to be Christian? Not necessarily so. Let’s assume I belong to some non-christian religion, and that my religious leaders tell me that all these chrisitans were wipped out as a punishment by my own god(s)? Why would I believe these 144 000 evangelists rather than my religious leaders, especially since I’m not familiar with the concept of rapture (heck! Even most _christians_ in the world never heard about this concept!)? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696/74 "2004-07-12T17:22:30Z")
Apart from that, I’m going to say once again that people who are convinced it will happen during their lifetime, besides merely believing the same thing that many other people who now are lying in graveyards did over the course of the centuries, are actually stating they know better than Jesus himself who stated that not even _Him_ knew the day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-f__k-is-the-rapture-who-the-h__l-thought-it-up-where-is-this-in-the-bible/253696.md?page=3)