# What the hell, Arizona? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268 "2014-02-25T23:21:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/41 "2014-02-26T17:05:56Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Which was part of AC’s point in his “conversation” with Al Melvin. Who are AC and Al Melvin? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/42 "2014-02-26T17:15:59Z")
Yikes! Sorry, had my threads mixed up. The link was posted in the SRIOTD thread. Anderson Cooper had an…interesting…exchange with Arizona senator and gubernatorial (underdog) candidate Al Melvin about his support for SB 1062. Grab some popcorn and [enjoy the evisceration](http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2014/02/24/al-melvin-at-his-confused-bestworst-on-anderson-cooper). ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/43 "2014-02-26T17:26:03Z")
Regardless… Yes, businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone. Unless they are doing so based on the customer’s race, ethnicity, sex, disability, or religion. Then it’s illegal discrimination at both a State and Federal level. You can kick someone out for being rude, or disruptive, or not wearing shoes, but you can’t kick them out for being Black or Wiccan or a woman. In Arizona, and in many other places, and on a Federal level, sexual orientation is not one of those “protected classes,” groups designated as being legally protected from discrimination. So a business owner _can_ kick someone out _simply for being gay._ Not illegal, not a problem. Which makes SB 1062 entirely moot: people _already_ have the legal ability to exclude homosexuals for any reason, religious or otherwise. Now, that’s going to change, eventually, and when it does SB 1062 will be moot in a completely new way. I imagine the supporters of the bill, and the majority who voted for it, are hoping it’ll be an end-around past any future nondiscrimination legislation. But if it stands, and is eventually rendered irrelevant by federal protection, it will be challenged and dismissed by Federal courts in a hot second. . ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/44 "2014-02-26T17:34:57Z")
> [@andros](#): > > MLK Day, Jan Brewer, Joe Arpaio, SB 1070…and you’re only _now_ ashamed? Yeah, I want apologies for those as well. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/45 "2014-02-26T17:37:09Z")
[Pat Buchanan’s response: Repeal **all** civil rights laws!](http://townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/2014/02/25/how-freedom-dies-n1799920/page/full) Not making this up. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/46 "2014-02-26T18:41:48Z")
So then is the basic worry with this bill that if/when a federal anti-discrimination law gets passed Arizona would sue or do something to slow down it taking effect? Plus the fact that they won’t just admit their real intentions with the bill. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/47 "2014-02-26T19:25:33Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > So then is the basic worry with this bill that if/when a federal anti-discrimination law gets passed Arizona would sue or do something to slow down it taking effect? > > Plus the fact that they won’t just admit their real intentions with the bill. There are other more immediate items the proposed law is bound to interfere with: > **[Reality vs rhetoric in the 'religious freedom' SB1062 debate | Arizona...](http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2014/02/25/reality-vs-rhetoric-in-the-az-sb1062-debate-religious-freedom-lgbt/#ixzz2uRfK0oeG)** > > In most of Arizona, and most states in the U.S., businesses don’t need a license to discriminate against gays: It’s already legal. > [@](#): > > “We have left the confines of reality,” Republican Rep. J.D. Mesnard of Chandler, who voted for the bill, said of claims about the legislation’s impact. He said although the bill isn’t meant to discriminate against gays, in politics, “perception becomes reality at some point.” > > But legal experts say the bill would without a doubt allow more discrimination against gay people – at least in Phoenix, Flagstaff and Tucson, which have enacted their own, more stringent anti-discrimination ordinances that cover sexual orientation. In the rest of the state, gays do not have such legal protections and the bill would not make a difference, legal authorities say. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/48 "2014-02-26T20:20:08Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > I really like seeing big businesses step up. American Airlines CEO says it’s causing great concern to their employees, especially those who live in-state. Intel says it directly conflicts with their own non-discrimination policies. > Apple, AT&T, Marriott, Delta Airlines and many others all are urging Gov. Brewer to veto the bill. It says a lot to me about the state of the country that heavy hitters such as these immediately speak up on the side of diversity. > Oh, right - BBQ Pit. AZ GOP poopyheads! I’ve rather enjoyed watching the mental gymnastics as they struggle to figure out which base should get the pandering - business or religion. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/49 "2014-02-26T20:23:27Z")
Oh yeah, I guess the state one would overide the local/city one. On the plus side, this just in! [http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/politics/texas-same-sex/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/politics/texas-same-sex/index.html) > [@](#): > > A federal judge has struck down Texas’ ban on same-sex marriage, ruling Wednesday it has no “rational relation to a legitimate government purpose.” I like that phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/50 "2014-02-26T20:27:56Z")
