# What the hell....Ask the Lesbian.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 3, 2001, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150 "2001-05-03T00:20:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/41 "2001-05-03T13:23:15Z")
1. It’s now 2001, has the Lesbian Alliance updated their recruitment premiums from toasters to something…more…trendy? 2. Indigo Girls…yea or nay? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/42 "2001-05-03T13:34:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > **1) It’s now 2001, has the Lesbian Alliance updated their recruitment premiums from toasters to something…more…trendy?** I hear they’re getting their choice of MP3 players or DVD’s… ---
**Author:** ![Tiburon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e36b37/32.png) [@Tiburon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiburon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/43 "2001-05-03T13:36:12Z")
Morning, everyone. **KMudd,** never heard the song before. I don’t make up imaginary boyfriends, though. I do say this a lot: “Mom…I have no time for a boyfriend…I’m so busy!” Under my breath, I’m thinking to myself, “I’m so busy as it is, with my girlfriend…” **beagledave,** how about I forgot that episode of Ellen and so I didn’t get all the toaster jokes until someone reminded me. And I admit it. Indigo girls = yea. There, are you all happy? Tibs. ---
**Author:** ![Gravity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gravity/32/14322_2.png) [@Gravity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gravity)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/44 "2001-05-03T13:49:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > \*\*Since your parents don’t know about you being a lesbian do you do like the song by Janice Ian says and “Invent male lovers on the phone”? \*\* “inventing lovers on the phone” Janice Ian - _At Seventeen_ No mention of ‘male.’ ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/45 "2001-05-03T13:55:09Z")
I know the song doesn’t mention male lovers but since Tiburon doesn’t want her mom to know she is a lesbian ,she wouldn’t invent a female lover. Here is the song. AT SEVENTEEN (Janis Ian) I LEARNED THE TRUTH AT SEVENTEEN THAT LOVE WAS MEANT FOR BEAUTY QUEENS AND HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS WITH CLEAR SKINNED SMILES WHO MARRIED YOUNG AND THEN RETIRED THE VALENTINES I NEVER KNEW THE FRIDAY NIGHT CHARADES OF YOUTH WERE SPENT ON ONE MORE BEAUTIFUL AT SEVENTEEN I LEARNED THE TRUTH AND THOSE OF US WITH RAVAGED FACES LACKING IN THE SOCIAL GRACES DESPERATELY REMAINED AT HOME INVENTING LOVERS ON THE PHONE WHO CALLED TO SAY - COME DANCE WITH ME AND MURMURED VAGUE OBSCENITIES IT ISN’T ALL IT SEEMS AT SEVENTEEN A BROWN EYED GIRL IN HAND ME DOWNS WHOSE NAME I NEVER COULD PRONOUNCE SAID - PITY PLEASE THE ONES WHO SERVE THEY ONLY GET WHAT THEY DESERVE THE RICH RELATIONED HOMETOWN QUEEN MARRIES INTO WHAT SHE NEEDS WITH A GUARANTEE OF COMPANY AND HAVEN FOR THE ELDERLY SO REMEMBER THOSE WHO WIN THE GAME LOSE THE LOVE THEY SOUGHT TO GAIN IN DEBENTURES OF QUALITY AND DUBIOUS INTEGRITY THEIR SMALL-TOWN EYES WILL GAPE AT YOU IN DULL SURPRISE WHEN PAYMENT DUE EXCEEDS ACCOUNTS RECEIVED AT SEVENTEEN (INSTRUMENTAL) TO THOSE OF US WHO KNEW THE PAIN OF VALENTINES THAT NEVER CAME AND THOSE WHOSE NAMES WERE NEVER CALLED WHEN CHOOSING SIDES FOR BASKETBALL IT WAS LONG AGO AND FAR AWAY THE WORLD WAS YOUNGER THAN TODAY WHEN DREAMS WERE ALL THEY GAVE FOR FREE TO UGLY DUCKLING GIRLS LIKE ME WE ALL PLAY THE GAME, AND WHEN WE DARE WE CHEAT OURSELVES AT SOLITAIRE INVENTING LOVERS ON THE PHONE REPENTING OTHER LIVES UNKNOWN THAT CALL AND SAY - COME ON, DANCE WITH ME AND MURMUR VAGUE OBSCENITIES AT UGLY GIRLS LIKE ME, AT SEVENTEEN ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/46 "2001-05-03T13:56:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > \*\*Since your parents don’t know about you being a lesbian do you do like the song by Janice Ian says and “Invent male lovers on the phone”? \*\* Sorry to quibble, but the actual lyrics from Janice Ian’s “At Seventeen” don’t mention male lovers, just lovers And those of us with ravaged faces Lacking in the social graces Desperately remained at home Inventing lovers on the phone Who called to say - come dance with me And murmered vague obscenities It isn’t all it seems at seventeen Full text of these and other great Janice Ian tunes can be found [here](http://janisian.com/lyrics.html). I’ve been a fan of hers since “Society’s Child” came out when she was fifteen. (I’m sorry, _came out_ was not used as a pun here) and when I look at my music library, I find that some of my favorite singers (Janis Ian, Melissa Etheridge and k.d.lang) are lesbians. Don’t know the significance of that, though there is a temptation to apply some sort of stereotype and claim additional artistic abilities for those who are same-sex attracted. My personal contact with open lesbians is almost nonexistant, so I am interested in knowing if, in the experience of **Tiburon, Anthracite, Theios** and others, you’ve noted more artistic talents among your lesbian friends than would be accounted for by random chance? Thanks Hometownboy ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/47 "2001-05-03T13:57:51Z")
