# What the fuck, Beaten Man? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2002, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691 "2002-11-20T03:41:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/41 "2002-11-20T18:45:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _OP by Biggirl_ **If you are at work then it is unacceptable for anyone to cry unless broken bones or death is involved** Um. The only time I ever cried at work neither of these things were involved. Just a whole bunch of adrenaline (the fight-or-flight kind) that had no other outlet. JFTR, of course. YMMV. And I’ve seen my father cry four times: Once when their dog Spice died Once when my rat Junior died, and we were burying him Once when he hit a raccoon with the car while we were on vacation Once when he was going into the operating room for open-heart surgery. I wasn’t there when his mom died, so I don’t know if he cried then; but my guess is he did. And, well, that’s that, I guess. Don’t men “feminize” other men by calling them “pussy” all the time, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/42 "2002-11-20T19:28:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*If you’re going to tell me those men were wimps, I’d have to kick your ass. Seriously. \*\* A) I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t presume to tell someone that there’s an appropriate way to grieve or judge their manliness on that basis. But I want the same treatment in return. Don’t tell me “Let it out…go on…cry. You’ll feel better.” Trust me: I won’t. What’ll happen is that I’ll feel physically bad as well as emotionally bad. People grieve differently. I’m not gonna go out and shoot up a building because I don’t sob. B) I will stand by the statement that, however stupid it may be, it is a fact that there _are_ negative consequences for a guy to cry in public our society. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/43 "2002-11-20T19:33:03Z")
Depends on the company you’re surrounded by, Fenris. If you’re surrounded by a gaggle of women, there might not be negative consequences. If you’re surrounded by a bevy of beefy dockworkers, there might be very negative consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/44 "2002-11-20T19:52:02Z")
Since we’re generalizing anyway, I feel safe in posting this. I think some of you are focusing on the wrong points here. I cried when my grandmother died. Quietly, with my mother. I cried when my father was diagnosed with prostate cancer, and had no other option besides prostate-removal surgery, and it might have already metastasized (he’s apparently fine, now, BTW, but I was really scared for a while). Quietly, by myself. I object to the idea that it is okay for grown men to cry in public over the slightest provocation (i.e. “That bad man was MEAN to me.”) It’s just not a natural reaction for me, or any of the guys I know personally. If I am the victim of a personal transgression I get indignant or angry. If I suffer and emotional blow I express regret or sorrow. It never _occurs_ to me to cry. I thing it’s wrong to indoctrinate little boys into an “it’s okay for men to cry like girls do” mindset, when it’s not really their natural inclination. When you see a little boy with tears running down his red little face, he is _really_ angry, not “crying.” Trust me on this. Generalizing again, adult men and women do react differently, emotionally and physiologically, to the same stimuli. The same applies to children, and we need to recognize that to have a worthwhile discussion. It boils down to the “males and females are equal, therefore we must be identical” fallacy. Men and women are equal in worth, but equality is not the same thing as identity. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/45 "2002-11-20T19:54:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Fenris \* > **And given that the headline I was objecting to (that [b}Vanilla** posted )was “Big Boys Don’t Cry-They Just Kill themselves.” was ALSO hyperbole, (many men who don’t cry also don’t kill themselves.) it behoves the elementary reader to read the phrase in context._\* I see. So the thing you found so objectionable was the exaggeration in the article’s title. Not at all like the title of… well, pretty much every thread you’ve ever started, right? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/46 "2002-11-20T20:03:03Z")
Next, my child, let us examine the difference between a newspaper headline (the magic part of “newspaper” is “news”! 🙂 )and a thread title that deals in anecdotes, humor, rage, joy…in other words “not news”. If I observe that apparently you were dropped on your head repeatedly as a child and that’s the cause of your reading difficulties and you cry, rest assured that I won’t question your right to do so. Fenris, who notes that _no_ other person in the thread has had problems understanding what I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/47 "2002-11-20T20:05:48Z")
Fenris, you know I respect the livin’ heck out of ya, but geez - you don’t have to talk down to people (“my child”). You’re much better than that. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/48 "2002-11-20T20:16:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > Fenris, who notes that _no_ other person in the thread has had problems understanding what I wrote. Two minor quibbles. 1. That nobody else _said_ they had no trouble understanding what you wrote doesn’t mean that’s the case. 2. Some of us understand what you said and disagree with you:) ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/49 "2002-11-20T20:20:25Z")
I gotta go with my pal **Fenris** on this one. A man crying in public, for the most part, is still frowned upon. Clearly, only the stoniest heart would scorn a man who lets fall a manly tear at a funeral, so you may unruffle your feathers, **Guinastasia**. But let us compare the circumstnaces for men and women. **During an argument.** Women can argue, cry, and make up with each other. A man who wept during an argument (or worse) a fight would be derided for being weak and unmanly. **At the movies**. Women can air their emotions by going to a 3-handkerchief weeper. Men also cry at movies, but they do not advertise the fact. I don’t think a man alive could keep his eyes dry at the end of **Field of Dreams** , for example, yet to be caught crying at a movie by anyone other than your SO is to admit weakness and vulnerability. I am NOT arguing that this is right, but I am saying that this is so. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/50 "2002-11-20T20:20:46Z")
