# What The Gun Industry Thinks Women Want **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 23, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490 "2016-05-23T21:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/101 "2016-06-01T19:32:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > when you said “YOU” I thought you meant me. > > If that is not what you meant then no I did not get your point. So if it’s the latter, I can just say “whoosh—ooosh–ooosh-oooshooosh.” No need to discuss it. Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/102 "2016-06-02T06:33:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If you want ton investigate the effects of guns that look like toys and toys that look like guns on the rate at which children kill themselves or others, I won’t object. But so far I have not seen anything that indicates that there is any sort of connection between the two. Three deaths. One was the pink gun referenced upthread. The other two were toys that look like guns - Tamir Rice and [John Crawford](http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/08/police-shoot-man-holding-fake-gunnear-fa). This is reason enough for a responsible gun safety organization to investigate the matter and issue an advisory. Which, remember, is all I’m calling for. Bone apparently thinks the standard should be higher before you investigate the matter, at least in the firearm context. I’ll leave it to the reader to trace the implications of that. > [@Bone](#): > > And yet you didn’t reference anyone doing what you said. Convenient. The implication is that you can’t. Of course this is false. Post 26: > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Here’s a typical rah-rah gunnut claim: [indent]“The 4 rules of gun safety were put in place to ensure that no accidents happen. If these rules are followed 100% of the time, you can rest assured that you will never have an accident with your firearms.” [The 4 Rules Of Gun Safety | Concealed Nation](http://concealednation.org/2013/11/the-4-rules-of-gun-safety/) [/indent] Which of course is horseshit. It ignores ricochets. It ignores third parties. It ignores [guns exploding in hands](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=guns+explode+in+hands&t=ffsb&ia=web). It ignores secure storage of weaponry; implicitly third parties don’t exist in this world. Nor I suppose does alcohol or controlled substances. Most importantly, it ignores human error and -yes- the importance of layered defense. Check out the masthead Bone. It says Fighting Ignorance. I referenced the largest concealed carry gun website on the internet: I wasn’t nutpicking and this wasn’t a strawman. As I’ve said before, when gunnuts take extremist positions, I will continue to mock them. If you want to be taken seriously _stop wearing a clown nose._ > [@](#): > > I personally don’t think guns that I own should look like toys. There are however lots of toys that look like guns though - Nerf? If you think a Nerf gun looks like an actual gun, then… well you don’t, do you? > [@](#): > > Of course, what you think looks like a toy could be literally anything and that’s why those types of statements are meaningless. Noted. From the guy who claims he confuses Nerf guns with real ones. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/103 "2016-06-02T13:31:30Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Three deaths. One was the pink gun referenced upthread. The other two were toys that look like guns - Tamir Rice and [John Crawford](http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/08/police-shoot-man-holding-fake-gunnear-fa). This is reason enough for a responsible gun safety organization to investigate the matter and issue an advisory. Which, remember, is all I’m calling for. > > Bone apparently thinks the standard should be higher before you investigate the matter, at least in the firearm context. I’ll leave it to the reader to trace the implications of that. The implications of your goal post moving? First, you haven’t demonstrated that the pink gun referenced up thread was played with because it was pink. The gun was left where a 7 and 3 year old could access it. There is no evidence that the color influenced the outcome in that anecdote. For the other two, these were incidents where police killed two separate people holding airsoft guns. These weren’t young children as we have been talking about, but a older teen and a man. This was not a case of a child confusing a toy for a real gun and injuring themselves or someone else. And by all means, investigate away if you’d like. I repeat, the fact that you think I’ve stated a position that translates to calling for a higher standard before investigating reinforces my belief that you couldn’t state my position accurately if you tried. > [@](#): > > Of course this is false. Post 26: Check out the masthead Bone. It says Fighting Ignorance. I referenced the largest concealed carry gun website on the internet: I wasn’t nutpicking and this wasn’t a strawman. As I’ve said before, when gunnuts take extremist positions, I will continue to mock them. And this is why I continue to point out your penchant for strawmen. You’re pointing to a separate site, not anything that anyone has stated here. And even that, it’s about gun handling aimed at adults. That you misinterpret that to mean that they rule out gun safes or other locking devices for children is tortured reasoning. CSGV calls for people to antagonize gun carriers by calling the police on every carrier they see, [essentially swatting them](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423458/anti-gun-zealots-adopt-dangerous-tactic-antagonize-firearm-carriers-charles-c-w-cooke). Why don’t you defend that! Oh, no one said that (except one poster)? The Brady Campaign has [called the NRA terrorists](http://thehill.com/regulation/256924-gun-control-group-bashing-sanders-chafee). Why don’t you defend that!? It would be ridiculous to expect you to do so since you know, you didn’t state those positions. Unless someone here made that argument or is taking the position that you are referencing, that’s a strawman. Fighting ignorance indeed. > [@](#): > > If you think a Nerf gun looks like an actual gun, then… well you don’t, do you? > … > Noted. From the guy who claims he confuses Nerf guns with real ones. Look at these two sentences together - first is a question, the second you’ve already concluded. Did I claim that I confuse Nerf guns with real ones? Is your