Oops! Apologies to **Kmudd20001** for the simulpost. My question still stands, though. Hometownboy ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/48 "2001-05-03T14:00:52Z")
I was only trying to ask if she prented to have boyfriends so her mom wouldn’t know she was a lesbian. I was just using the song for an example. There are lots of people even straight people who invent lovers. ---
**Author:** ![Tiburon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e36b37/32.png) [@Tiburon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiburon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/49 "2001-05-03T14:02:30Z")
**My personal contact with open lesbians is almost nonexistant, so I am interested in knowing if, in the experience of Tiburon, Anthracite, Theios and others, you’ve noted more artistic talents among your lesbian friends than would be accounted for by random chance?** I haven’t noticed that the gay women I know seem to have a particular slant toward the artistic. I do think, though, that perhaps people in the art world are (_perhaps_) more open about their sexual orientation and so many more in that field may be openly gay - thus sort of giving the impression that we’re all sort of artsy-fartsy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/50 "2001-05-03T14:03:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tiburon \* > \*\* p.s. What the heck did I say when you asked me that? I can’t remember. I think I was having DTs over no peeps. \*\* I think this was still at dinner. I asked whether the physical feeling of inter-gender sex was uncomfortable or somehow not good. You said you had a guy once, and while it wasn’t BAD, there was no real click for you. (We used more frank words, but this IS a public forum.) I will ask again for the education of all, and to ensure I am not misquoting you. Is sex with a man a BAD thing? [sub]kinda gives all us guys some hope[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/51 "2001-05-03T14:03:48Z")
pretended not prented ---
**Author:** ![moi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@moi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/52 "2001-05-03T14:05:05Z")
Hiyah, **Tiburon**. 😃 Neat thread…I’ve been kinda nosing around for something like this with all the “Ask the Guy” threads. _steps up to mike…taptap_ So, um…What’re your feelings about bisexuals? Do ya think we’re indecisive? Won’t date us? Tired of the phrase “bi-curious”? Thanks. _does a little dance while waiting patiently_ ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/53 "2001-05-03T14:18:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hometownboy \* > (I’m sorry, _came out_ was not used as a pun here) and when I look at my music library, I find that some of my favorite singers (Janis Ian, Melissa Etheridge and k.d.lang) are lesbians. Don’t know the significance of that, > > Hometownboy \*\* I have liked Janis Ian since I saw her on Saturday night live back in the 1970’s .k.d. lang has the most beautiful voice. When she sang with Roy Orbison on “Crying” it was prefection. I also like Elton John. ---
**Author:** ![Tiburon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e36b37/32.png) [@Tiburon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiburon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/54 "2001-05-03T14:21:19Z")
**Unclebill,** Ohhh, okay, yeah - men just don’t do a darn thing for me. To answer your question - Sex with a man is a bad thing when you don’t want to be having sex with a man. Sex with anyone is a bad thing when you don’t want to be having sex with them. **Moi,** \*So, um…What’re your feelings about bisexuals? Do ya think we’re indecisive? Won’t date us? Tired of the phrase “bi-curious”? \* Oh boy. My feelings about bisexuals…no, I don’t think that they are indecisive. I think that there are people who truly find themselves physically attracted to both genders or who are attracted to personalities, the gender being a second-hand thing. I think people who believe that bisexuals are confused or indecisive are too quick to disregard the true feelings of bisexuals and I think that is a mistake. I will admit that I am more cautious dating a bi-girl than a gay girl, though I’m not sure I could put a finger on why. Overall, though, it depends on the woman. If I feel secure about things, hell, she can flirt all she wants with either gender. I have dated bi women but generally, I prefer to date only gay women. (Maybe because I’m worried it is just a phase to her? I don’t know - again, it depends entirely on the girl and how well I know her.) **bi-curious** I am not tired of this phrase, per se - but I _am_ tired of hearing little puns that play off it. Jeeeesssuuuussss, it gets old quickly. One girl told me she was “One, if by sea…Two if bi-curious…” :rolleyes: Thanks for the questions. Tibs. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/55 "2001-05-03T21:11:50Z")
1. When you met me at Spiffle II did you find me to be the hateful, mean-spirited, bigoted person that so many people in the gay community believe Republicans are? 2. Not a question, but… If you think your mom doesn’t know, you’re kidding yourself, babe. You’re, what, 27? And you’ve (presumably) never had a serious boyfriend? Believe me, she knows. She’s just deluding herself. That or she’d just rather not talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![Theios](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e8c25b/32.png) [@Theios](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theios)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/56 "2001-05-04T00:50:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > > I know not all lesbians hate men but some do . This statement is about the ones that do. > I have seen lesbians speakers at rally’s one after another > attack men and their marks boil down to men have power. Well, just remember that fanatics of every group are a little “out there”. The SDMB has opened my eyes to the fact that I shouldn’t judge all the normal, well adjusted Christains based on what I hear from the extreme right hate mongers. I now understand that those people are on the fringe and that most folk aren’t like that. That’s how I would view those rabid man haters at the rallies. In my experience, most lesbians don’t hate men. I’ve only known one who did, and she was pretty out there (if you know what I mean) > [@](#): > > That is basicly what they claim. Whatever happened in their life somehow the bad things were caused by men because they think men are in control . So it seems they resent men but still want to look like a man because they think it is a power statement. That may have been what they secretly think. But again, we’re talking about extremists. It’s possible that those folks could have benifited from a little therapy. That much anger couldn’t be a healthy thing. I assure you that even as butch as I seem, I don’t want to be a man. > [@](#): > > In a lesbian couple (one were one is butch) is the butch > the more domanate (I know it is spelled wrong) one? You know the old saying. “Butch in the Streets, Femme in the Sheets” In most of my relationships, I’ve ended up dominating slightly. Not because I’m butch, but because I’m more confident in making decisions. It always starts out about equal, or even tilted towards my SO. But after about a year, I’m more dominate. (just my personal observations) ---
**Author:** ![Theios](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e8c25b/32.png) [@Theios](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theios)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/57 "2001-05-04T00:59:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hometownboy \* > > My personal contact with open lesbians is almost nonexistant, so I am interested in knowing if, in the experience of **Tiburon, Anthracite, Theios** and others, you’ve noted more artistic talents among your lesbian friends than would be accounted for by random chance? In my experience, lesbians aren’t more artistic. I’ve seen a pretty good mix of talents and career paths. Tib probably has it right, in that people in the Arts may be more open about their sexuality. Sounds good to me. ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/58 "2001-05-04T01:01:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Theios \* > Well, just remember that fanatics of every group are a little “out there”. The SDMB has opened my eyes to the fact that I shouldn’t judge all the normal, well adjusted Christains based on what I hear from the extreme right hate mongers. I now understand that those people are on the fringe and that most folk aren’t like that. That’s how I would view those rabid man haters at the rallies. In my experience, most lesbians don’t hate men. I’ve only known one who did, and she was pretty out there (if you know what I mean) > \*\* Thanks for the kind response. Note Not all right wingers are Christains and not all Christains are right wingers. Like you wrote there are fanatics on every issue . Kevin ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/59 "2001-05-04T01:46:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hometownboy \* > **…I am interested in knowing if, in the experience of Tiburon, Anthracite, Theios and others, you’ve noted more artistic talents among your lesbian friends than would be accounted for by random chance?** I’m sorry, but I should not be participating in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Carina42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Carina42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carina42)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150/60 "2001-05-04T01:51:11Z")
I have three very close lesbian friends (a couple, & a currently single woman.) For some wierd reason, I have never felt comfortable discussing this with them (I am a breeder BTW) … Do you think lesbians objectify the female body as much as men often do, in a sexual sense? I mean, many men can get a hard-on just looking at a titty mag & fantasizing. I realise my friends have physical preferences in women, just like men do…boob size, femme vs butch, that sort of thing; we talk about it. Personally, I cannot imagine getting hot & bothered 🙂 over an image of a guy; but I wonder if lesbians are more hardwired to do so than straight women? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ask-the-lesbian/64150.md?page=4)