**Fenris** , you must accept my apologies, for I was unaware that the newspapers in Colorado contain no editorials, opinion pieces, or letters to the editor. You see, where I come from, newspaper headlines take a number of different forms, and even with my poor reading comprehension skills I can tell the difference between the dry, factual kind - _Area Man Wastes Life Posting Song Parodies on Message Board_ - and the flashy, emotional, eye-catching ones - _This Guy can Dish it Out, But He Sure Can’t Take It!!!_ I beg your Royal Smartassitude’s indulgence. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/51 "2002-11-20T20:25:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*If I had a girlfriend and she said she loved me, you bet your ass I’d cry about it. That’s a touching thing to say. Society doesn’t like it? Tough shit. 🙂 \*\* Me too! If I had a girlfriend, and she said she loved **dantheman** , I would cry like a baby, too. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/52 "2002-11-20T20:27:15Z")
\*\* cuauhtemoc \*\*: Care to declare a truce? Looking back on this thread, this seems a remarkably silly thing to be flaming each other over. I apologize for my smartassitude. Ok? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/53 "2002-11-20T20:31:11Z")
**Fenris** , you are one of my favorite posters here, seriously. It’s all in fun. Truce. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/54 "2002-11-20T20:35:16Z")
C’mon, **gobear** , it’s okay at some movies. You cried at the end of _Brian’s Song_, didn’t you? I did. I mean James Cann was so… so… damned _brave_ about the whole dying-of-cancer thing. 😭 WHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!! There, I cried. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/55 "2002-11-20T20:37:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by gobear \* > **At the movies**. Women can air their emotions by going to a 3-handkerchief weeper. Men also cry at movies, but they do not advertise the fact. I don’t think a man alive could keep his eyes dry at the end of **Field of Dreams** , for example, yet to be caught crying at a movie by anyone other than your SO is to admit weakness and vulnerability._\* I disagree (for I had forgotten this until I saw your post, gobear). The theater I saw STII:WoK in was filled with, mostly, men. A large number of those men wept when Spock died. (As in, purt near the whole theater was in tears, Dad included. Mom was an exception, but then, she is not male.) One guy, in fact, was so messed up about it that, well, he was right behind me and let’s say that he was pretty loud. Similarly, IIRC there were many wet (male) eyes at the end of (of all things) Deep Impact. None of these men were mocked for this. (Except my father, but that’s because Mom can be exceptionally bitchy about some things.) ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/56 "2002-11-20T20:40:24Z")
Shodan -😉 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/57 "2002-11-20T20:45:47Z")
Oddly enough, neither ST:II nor Deep Impact made me cry–OTOH, I sniveled like a baby at Schindler’s List. And, yes, **Brian’s Song** is a nopenalty weeping zone, but only the original, not the sappy remake. Interestingly, the contemporary American view that weeping in inherently unmanly is contradicted by the behavior of ancient heroes. In both the Iliad and the Odyssey, Homer depicts his manly characters, like Achilles and Odysseus, as moved to tears by strong emotions. In the Old Norse sagas, one finds Viking warriors weeping over the deaths of their comrades. And, of course, the shortest verse in the Bible is “Jesus wept.” Pussy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/58 "2002-11-20T20:47:41Z")
> [@](#): > > The theater I saw STII:WoK in was filled with, mostly, men. A large number of those men wept when Spock died. (As in, purt near the whole theater was in tears, Dad included. Mom was an exception, but then, she is not male.) One guy, in fact, was so messed up about it that, well, he was right behind me and let’s say that he was pretty loud. Well, sure, but that’s because Star Trek fans are a bunch of pussies. They’d cry at anything, the losers. Of course, even the burliest manly man wept openly when Han Solo was put into carbonite. I mean, who wouldn’t? \ Poor Han. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/59 "2002-11-20T21:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*And, of course, the shortest verse in the Bible is “Jesus wept.” > \*\* Wanna bet? I can beat that by two letters: Fiat Lux I mean, you can quibble that it’s not a verse, but it _should_ be. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691/60 "2002-11-20T21:24:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*A) I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t presume to tell someone that there’s an appropriate way to grieve or judge their manliness on that basis. > > But I want the same treatment in return. Don’t tell me “Let it out…go on…cry. You’ll feel better.” Trust me: I won’t. What’ll happen is that I’ll feel physically bad as well as emotionally bad. People grieve differently. I’m not gonna go out and shoot up a building because I don’t sob. > > B) I will stand by the statement that, however stupid it may be, it is a fact that there _are_ negative consequences for a guy to cry in public our society. > > Fenris \*\* All right then, and I agree with you. If you don’t cry naturally, then don’t. People deal with grief in different ways. If crying isn’t your natural response, then, hey-no problem. I’m just saying if you see someone STARTING to cry, don’t tell them to repress it. That’s all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-beaten-man/137691.md?page=4)