# What the fuck is going on at the New York Times?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 4, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038 "2020-06-04T12:21:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/221 "2020-06-07T22:08:07Z")
> [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > It does, **Bear**. It really does. Whatever you think of Cotton’s editorial, it is a controversial opinion. …“controversial opinion” are your characterization of the article, not mine. You’ve literally put words in my mouth then claimed that “I said something” that I didn’t. > [@](#): > > Your definition of propaganda that you posted here is meaningless. Just . . . meaningless. You’re making up new definitions of words to suit your purpose. I literally cited a definition of propaganda. It isn’t a new definition: its the accepted definition. > [@](#): > > If you get all hot and bothered about what a sitting US senator says and then at the NYT for having the gall to print it, it’s no longer an editorial, is it? It’s propaganda. This is what intellectual dishonesty is all about, and it’s one of the more obvious ploys. That editorial failed the normal editorial standards and shouldn’t have been published, and as a result of all of this Bennet is gone and the whole department is getting restructured. The New York Times became a mouthpiece for the administration. Thats a failure. > [@](#): > > No you didn’t. You wrote their names in a post. “Cite” means that you also tell us what they said, or at least, you know, _cite_ the articles that they wrote so that we can see them? One of the definitions of [cite](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cite)is “to quote by way of example, authority, or proof”, and the example given by the Merriam Webster is “cites several noteworthy authors”, which was exactly what I did. > [@](#): > > Thank you for your incorrect, uninformed opinion. There was nothing incorrect about what I wrote. > [@](#): > > Huh . . . well, chalk one up for journalistic integrity. The NYT folds to popular opinion yet again. I think I’m going to clutch my heart and collapse from lack of shock. This has nothing to do with “popular opinion.” They pitched the article. The article failed their editorial standards, it wasn’t read by the chief editor of the editorial page prior to publication, this isn’t the first time that Bennett had fucked up. > [@](#): > > I actually don’t think you’re a liar, **Bear**. I think you’re stupid to the point of actually figuring out a way to turn it into a defense mechanism so that you don’t actually have to think about what you post, but I really do think you believe this shit. At least I’m not a liar. > [@](#): > > Just a quick tip from me to you? Have you tried . . . knowing what the fuck you’re talking about? I find that works wonders in debates. Give me a fucking break. You’ve had to resort to either ignoring what I’ve written or lying about it. I know what I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/222 "2020-06-07T22:14:44Z")
Bennet just resigned. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/223 "2020-06-07T22:20:08Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > except unlike you, I’m not losing my temper. I’m merely expressing myself in a way that you seem to dislike. I’d hate to see what you’re like when you _do_ lose your temper. > [@Banquet Bear](#): > > I think you are projecting. I’m not projecting. Two other people in this thread alone have explicitly said the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/224 "2020-06-08T12:56:00Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I understand that argument - I just don’t buy it. > > Rebuttals were inevitable - that was never in doubt. **Some ideas are harmful and shouldn’t be amplified, especially when they come in the form of political propaganda**. And let’s just cut the crap: **this wasn’t an opinion piece, it was right wing authoritarian propaganda**. Cotton wasn’t trying to win a debate; he was **trying to amplify Trump’s authoritarian message** , and it’s dangerous as hell. I agree. This was fascist shit spewed by a raging asshole who should keep quiet. The Times, like every other so called “news”, decides on a constant basis, what to publish or not publish. They could have and should have decided to not give that asshole yet another megaphone. “News” papers, “news” TV, cable “news”, and social media )and I use the word “news” very loosely) have given these Republican right wing theocratic fascistic lying creeps far to much leeway. When they “interview” they lob slow fat softball questions. They feed into the lies or ignore them. Or PEDDLE them. They don’t even bother to fact check or distribute an REAL rebuttals. All along since the day Trump announced he was running for President, they have given him and his flunkies free coverage, “editorialized” his alibis for him and them, and spread the lies. Damn right they could and should refuse to spread that garbage. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/225 "2020-06-09T01:28:06Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I understand that argument - I just don’t buy it. > > Rebuttals were inevitable - that was never in doubt. Some ideas are harmful and shouldn’t be amplified, especially when they come in the form of political propaganda. And let’s just cut the crap: this wasn’t an opinion piece, it was right wing authoritarian propaganda. Cotton wasn’t trying to win a debate; he was trying to amplify Trump’s authoritarian message, and it’s dangerous as hell. _Some ideas are harmful and shouldn’t be amplified, especially when they come in the form of political propaganda_ And it’s up to you to decide what gets amplified and what doesn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/226 "2020-06-09T02:30:55Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > _Some ideas are harmful and shouldn’t be amplified, especially when they come in the form of political propaganda_ > > And it’s up to you to decide what gets amplified and what doesn’t? As opposed to letting the fascists do so? Because that’s what being “neutral” is; _lying and deceiving_ in order to support the fascists. And if they win, they certainly aren’t going to engage in any hand-ringing over the morality of suppressing their opponents. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/227 "2020-06-09T03:10:58Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > And it’s up to you to decide what gets amplified and what doesn’t? I’m not a New York Times editor, so it’s not up to me, but as a citizen, it’s absolutely up to me to be vocal about which messages should be amplified, and which ones shouldn’t be. And it’s up to me and others to condemn the Times when they amplify messages that are harmful. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/228 "2020-06-09T10:01:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As opposed to letting the fascists do so? Because that’s what being “neutral” is; _lying and deceiving_ in order to support the fascists. And if they win, they certainly aren’t going to engage in any hand-ringing over the morality of suppressing their opponents. Tom Cotton literally wants to send in the military to suppress free speech in this country. Should I feel bad for him if his speech is not amplified? I’m playing the world’s tiniest violin in sympathy. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/229 "2020-06-09T13:20:35Z")
> [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > Wow, great comeback, **asahi**. So, people are supposed to take your side seriously . . . because? > > This is why you’ve lost. This is why you’re losing. This is why you will continue to lose. Just remember, my man, that _you’re_ the one getting worked up about this. Just you. _I’m_ certainly not going to get worked up, because . . . gasp . . . you don’t like me! > > Your opponents are playing you like a cheap online poker game. And the worst part is that they get to sit back and laugh. The only one working hard here is you. They’re laughing at you. You’re _hilarious_, dude. And the more they feed you, the harder you bite down on the bait. If any of this is true, it’s because you’re an amoral asshole, not a witty opponent. Your tactics are the verbal equivalent of the George Floyd challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/230 "2020-06-09T14:10:40Z")
> [@margin](#): > > If any of this is true, it’s because you’re an amoral asshole, not a witty opponent. Your tactics are the verbal equivalent of the George Floyd challenge. **margin** , welcome back!! I was starting to worry. And hey, your opinion is your opinion . . . but you’re still losing, right? Maybe if you put as much thought into how to actually solve the problems as you do in how the people who create the problems are horrible, horrible creatures, you might stand a better shot in November. Even if it _is_ November 2024. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/231 "2020-06-09T14:40:14Z")
> [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > **margin** , welcome back!! I was starting to worry. > > And hey, your opinion is your opinion . . . but you’re still losing, right? > > Maybe if you put as much thought into how to actually solve the problems as you do in how the people who create the problems are horrible, horrible creatures, you might stand a better shot in November. Even if it _is_ November 2024. Do you think you’re winning? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/232 "2020-06-09T14:40:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As opposed to letting the fascists do so? Because that’s what being “neutral” is; _lying and deceiving_ in order to support the fascists. And if they win, they certainly aren’t going to engage in any hand-ringing over the morality of suppressing their opponents. It’s all part of that “fair and balanced” bullshit. Yes, it’s bullshit, but you and I know that. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/233 "2020-06-09T14:44:20Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Tom Cotton literally wants to send in the military to suppress free speech in this country. Should I feel bad for him if his speech is not amplified? I’m playing the world’s tiniest violin in sympathy. :rolleyes: His words mark him as an authoritarian and a fascist. He is saying The People of this country are The Enemy and should be crushed. Fuck him. He should see ALL his goals and his career destroyed, permanently. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/234 "2020-06-09T14:49:37Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > His words mark him as an authoritarian and a fascist. He is saying The People of this country are The Enemy and should be crushed. > > Fuck him. He should see ALL his goals and his career destroyed, permanently. To the extent that those views have been more widely revealed by the NYT Op-ed, do you still think he should have been denied the opportunity to air them and face subsequent publicized opprobrium? Net-net, has this led to a largely positive or largely negative outcome for Cotton and his views? ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/235 "2020-06-09T14:50:54Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Do you think you’re winning? No. I think we’re losing. I think we’re stupid, distracted, unrealistic idiots without a real plan or a real candidate for 2020. I think we are intellectually dishonest, short-sighted reactionaries who can’t see the train until it’s three inches in front of our face. I think our debating skills are weak and that our focus is weaker. I think we have consistently mischaracterized and underestimated our enemies and disowned our allies over petty, nitpicking semantics and intellectual differences. I think we have muddled the difference between easily identifiable issues that we could come together and work on for short-term results with systematic problems which have plagued this nation since its inception and will take years if not decades of concentrated effort to root out and have no realistic short-term solution. I think we have given ourselves up to sophistry, hyperbole, and emotion over reason, and I think that this has cost us whatever chances we had (and we _did_ have them), to beat the bad guys. I think we have played into our opponents’ hands, taken their bait, let them frame the issues while we react instead of respond, danced to their music, and squandered our chance to make any sort of difference in 2020. The problem with that, **Chingon** , is that I’m a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/236 "2020-06-09T15:03:57Z")
I noted the convenient switch of pronouns. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/237 "2020-06-09T15:05:57Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > I noted the convenient switch of pronouns. Good, you’ve proofread it. Step two is reading for comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/238 "2020-06-09T18:15:05Z")
> [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > Maybe if you put as much thought into how to actually solve the problems as you do in how the people who create the problems are horrible, horrible creatures, you might stand a better shot in November. Even if it _is_ November 2024. Hardly; that’s how Hillary lost. Too much focus on how to solve problems, not much focus on treating the Republicans like the implacable and utterly unprincipled enemies of humanity and the American people that they are. Or on how corrupt and broken the system is. The Democrats keep trying to play chess against an axe murderer and getting an axe to the face for their troubles. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/239 "2020-06-09T18:49:52Z")
> [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > No. I think we’re losing. I think we’re stupid, distracted, unrealistic idiots without a real plan or a real candidate for 2020. I think we are intellectually dishonest, short-sighted reactionaries who can’t see the train until it’s three inches in front of our face. I think our debating skills are weak and that our focus is weaker. I think we have consistently mischaracterized and underestimated our enemies and disowned our allies over petty, nitpicking semantics and intellectual differences. I think we have muddled the difference between easily identifiable issues that we could come together and work on for short-term results with systematic problems which have plagued this nation since its inception and will take years if not decades of concentrated effort to root out and have no realistic short-term solution. I think we have given ourselves up to sophistry, hyperbole, and emotion over reason, and I think that this has cost us whatever chances we had (and we _did_ have them), to beat the bad guys. > > I think we have played into our opponents’ hands, taken their bait, let them frame the issues while we react instead of respond, danced to their music, and squandered our chance to make any sort of difference in 2020. > > The problem with that, **Chingon** , is that I’m a Democrat. If we were playing SimCity, your posts might actually have a fucking point. But this is reality, and the reality is that your posts remind me of a passenger clutching a barf bag during turbulence. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038/240 "2020-06-09T19:12:37Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > If we were playing SimCity, your posts might actually have a fucking point. > > But this is reality, and the reality is that your posts remind me of a passenger clutching a barf bag during turbulence. Actually, this is a message board, pretty much the opposite of reality, but knock yourself out, and perhaps you’ve been concentrating on Trump, but Biden kind of sucks too, and yes, I’m a passenger clutching a barf bag during turbulence . . . over the middle of the Pacific Ocean with three engines on fire and the fourth engine making the good ol’ community college try. What you seem to be missing, **Chingon** , is that Bernie’s campaign has serious problems. It’s not going to be even close to a shoo-in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-going-on-at-the-new-york-times/855038.md?page=13)