# What the heck are vegans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 15, 2001, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071 "2001-01-15T02:33:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/41 "2001-01-17T03:53:18Z")
Whoa, back _off,_ **dude**. I’m vegan and I’m not on any damn crusade, nor do I torment anyone or try to win any converts. My thing is called “live and let live.” What **Lunatic13** said. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/42 "2001-01-17T03:56:27Z")
What **yosemitebabe** said. ---
**Author:** ![Road\_Rash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Road\_Rash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Road_Rash)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/43 "2001-01-17T04:11:31Z")
OK. I will chill. The press gives you a bad name. Of course, where is the news in a peace loving anything. Sorry for the steriotype. I’m not a big meat-eater. My palate goes more toward grains. A little meat adds flavor. I’m usually a cool dude, but I get pissy sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Aestivalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Aestivalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aestivalis)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/44 "2001-01-17T04:42:25Z")
Would the use of animal manure be considered exploitation of animals? It’s an animal by-product. I guess vegans might not be able to eat some organically grown vegetables if that were the case. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/45 "2001-01-17T05:39:37Z")
Granted that the term “vegetarian” is only properly applied to a person who doesn’t eat animal flesh, is there any standard term for those following other common restricted diets? For instance, many folks choose not to eat red meat, but have no problem with poultry. Catholics are forbidden to eat the flesh of a warm-blooded animal on Fridays in Lent (yes, that’s right, frog legs, alligator, and turtle soup are acceptable side dishes at the fish fry), and some folks eat seafood freely, but not landbound beasts. It seems like it’d spare a lot of confusion if we did have something to call those folks. [aside]If you want to hear a really offbeat form of pseudo-vegitarianism, for several years, my sister refused to eat any meat which was called by the same name as the animal which produced it: Beef, venison, and pork were fine, for instance, but not chicken, turkey, or fish. She just didn’t like to be reminded of what she was eating.[/aside] ---
**Author:** ![avacado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@avacado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avacado)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/46 "2001-01-17T05:52:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by woolly \* > > [indignant outburst in defence of the family fortune] > What’s the basis for this “wool is an objectionable industry” from a vegan /vegetarian perspective? 😕 > [/indignant outburst in defence of the family fortune] \*\* As the poster of the offending quote, I feel like I should explain. Vegan/vegetarianism are a group of stops on the spectrum of morals that runs from “people can kill anything” to " people should harm nothing". Some people think keeping animals for solely to shave is wrong. To these people, wool is the product of animal slavery. Some people think shaving sheep is fine, but eating them is wrong. Some people think you can kill 'em, skin 'em, and use their shinbones as a pencilbox. This thread is all about expounding different people’s ethics concerning animal. Please don’t be insulted if some of them disagree with your livelyhood. And **ticker** , from what I understand, no one uses animal gelatin anymore. It’s not economically feasible. The thing is, some of vegan/veggies operate on the vote principle: I have this one vote to give, so I’m going to vote my conscious. Even if one vote doesn’t change the world, what are going to do, not vote? That doesn’t change anything either. So, maybe the book you want or have to buy was somehow made in violation with your ethics. At least you did all that was reasonable. Wow, this is my fiftieth post. Go, me. ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/47 "2001-01-17T06:11:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*[aside]If you want to hear a really offbeat form of pseudo-vegitarianism, for several years, my sister refused to eat any meat which was called by the same name as the animal which produced it: Beef, venison, and pork were fine, for instance, but not chicken, turkey, or fish. She just didn’t like to be reminded of what she was eating.[/aside] \*\* [aside to aside][not exact quote] Homer: Lisa, what do you mean you’re a vegetarian? Lisa: I don’t want to eat anything that comes from an animal. Homer: But what about pork chops? Lisa: No. Homer: Ham? Lisa: No. Homer: Bacon? Lisa: Dad, those all come from the same animal! Homer: Hehehe, yeeeeeah, right Lisa. A wooonderful, maaagical animal. [/not exact quote][/aside to aside] ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/48 "2001-01-17T06:37:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ticker \* > \*\*How do strict vegans get around the problems with books and photographs? Conventional photographic film has the light sensitive chemicals suspended in geletin which is made from animals. Even in this digital age most large scale printing uses a conventional photographic plate to create the final printing plate. > > Surely books on veganism could not be tolerated without a serious compromise of principles. \*\* Yup. Lots of compromises. The world is full of greys, and is not black and white. The trick is to do the best you can in the circumstances, rather than not to try at all. We all find our own comfort level (which for me is veggie but not vegan due to my lack of willpower). ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/49 "2001-01-17T09:40:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by avacado \* > **And ticker, from what I understand, no one uses animal gelatin anymore. It’s not economically feasible.