# What the fuck is wrong with Mexico? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2010, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615 "2010-12-18T08:49:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/201 "2010-12-29T20:10:55Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Those vast tracts of land had hardly any Mexicans living in them. Most of the inhabitants were Indian tribes who didn’t recognize or accept the authority of the Mexican government. If we stole anything, and remember that the right of conquest was still recognized in those days, we stole it from those Indian tribes, not from Mexico. What’s more, the United States took the unusual step of paying Mexico millions of dollars to relinquish any claim to what is now the southwestern United States. > > Operation Wetback was entirely legal, and entirely moral. We have every right to round up illegal aliens and deport them. And as I noted in my earlier post, Mexico is not the least bit reluctant to track down illegal aliens and get rid of them, so frankly you have a hell of a lot of gall to complain when we do it. > > And considering what a mess you’ve made of Mexico, why do you assume you would have done any better with California? Right of conquest? Who gave you that right? Oh, that’s correct. God did. I see you still accept the racist policies and philosphical justification as morally superior beings of your fore bearers. Like I posted in an earlier thread, the more things change, the more they remain the same. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/202 "2010-12-29T20:25:28Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Right of conquest? Who gave you that right? Oh, that’s correct. God did. I see you still accept the racist policies and philosphical justification as morally superior beings of your fore bearers. Like I posted in an earlier thread, the more things change, the more they remain the same. [International law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_conquest) gave us that right. My “racist policies and philosophical justification” is that I want Anglo-American civilization to keep its homeland in North America. And that homeland includes the southwestern United States. If that’s racism, I merrily plead guilty to the charge. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/203 "2010-12-29T21:11:34Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > [International law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_conquest) gave us that right. My “racist policies and philosophical justification” is that I want Anglo-American civilization to keep its homeland in North America. And that homeland includes the southwestern United States. > > If that’s racism, I merrily plead guilty to the charge. That didn’t give countries the right to invade others but simply to keep territories conquered during a war. Your war was blatant imperialism justified by American’s beliefs of racial superiority. Those beliefs are still abundantly held as evident in this thread. When will the “clean people” arrive to save us from ourselves? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/204 "2010-12-29T21:26:31Z")
So **LonesomePolecat** , just curious. do you believe Japan and Germany’s conquests in WW2 were okay? Why or why not? ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/205 "2010-12-29T21:29:07Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Operation Wetback was entirely legal, and entirely moral. We have every right to round up illegal aliens and deport them. The name, amigo, the name¡ What kind of man would use an ethnic slur in the name of an official government operation? Let alone the very President. That just went right by you didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/206 "2010-12-29T21:32:19Z")
Here’s another little gem you’ll probably be proud of: [http://www.voltairenet.org/article30264.html](http://www.voltairenet.org/article30264.html) _The Greaser Act (an anti-Mexican law) was formally enacted “to protect honest people from the excesses of vagabonds.” That law allowed the police to arrest, using force if is necessary, and to deport or send to forced labor any person suspected of being a vagabond. According to that law, a vagabond is a person identified by the term “Greaser” (pejorative for Mexican) and, generally, all people of Spanish or Indian blood.” The law authorized local militias to impose terror against the Mexican community, to confiscate their property and to lynch any recalcitrant individuals with impunity._ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/207 "2010-12-29T21:34:28Z")
Also **LonesomePolecat** how do you feel about most the weapons used in drug lord crimes being American in origin? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/208 "2010-12-29T23:09:31Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > The name, amigo, the name¡ What kind of man would use an ethnic slur in the name of an official government operation? Let alone the very President. > > That just went right by you didn’t it? No, it didn’t. I just don’t care. You sit there at your keyboard spewing venom at the gringos, and you’ve got the gall to complain about racism? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/209 "2010-12-29T23:12:29Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > No, it didn’t. I just don’t care. > > You sit there at your keyboard spewing venom at the gringos, and you’ve got the gall to complain about racism? Since when the fuck is American a race? ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/210 "2010-12-29T23:40:07Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > No, it didn’t. I just don’t care. > > You sit there at your keyboard spewing venom at the gringos, and you’ve got the gall to complain about racism? I have not said one racist thing in any of my posts. What venom? That you are the world’s largest consumer of illegal drugs but refuse to take any responsibilty for the problems that causes in other parts of the world? Beccause I point out the truth about the historical relationship between our countries? The only venom I see here is directed at me or my country. I’m still waiting to see the “clean people” arrive and how us dirty Mesicans how to live. That type of statement has been coming from Americans for 200 years. When will you run out of venom? There are comments on this thread that are nearly identically to the disgusting statements made when you decided we were unworthy occupants of our property in 1848. History is this case isn’t repeating itself, it hasn’t changed any at all. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/211 "2010-12-29T23:47:37Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So **LonesomePolecat** , just curious. do you believe Japan and Germany’s conquests in WW2 were okay? Why or why not? On a personal level, no. However, international law was already in transition by the time WWII broke out, so the legality of the Axis conquests would have been seriously in question if the Axis had not been defeated. (Not that they gave much of a damn about legality.) Yes, we conquered what is now the southwestern United States, and the land was ceded to us in the peace treaty, which according to international law made the land ours. By the standards of the day, this was entirely acceptable. Moreover, the land has belonged to us much longer than it belonged to Mexico, and we have made a huge investment in infrastructure there. America has a far stronger claim to that land than Mexico ever had. You and CB are guilty of retroactive morality here, TR. If you took a map of the world and set your finger down at random on some land mass, the odds are that the people living there today took the land away from someone else at some time in the past. Using your moral logic, there would not be a people anywhere in the world who have any right to the land on which they live. