# What the fuck, bank?! Lies I say, LIES!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503 "2013-05-28T00:27:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/21 "2013-05-28T03:01:52Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > When you deposit the check via ATM are you putting it in an envelope? If not then odds are very good that the check is processed long before any human touches it. > > If not, then odds are still very good that no human is doing any more processing of that check than taking it out of the envelope (and depending on how they’re handling their ATMs maybe not even then, when you pay your phone bill by check it goes to a lockbox account where it will be removed from the envelope, separated, the payment coupon will be read, the accompanying check will be read and all the accounts appropriately dealt with without any human ever looking at it) and feeding it into another machine that does what a modern ATM does without the envelope. It’s not a very modern ATM. I do put it in an envelope, yes. While I don’t know how they handle deposits, I do know they empty the ATMs daily for cards left in the machine or held by the computer. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/22 "2013-05-28T03:10:19Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > But see, it’s not the ATM that’s cashing my check. Someone in the bank is taking my check out of the ATM and crediting my account with the money. That’s why the money isn’t available until the next business day. There have been a couple times when I’ve been in overdraft and deposited a (post-dated) check in thru the ATM and the next day I had the sum of the check, minus the amount of my overdraft plus whatever fees where applicable, available to me as funds. Those actions aren’t performed by the ATM, they are performed by bank employees. You were referring to having $200 immediately available but nothing when you see a teller. That available money is a function of using an ATM- Giving you access to some of the money until they verify the contents. That’s “conspiracy” that was being referred to that I was addressing. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/23 "2013-05-28T03:14:13Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > They’ll just take the risk and you’ll be charged all the fees if the risk goes badly. Whereas when you deposit in branch and a human can see with certainty what the date is, they have the option of saying “screw it, we don’t want to deal with you or them if this goes sideways.” I guess this is what my original question boils down to; why would a bank even allow such a scenario to occur in the first place? With the maze of rules, regulations and tedious ‘policies’ that banks drape themselves in, the existence of such a risk seems out of character. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/24 "2013-05-28T03:17:21Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > You were referring to having $200 immediately available but nothing when you see a teller. That available money is a function of using an ATM- Giving you access to some of the money until they verify the contents. That’s “conspiracy” that was being referred to that I was addressing. That was an aside to the main point of the OP. I’m quite familiar with the upfront “honor system” money given by ATMs when depositing a check. I was just including it in my OP to characterize, along with the _next_-day availability of all of the check, the stark difference between ATM cashing and in person cashing of post-dated checks (at least at my bank). ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/25 "2013-05-28T03:21:34Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > That was an aside to the main point of the OP. I’m quite familiar with the upfront “honor system” money given by ATMs when depositing a check. I was just including it in my OP to characterize, along with the _next_-day availability of all of the check, the stark difference between ATM cashing and in person cashing of post-dated checks (at least at my bank). Whatever. You were the one reacting strongly to a very good explanation that used the phrase “conspiring to break a rule with the ATM” as if you were being accused. I was merely trying to explain the poster’s turn of a phrase, since you seemed to be taking it literally. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/26 "2013-05-28T03:26:45Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Whatever. I don’t get it. Just answered your post. But whatever right backatcha. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/27 "2013-05-28T05:00:41Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I guess this is what my original question boils down to; why would a bank even allow such a scenario to occur in the first place? With the maze of rules, regulations and tedious ‘policies’ that banks drape themselves in, the existence of such a risk seems out of character. Because you depositing checks via ATM is much cheaper than you depositing checks via a teller. The former can really only be done by accepting the greater risk (almost all of which is born by you, since if the check bounces they’ll take back the money if it is available and charge you fees to cover the hassle, and not them anyway) and the cheapness changes the outcome of the equation on whether the risk and operations hassle makes sense. Speaking as a generality since I have no idea what the specific reasons the bank in question might have. It may just be a stupid situation of one hand not knowing what the other is doing. That certainly happens too. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/28 "2013-05-28T05:38:16Z")
I apologize for the poor choice of word – “conspiracy” – if that seemed derogatory. Nevertheless, when you deposit a post-dated check by ATM you are knowingly violating a rule. I’m not sure which of the following is your real question: [ul][li] 1. Why is the ATM process allowed to break the rule?[/li][li] 2. Why won’t the teller break the rule for me?[/li][li] 3. Why are such inconsistencies allowed to develop?[/li][/ul] My answers are [ul][li] 1. I don’t know.[/li][li] 2. The rule is very logical. Surely you see that.[/li][li] 3. Welcome to the real world.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/29 "2013-05-28T13:30:08Z")