reading comprehension that poor? Have you used Nerf guns recently? I have because I have kids. When I held the latest Christmas gift for the first time you know what I thought? I thought wow, this has a similar placement and feel of my AR. It had a removable stock, mag release, pistol grip, and forward pistol grip. It even had optics. It [looked like this one,](http://nerf.hasbro.com/en-us/product/nerf-n-strike-modulus-ecs-10-blaster:C46E9123-5056-9047-F590-3DD3FF809D28) though not exact. I have no idea why a nerf gun needs a butt stock or optics, but it was mighty fun to use. I think Nerf adds features and ergonomics to resemble real guns. This could be intentional, or it could be that the shape and design are straightforward and essentially the best way to create such a product. I personally didn’t allow my kids to use them until they were old enough to understand playing make believe. At no time did I ever confuse Nerf guns with actual firearms. In any case, call for all the studies you want. You have _ **concerns** _, right? If I truly believed you supported the right to arms, and were actually concerned about the scourge or colored firearms, I might take you seriously. But since I don’t, then I don’t. This type of fake concern is transparent and worthless. Just another instance of anti-gun folks looking for ways to be outraged. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/104 "2016-06-03T06:34:26Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > In any case, call for all the studies you want. You have _ **concerns** _, right? If I truly believed you supported the right to arms, and were actually concerned about the scourge or colored firearms, I might take you seriously. But since I don’t, then I don’t. This type of fake concern is transparent and worthless. Just another instance of anti-gun folks looking for ways to be outraged. Setting aside your whining, I’ve been saying that responsible gun safety organizations should investigate and issue advisories on this issue. Why you think I don’t care about the deaths of children or adults due to guns that look like toys and toys that look like guns is unclear to me. At any rate I am heartened that you have retracted your demand for a cost benefit _prior_ to an investigation. As for outrage - pot kettle? Like I’ve said elsewhere Bone, you are way more invested in this issue than I am. As for the Nerf gun, anybody clicking the link can see that it’s visually very different than an actual gun. No cop would confuse them. I will continue to feel free to correct widespread gunnut myths. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/105 "2016-06-03T10:32:32Z")
Tamir Rice was 12. He was not “an older teen”. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/106 "2016-06-03T13:37:42Z")
> [@eulalia](#): > > Tamir Rice was 12. He was not “an older teen”. My mistake. Correction noted. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Setting aside your whining, I’ve been saying that responsible gun safety organizations should investigate and issue advisories on this issue. Why you think I don’t care about the deaths of children or adults due to guns that look like toys and toys that look like guns is unclear to me. You start off with the trite _‘won’t someone think of the children’_ concern, but fail to present any evidence whatsoever that supports that line of concern. At least **Kimstu** understood when to abandon a shitty argument. We were talking about young children confusing or being attracted to colored firearms and resulting unintentional injuries or death. You raised three examples, none of which fit this criteria. The first example at least the gun was colored. That’s about as far as you got since there is no indication that the color of the gun was significant. If you stopped there I could think, at least you tried. But no - The next two examples the firearm wasn’t colored, the people killed weren’t young children, and their deaths were not unintentional. In the case of John Crawford, the verbal account given to police was a lie, and in the case of Tamir Rice, police say they believed he was about to point his replica firearm at them. These two aren’t even close to the situation we’re talking about. Pointing out your massive goal post moving and fake concern isn’t whining - remember what you said about reading the masthead? You’re providing a target rich environment for what seems like a daily ritual of correcting you. > [@](#): > > As for outrage - pot kettle? Like I’ve said elsewhere Bone, you are way more invested in this issue than I am. I have no doubt I’m more interested in the issues than you are. But the rest of this is just abysmal reading comprehension. You really have no idea how to restate a position that someone has said. Because I never made the comparison as to relative interest levels. It’s like you have a warehouse full of straw and you can’t help leaving it everywhere you go. > [@](#): > > I will continue to feel free to correct widespread gunnut myths. Right. I expect you to keep bringing things up that somewhere, someone said something that you object to and you will continue to argue against those things, rather than what is actually said by the people you are responding to. Way to go! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/107 "2016-06-03T19:52:47Z")
> [@eulalia](#): > > Tamir Rice was 12. He was not “an older teen”. According to the Medical Examiner’s Office, Tamir E. Rice was a male, single, aged 12 years, of the Black race; had brown eyes, black hair, good teeth, was 67 inches (5 ft 7 in) in height, weighing 195 pounds; a native of Cleveland, Ohio. > **[READ Full Tamir Rice Autospy Report | PDF](https://www.scribd.com/doc/294170149/Tamir-Rice-Autopsy#fullscreen)** > > Scribd is the world's largest social reading and publishing site. 5 ft 7 and 195 lbs. He was a pretty big 12 yr old. I wonder how many people thought he was older when they first met him? ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/108 "2016-06-04T13:59:25Z")