Interestingly, we are pitting former Judge Andrew Napolitano in the SDMB for his lack of historical knowledge on the slavery issue, but in his area of expertise he \*\*is \*\*sounding rational: > **[Fox's Napolitano: Arizona's Anti-Gay Segregation Law Is "Profoundly...](https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-nation/foxs-napolitano-arizonas-anti-gay-segregation-law-profoundly-unconstitutional)** > > From the February 24 edition of Fox News Radio's Tom Sullivan Radio Show: > [@](#): > > NAPOLITANO: In my opinion, this legislation is, in this era, profoundly unconstitutional. The Supreme Court has ruled in [Romer v. Evans], a Supreme Court case involving a resolution of a city, an ordinance of a city in Colorado which prohibited entities from protecting gays - it didn’t discriminate against them but it said you can’t give them added protection - and the Supreme Court said the government can’t make distinctions like that. Government can’t do things based on hatred or stereotypes. So to permit someone to refuse to serve a birthday cake or a wedding cake to a gay person but to compel them to serve that wedding cake to a straight person is plain stereotypes and hatred and the Constitution prohibits government from doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/51 "2014-02-26T22:08:25Z")
> [@andros](#): > > You can kick someone out for being rude, or disruptive, or not wearing shoes, but you can’t kick them out for being Black or Wiccan or a woman. What if I am a conservative muslim business owner, and I want to adhere to my religious requirement not to interact with women to whom I am unrelated? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/52 "2014-02-26T22:09:14Z")
[Tucker Carlson: Making businesses serve gay customers is “fascism”.](http://www.salon.com/2014/02/26/tucker_carlson_making_businesses_serve_gay_customers_is_fascism/) ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/53 "2014-02-26T22:19:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Tucker Carlson: Making businesses serve gay customers is “fascism”.](http://www.salon.com/2014/02/26/tucker_carlson_making_businesses_serve_gay_customers_is_fascism/) I have to highlight one of the comments: > [@](#): > > **Disraeli** > Tucker has a point. It is a historical fact that Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini were obsessed with equal treatment for homosexuals and used the full force of the state to ensure compliance. This is particularly evident in the Nuremburg Wedding Cake Purity laws. > > I may be a little confused on the specifics but I think we can all agree on the generalities. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/54 "2014-02-26T22:36:19Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > This being the Pit Thread: Egads, what a clusterfuck have they wrought with this one, even the Super Bowl Committee is coughing loudly. [They sure are.](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20140226/super-bowl-xlix-relocation-arizona/?eref=sihp) I hadn’t heard about that. For extra fun, note that _this already happened once before_: in the early 1990s Super Bowl XXVII was moved to California after Arizona shot down a bill that would have made Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday a state holiday. Eventually Arizona adopted the holiday and it was quickly awarded another Super Bowl (that’d be XXX), as well as getting Super Bowl XLII years later. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/55 "2014-02-26T22:41:57Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Oh yeah, I guess the state one would overide the local/city one. > On the plus side, this just in! > > [http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/politics/texas-same-sex/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/politics/texas-same-sex/index.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > A federal judge has struck down Texas’ ban on same-sex marriage, ruling Wednesday it has no “rational relation to a legitimate government purpose.” > > I like that phrasing. Unfortunately, this statement relies on a usage of the word “rational” (that is, meaning **NOT** batshit crazy), which is not generally insisted upon (or evidently even favored) when the SCOTUS applies a “rational basis” test. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/56 "2014-02-26T22:49:58Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > You know, I don’t recall the Republicans being this worthless and representing only the nuttiest fringe back in the Elder Bush / Clinton years. > > All the sane Republicans retired or became Democrats, apparently. As a friend of mine once put it, “You can’t spend 30 years dry-humping the crazy and then act surprised when the crazy wants to fuck.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/57 "2014-02-26T22:59:01Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > I have to highlight one of the comments: Well, [Ernst Rohm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_R%C3%B6hm), now, **he** would have been sympathetic! [But you never really do know how your own family is going to react . . .](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/58 "2014-02-26T23:01:45Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > What if I am a conservative muslim business owner, and I want to adhere to my religious requirement not to interact with women to whom I am unrelated? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/59 "2014-02-26T23:03:23Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > As a friend of mine once put it, “You can’t spend 30 years dry-humping the crazy and then act surprised when the crazy wants to fuck.” I love that! And then you run into even worse problems when you violate Rule One and actually throw the crazy a fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268/60 "2014-02-26T23:06:56Z")
> [@buddy431](#): > > No. Religion is a federally protected class, while sexual orientation is not. This has always made me think that someone should start a religion, say the acolytes awaiting the second coming of Judy Garland (all hail her ruby shoes), in which hot, juicy, gay sex is a holy sacrament. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-arizona/682268.md?page=4)