I’ve actually never had issues with cashing post-dated checks (with the check-writer’s permission) at a live teller, but I guess this varies from branch to branch. A bank doesn’t have to honor the date on the check in the US except in some specific circumstances. Most of the time, the date means jack shit and it’s just out of honor that the casher holds on to it. Anyhow, I don’t question the system, I just go straight to the ATM. Before I got a DBA, people would write checks to my business name, instead of my name (as specified in my letters and contracts to them.) Rather than bug them for a new check, I’ve always just dumped it into the ATM and never got one kicked back to me. Though I’ve never tried, I’m pretty sure a bank teller would not cash that, as the “Pay to” line is pretty important rather than the “Date” line, which is more like a memo in most cases. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/30 "2013-05-28T14:24:16Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Thanks all. This check is from a well-known, well-respected (and large) business entity. The post-marking has nothing to do with a scarcity of funds, I do know that. And it’s not so much that it’s causing any great inconvenience in my life, I just don’t get it. I rarely go inside the bank anyway, this is just one more reason to avoid doing so. How much inconvenience would be involved in arranging for the well-known, well-respected (and large) business entity to deposit the funds directly into your account? If it’s possible at all, that is. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/31 "2013-05-28T15:30:40Z")
- 3 (or wherever we are) on the direct deposit suggestion. Paper checks are soooooooo last century. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/32 "2013-05-28T16:25:50Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > How much inconvenience would be involved in arranging for the well-known, well-respected (and large) business entity to deposit the funds directly into your account? > > If it’s possible at all, that is. If it’s possible, then the well-known, well-respected business entity (the US government?) would simply deposit the funds on the correct date – let’s just say the 15th of each month. The OPer has been receiving the paper check several days prior to that payment date, and wants access to the money on the day he cashes the check, not the day the check is dated. Direct deposit would be completely inflexible. IMO, the OPer shouldn’t complain at all. Banks aren’t in the business of offering free loans, even for just a few days. If he wants his money early, he should get a payday loan. Well, no, actually he shouldn’t do that, but you get my point. Ambivalid has discovered a loophole (the ATM), and should be happy that he has access to a few hundred bucks before the date of the check, instead of complaining that the bank won’t participate in his scheme. It’s neither the issuer’s fault nor the bank’s fault that the OPer routinely comes up short every month. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/33 "2013-05-28T16:55:33Z")
So your bank sometimes honors checks that it has no obligation to - and you’re pissed about the times it doesn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/34 "2013-05-28T17:04:16Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > It’s neither the issuer’s fault nor the bank’s fault that the OPer routinely comes up short every month. Please read the OP. I don’t “routinely come up short every month”. I believe I said “every once in a while” or some close approximation. And like I’ve said more than once, I was more just curious at the discrepancy between the in-person transaction and the ATM version. But my curiosity has since been sated. ETA: And no, it’s not “the government” sending the checks. Good guess tho. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/35 "2013-05-28T17:05:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So your bank sometimes honors checks that it has no obligation to - and you’re pissed about the times it doesn’t? No, it _always_ does via ATM and it _never_ does via in-person transaction. I just wanted to know why. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/36 "2013-05-28T17:13:07Z")
No, you wanted to rant. If you wanted to know why you would have posted this in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/37 "2013-05-28T17:20:41Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Ambivalid has discovered a loophole (the ATM), and should be happy that he has access to a few hundred bucks before the date of the check, instead of complaining that the bank won’t participate in his scheme. It’s not really a loophole or a scheme. Unless the bank has been notified beforehand, the date on the check means nothing. From Wikipedia, which agrees with what I’ve researched on this the last time post-dated checks came up on this board: > [@](#): > > In the United States, national banks are permitted to pay checks even though payment occurs prior to the date of the check. According to the Comptroller of the Currency: “A check is a negotiable instrument—the payee, the person to whom the check is written, may negotiate it through the banking system at any time”.[4] Nonetheless, if the bank has been given proper notice of the post-dating, the Uniform Commercial Code requires that the notice be honored, or the bank be held liable for damages.[5] They may have an internal policy not to honoro post-dated checks, I suppose. But, simply post-dating a check does not mean a bank can’t or won’t cash it until the date the date written on the check. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/38 "2013-05-28T17:23:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, you wanted to rant. If you wanted to know why you would have posted this in GQ. Perhaps I _should_ have posted it there. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/39 "2013-05-28T17:47:14Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > First of all, I’m not conspiring to break any rule. I’m just depositing a check and finding the balance available the next day. I am puzzled as to why the teller inside is unable to provide me with any funds from the check until the date stamped on the check. In person, they can give you the check back and say “bank rules”, can’t do that with an ATM. When you drop a check off at the ATM, you are placing your personal property, a financial instrument, in the care of the bank. They cannot return this property to you, nor can they get your approval to change the disposition of the property, without going through a big goat rodeo. They don’t know if you’re across the street having lunch, or on a plane to Lisbon. They don’t know if a refusal to deposit would send you over to a check cashing place for quick money, or get you a new check cut with a correct date, or “I’ll come back in 3 days.” They could refuse the deposit, take the money out of your account and mail you the check back. Wow, is that customer going to be hella-pissed, may as well send out the “Account Closure” forms along with the check, just to keep things tidy. Seems like it would be a lot easier to just credit the deposit. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503/40 "2013-05-28T18:00:13Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Please read the OP. I don’t “routinely come up short every month”. I believe I said “every once in a while” or some close approximation. Most people who come up short every once in a while don’t ever have the option of depositing a check early, because their check is either direct deposited or not sent 4 days too early. Consider yourself lucky that this archaic paper method is still used by this entity so that you can access the funds for a few days, to cover your shortfall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-bank-lies-i-say-lies/659503.md?page=3)