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/212 "2010-12-30T00:01:30Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Here’s another little gem you’ll probably be proud of: > > [http://www.voltairenet.org/article30264.html](http://www.voltairenet.org/article30264.html) > > _The Greaser Act (an anti-Mexican law) was formally enacted “to protect honest people from the excesses of vagabonds.” That law allowed the police to arrest, using force if is necessary, and to deport or send to forced labor any person suspected of being a vagabond. According to that law, a vagabond is a person identified by the term “Greaser” (pejorative for Mexican) and, generally, all people of Spanish or Indian blood.” The law authorized local militias to impose terror against the Mexican community, to confiscate their property and to lynch any recalcitrant individuals with impunity._ Boo fucking hoo. Ever heard of [the Plan of San Diego](http://www.vdare.com/sailer/060129_sandiego.htm)? " > [@](#): > > In January 1915, authorities arrested a man near the border who carried a copy of a revolutionary manifesto. It called for a Tejano armed uprising to reclaim much of the Southwest for Mexico. **It also called for Anglo males over age 16 to be killed.** (Emphasis added) If most Mexicans hate gringos as much as you do, why should we want to share our country with you? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/213 "2010-12-30T00:04:31Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > I have not said one racist thing in any of my posts. You’re saying you don’t hate gringos? Seriously? You really believe there isn’t any hatred in your posts? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/214 "2010-12-30T00:13:21Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Also **LonesomePolecat** how do you feel about most the weapons used in drug lord crimes being American in origin? [It’s a lie.](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/myth-percent-small-fraction-guns-mexico-come/) ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/215 "2010-12-30T00:24:08Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Boo fucking hoo. Ever heard of [the Plan of San Diego](http://www.vdare.com/sailer/060129_sandiego.htm)? > > " (Emphasis added) > > If most Mexicans hate gringos as much as you do, why should we want to share our country with you? In the first place you linked to an obviously racist site. No surprise there. Then you try to equate a radical fringe group with legislated racial discrimination in your country. If you are interested in the truth, which is highly doubtful, research how many lynchings of Mexicans have occured in the USA. And in the past few years we have seen a sniper in San Diego kill a young boy from Mexico at the border and recieve just 2 years in jail. A young life ended solely because he was Mexican. There was also a case in the eastern part of the USA where several American teenagers beat a young Mexican to death solely becasue of his nationality. The local courts gave them an equally light sentence. meanwhile the football player who was convicted of cruelty to dogs was given a harsher sentence. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/216 "2010-12-30T00:51:33Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > You’re saying you don’t hate gringos? Seriously? You really believe there isn’t any hatred in your posts? :rolleyes: Lets clarify a few things. Hatred and racism are 2 distinct things. I hate the things some people do. I hate racism I don’t hate you. You aren’t worth my consideration. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/217 "2010-12-30T00:54:59Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > On a personal level, no. However, international law was already in transition by the time WWII broke out, so the legality of the Axis conquests would have been seriously in question if the Axis had not been defeated. (Not that they gave much of a damn about legality.) > > Yes, we conquered what is now the southwestern United States, and the land was ceded to us in the peace treaty, which according to international law made the land ours. By the standards of the day, this was entirely acceptable. Moreover, the land has belonged to us much longer than it belonged to Mexico, and we have made a huge investment in infrastructure there. America has a far stronger claim to that land than Mexico ever had. > > You and CB are guilty of retroactive morality here, TR. If you took a map of the world and set your finger down at random on some land mass, the odds are that the people living there today took the land away from someone else at some time in the past. Using your moral logic, there would not be a people anywhere in the world who have any right to the land on which they live. So what did the US do to people living on the land? Was there no ethnic cleansing? Relativism is not an excuse. Just out of curiosity, are you still claiming Americans are a race? ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/218 "2010-12-30T01:50:39Z")
Leaving aside the race issue… Why does Mexico have such staggering poverty, especially in rural areas? Why does Mexico lack basic human needs for many citizens, again especially in rural areas? Why are so many Mexicans undereducated? Why are so many Mexicans desperate to come to the US? You can’t honestly blame all of the above on the big bad neighbor to the north. And please, I’m not really interested in hearing how the US is lacking in XYZ - this thread is about Mexico, not the US. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/219 "2010-12-30T01:55:39Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So what did the US do to people living on the land? Was there no ethnic cleansing? Relativism is not an excuse. > > Just out of curiosity, are you still claiming Americans are a race? 80 - 90% of the people living in the Americas when the European’s showed up died of disease. The rest was typical human greed, and the Native Americans were not strong enough, organized enough, or sophisticated enough to fight back effectively. The European’s rarely negotiated in good faith either, but the biggest killer was disease. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/220 "2010-12-30T04:35:53Z")
I’m not going to re-read this entire thread and my question might have been asked and answered, without my noticing so don’t get on an old man’s ass if it has been. What impelled Mexicans to illegally cross that border for all the long years before the drug cartels were ever heard of? It’s been going on for all my remembered life, at least. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615.md?page=12)