** Sorry, that is just not true. The photographic industry is still one of if not the largest user of high grade geletin - substitutes do not have the right properties. I cannot provide an online cite right now but I have seen the information repeated in several advanced (i.e. college level) photographic text books. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/50 "2001-01-17T15:22:34Z")
**Chronos** : > [@](#): > > [aside]If you want to hear a really offbeat form of pseudo-vegetarianism, for several years, my sister refused to eat any meat which was called by the same name as the animal which produced it: Beef, venison, and pork were fine, for instance, but not chicken, turkey, or fish. She just didn’t like to be reminded of what she was eating.[/aside] I think most people are like that. They want to distance themselves from the pain and fear and cruelty involved in what they’re eating, and that’s how certain meats get their names. I’m no etymologist, but I bet it’s no accident that our fellow mammals are the ones that get different names when they become food. A warm-blooded creature with emotions similar to ours isn’t what we want to think about when we chow down. Hence “veal” instead of “innocent baby calf,” “mutton” instead of “adorable little lamb.” I bet you that if people had to slaughter their own food, there’d be many more vegetarians in the U.S. Just for the record, I’m a vegetarian but not a vegan, and I use photographic film but don’t eat Jell-O. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/51 "2001-01-17T16:28:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Five \* > **"mutton" instead of "adorable little lamb."** I think that may be the one exception to your rule. Mutton is exclusively adult sheep. Lamb is lamb (chops, rack-of etc) but that example aside you may have a point. On the other hand, when the names were first invented I am not sure people were so squimish. ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/52 "2001-01-17T16:43:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m no etymologist, but I bet it’s no accident that our fellow mammals are the ones that get different names when they become food. A warm-blooded creature with emotions similar to ours isn’t what we want to think about when we chow down. Hence “veal” instead of “innocent baby calf,” “mutton” instead of “adorable little lamb.” And **lamb** chops? I don’t know; here in the states it’s rare that I hear someone refer to lamb as “mutton”. > [@](#): > > Just for the record, I’m a vegetarian but not a vegan, and I use photographic film but don’t eat Jell-O. Check out Hain’s, which I believe is vegetarian. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/53 "2001-01-17T16:57:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by avacado \* > \*\*from what I understand, no one uses animal gelatin anymore. It’s not economically feasible. \*\* That’s something I’d like more information about. A lot of vegans are health-conscious and into herbal medicine. A lot of herbal medicines these days come in capsules. I get herbs in VegiCaps as much as possible, but some are just not available in VegiCaps. I have heard suggestions that the “gelatin” used in capsules these days is not necessarily made from boiled-down animal parts. But they don’t have to tell you what it comes from. Jews and Muslims are wary of gelatin that may or may not be pork-based. Vegetarians would like to know if gelatin doesn’t come from animals, or what. ---
**Author:** ![avacado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@avacado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avacado)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2001, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/54 "2001-01-17T17:53:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Five \* > > **I’m no etymologist, but I bet it’s no accident that our fellow mammals are the ones that get different names when they become food. A warm-blooded creature with emotions similar to ours isn’t what we want to think about when we chow down. Hence “veal” instead of “innocent baby calf,” “mutton” instead of "adorable little lamb."** I think the reason why cattle and pig meat is called beef and pork in English dates back to Anglo-Saxon times in England. The Normans spoke French and ate beef and pork, seperating themselves from the peasents who spoke some version of English and raised the animals, Or so I heard in high school Latin. Maybe someone can correct this for me? As for lamb and veal, Cecil deals with it: [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlamb.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlamb.html) [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mveal.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mveal.html) > [@](#): > > \*\*I bet you that if people had to slaughter their own food, there’d be many more vegetarians in the U.S. > \*\* FWIW, my dad grew up on a farm, milking cows and beheading chickens on tree stumps for Sunday dinner. He said he couldn’t understand anyone not eating meat, and that anyone who grew up on a farm wouldn’t be a vegetarian. Of course, he never saw factory farms or slaughterhouses… ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/55 "2001-01-18T13:48:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lunatic13 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by relic\_11 \* > > \*\*Kudos to anyone who knows what fruitarians eat! \*\* > > Fruitarians only eat plant food that has been harested without killing the plant, ie., fruits. \*\* Are you serious? Even harvesting fruit is killing something. If you pick an apple to eat, no, you don’t kill the tree, but you are still killing that apple. Why won’t they eat veggies? Because they would be killing a whole plant? What is the difference between killing an apple or orange, and killing a potato vine or bunch of broccoli or some wheat? I know it’s different from killing a cow or pig to eat (duh), but you are still “killing” the piece of fruit you are eating. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/56 "2001-01-18T15:27:41Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Kinsey \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Are you serious? Even harvesting fruit is killing something. If you pick an apple to eat, no, you don’t kill the tree, but you are still killing that apple. . . . I know it’s different from killing a cow or pig to eat (duh), but you are still “killing” the piece of fruit you are eating. \*\* OTOH, from the fruit’s “point of view” (to the extent such a thing is possible), being eaten is an excellent way to propagate the species; seeds are spread through the dispersion of fecal matter or through the discarding of cores, etc. Unfortunately, since most people back their garbage and defecate in the toilet, the fruit’s plans for propagation are thwarted. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/57 "2001-01-18T16:47:27Z")
Just to set a few things straight… A person who does not eat red meat or poultry but still consumes fish is called a **pesco-vegetarian** or **pescetarian**. They will also eat dairy products and eggs. Although I am not a fruitarian, It seems as though fruit will fall from the tree and die anyway so they are just ‘helping it along’, if you will. A fruitarian wouldn’t eat a carrot, for example, because the part that’s eaten is the root and harvesting it from the ground would kill the plant. Some vegans also go as far as not eating yeast products, too. I used to be a pesco-vegetarian. It wasn’t bad. I did it for health reasons (I wanted to lose weight) for six months. Before that, I stopped consuming red meat, again, for health reasons. Now I eat just about everything the supermarket and butcher have to offer 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DaveX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/96bed5/32.png) [@DaveX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveX)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/58 "2001-01-18T17:23:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Vegans seem to be the ones whose personal habits go beyond personal. They appear to me to be a radical element who are not content with their lifestyle being a personal choice. They are on a crusade to win converts and torment meat eaters. A few people jumped on cooldude for this, but it is a pretty common viewpoint (not that I agree with it). The problem being media representation. Like it or not, it’s not vegetarians that are associated with the violent animal rights groups (ALF, etc.), it’s vegans. A man (or woman) deciding not to have the chicken for lunch is never going to make the headlines, but blowing up a mink farm certainly will. I live in Utah, and there is quite a ‘straight-edge’ contigent out here. Because of irresponsible reporting, people in these parts automatically associate vegans with ‘straight-edge’. Every time there is a story about straight-edgers, they are described as ‘vegans who don’t drink, smoke, or have pre-marital sex’. This is not a good association for the vegans, since the straight-edgers out here have a lengthy history of pointless violence. On a lighter note… In keeping with the fruitarian philosophy, I don’t think I’ll eat anymore dead animals, either. I’ll just keep a live pig in my backyard and flay the bacon of him as needed. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![avacado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@avacado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avacado)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/59 "2001-01-18T20:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DaveX \* > I live in Utah, and there is quite a ‘straight-edge’ contigent out here. Because of irresponsible reporting, people in these parts automatically associate vegans with ‘straight-edge’. Every time there is a story about straight-edgers, they are described as ‘vegans who don’t drink, smoke, or have pre-marital sex’. This is not a good association for the vegans, since the straight-edgers out here have a lengthy history of pointless violence. > \*\* To be fair, though, plenty of straight-edge kids are cool and mellow, and plenty of activists don’t blow things up. I guess veganism and sXe got mixed together because so many kids with “the edge” are also vegan or vegetarian (but not the other way around). It follows that someone who’s concerned about the substances that enter his/her body might also be concerned about the food that enters that same body. The reasons why someone goes straight edge are as diverse as the reasons why someone stops eating meat, but there is some affinity between those sets of choices. It sucks that DaveX’s area is filled with violence. Straight edge hardcore kids have a popularized image of violent, skinhead-like gang behavior (thanks, MTV). You know the stereotype: athletic white males in expensive sneakers and basketball jerseys, listening to Earth Crisis and harrassing anyone who drinks, smokes, or makes out. Really though, I think this is mostly media hype. Maybe there are so many straight kids in Utah because part of Latter Day Saint behavior is essentially straight edge (no tobacco, no premarital sex, no drugs (including caffiene),etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Peta\_Tzunami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b487fb/32.png) [@Peta\_Tzunami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peta_Tzunami)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071/60 "2001-01-19T15:02:32Z")
Just wanted to add that a fairly comprehensive, detailed explanation of the _why’s_ behind an ethical vegan lifestyle can be found at a website entitled [“Why Vegan?”](http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/) **SIDENOTE:** FWIW, Hain does make a vegetarian gelatin dessert; veg’an gelatin is a product of agar-agar (seaweed). It’s not bad tastewise, but it doesn’t get as…um…elastic might be the word I’m looking for–its a softer type of dessert. A lot of the other subjects within this thread have probably been discussed ad naseum in **GD**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-heck-are-vegans/50071.md?page=2)