I know some pretty big kids, so that doesn’t seem all that large to me. Then again, I’m not particularly afraid of big kids , black or white. I just wish people didn’t make toys that look like real guns and guns that look like toys. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/109 "2016-06-04T15:59:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > According to the Medical Examiner’s Office, Tamir E. Rice was a male, single, aged 12 years, of the Black race; had brown eyes, black hair, good teeth, was 67 inches (5 ft 7 in) in height, weighing 195 pounds; a native of Cleveland, Ohio. > > [Tamir Rice Autopsy | PDF](https://www.scribd.com/doc/294170149/Tamir-Rice-Autopsy#fullscreen) > > 5 ft 7 and 195 lbs. He was a pretty big 12 yr old. I wonder how many people thought he was older when they first met him? A 12-year-old who is 3 inches taller and 75 pounds heavier than me. What the fuck are we giving these kids nowadays? Flintstones’ vitamins with horse testosterone? ---
**Author:** ![Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cabin_fever_1/32/2908_2.png) [@Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabin_Fever_1)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/110 "2016-06-04T20:53:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I remember the exact moment when it was, not only OK, but actually very cool for a guy to wear a pink shirt. It was in the fall of 1968. And things were never the same. [Hijack] _I remember the exact moment when it was, not only OK, but actually very cool for a guy to wear a pink shirt. It was in the fall of 1968. And things were never the same again._ This sentence **really** needs to be submitted to the 2016 Bulwer-Lytton contest. I like it. We now return you to your original programming. [/Hijack\ ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/111 "2016-06-05T03:35:05Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > A 12-year-old who is 3 inches taller and 75 pounds heavier than me. What the fuck are we giving these kids nowadays? Flintstones’ vitamins with horse testosterone? A year later I reached my max of 5’-10.5". i’m shorter now. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/112 "2016-06-06T06:23:47Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > In any case, call for all the studies you want. You have _ **concerns** _, right? If I truly believed you supported the right to arms, and were actually concerned about the scourge or colored firearms, I might take you seriously. But since I don’t, then I don’t. This type of fake concern is transparent and worthless. Just another instance of anti-gun folks looking for ways to be outraged. You seem to think I’m concern trolling here… > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Why you think I don’t care about the deaths of children or adults due to guns that look like toys and toys that look like guns is unclear to me. … and I’m at a loss why. > [@Bone](#): > > You start off with the trite _‘won’t someone think of the children’_ concern, but fail to present any evidence whatsoever that supports that line of concern. Three deaths of guns confused for toys and visa versa is a concern that deserves investigation. It seems you are going back to demands for proof _before_ investigation occurs. This is pure extremism. Cops have to make split second decisions when they spot a firearm on the street. When toys look like real guns, this confuses matters. I don’t see how this is implausible and unworthy of investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/113 "2016-06-06T06:31:02Z")
Let’s pause for a moment. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > To be clear, I’m not calling for regulation. That was on page 2. I’m still not calling for regulation. I’m calling for responsible gun organizations to investigate and issue advisories. This is _incredibly_ unexceptional. This month’s Consumer Reports has these 3 headlines on the bottom of the cover: [ul] [li]Sprays that protect you from Zika[/li][li]Grilling Safety Do’s & Dont’s[/li][li]Car Infotainment Systems[/li][/ul] Two out of three are safety related. CR investigates and issues advisories and nobody bats an eye. No drama, no muss, no fuss. In the gun context, this is what Bone appears to be objecting to depending upon which post is involved. Cost/benefit analysis is a worthwhile activity. But you do that during an investigation. Not before. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490/114 "2016-06-06T18:01:21Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Cops have to make split second decisions when they spot a firearm on the street. When toys look like real guns, this confuses matters. I don’t see how this is implausible and unworthy of investigation. Because you’ve goal post shifted from bright colored guns appealing to young children who may play with them and mistake them for toys, to actual gun replicas held by non-young children and being shot by police. If you want to make an argument that replica guns shouldn’t exist because they could get confused by police, go right ahead. But to say that two of incidents of police believing a replica firearm support the idea that guns shouldn’t be brightly colored is not even close to being on point. \*\*Kimstu \*\*made claim that there are more child-related accidental firearms deaths now than there were 20 years ago. That claim was false. She also put forth the idea that having a brightly colored gun is a problem in itself because…think of the children. Of course, there is no evidence that this is true. Then you come in using irrelevant examples of police shooting non-young children while they were holding, not brightly colored replica firearms. Have you now given up this line of reasoning about brightly colored guns posing a risk to young children, and moved on to something else? And still, no evidence there is a problem. But hey, you’re not calling for regulation! You want to investigate! Go for it. See if you can find any evidence. Be sure to try and keep track of what you are looking for though - you’ve failed horribly to do so in this thread. Is it colored firearms marketed to women? Is it colored firearms as a risk to young children? Is it replica firearms for children? Is it replica firearms for adults? Is it disproportionate police response to black people in America? > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > … and I’m at a loss why. Was this part unclear? I was explicit: > [@Bone](#): > > If I truly believed you supported the right to arms, and were actually concerned about the scourge or colored firearms, I might take you seriously. But since I don’t, then I don’t. This type of fake concern is transparent and worthless. Just another instance of anti-gun folks looking for ways to be outraged. The words may be difficult to read when you cover them with bales of straw. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-gun-industry-thinks-women-want/755490.md?page=5)