# What the hell ever happened to the white American man? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 19, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551 "2011-07-19T06:20:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/21 "2011-07-19T14:18:46Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Whatever happened to the archetypal white American man? Was he just a myth that never really existed? > > We were supposed to take care of business and our families and stride the world carrying progress on our shoulders, now we’re just cheap and angry little men stamping our feet. There is almost no grace, or nobility, or magnanimity out there. We’re all little Daffy Ducks shouting “Mine! Mine! Mine!” Nothing has changed, dude. Do you really think this “mine, mine, mine!” attitude is something _new_ for white men? Seriously? I don’t know how anyone familiar with history could possibly conclude this “new trend” that you’re complaining about is anything except 2000 years of tradition, quite frankly. It is exactly why white men enjoy disproportionate levels of power today. Because they are culturally programmed to scream “Mine! Mine! Mine!” The only thing that has changed is that society has become less accepting of white male self-entitlement. In previous decades, an angry little white man stamping his feet would get his way because others were too oppressed or ignorant to fight back. Nowadays, an angry little white man stamping his feet will more likely to be ignored, laughed at, or kicked out of office. That’s it. The idea that white men were ever expected to be full of grace, nobility, or magnanimity reads like a punchline to some Mark Twain joke. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/22 "2011-07-19T14:20:49Z")
> [@astro](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Will you still feel that way if he gets out-negotiated? > > Based on the mad political strategy skillz the Congressional Republicans have demonstrated to date they will be lucky to escape the current negotiations with their testicles intact. No, I realize you currently think that. I’m asking whether you’ll still feel that way if they wind up getting what they want by negotiating for the win. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/23 "2011-07-19T14:21:35Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Re articulation there just seems to be a real childishness and borderline intellectual dishonesty in the arguments and positions ruling class white males have adopted over the past several years. The positions and emotions surrounding them are almost hysterical. Everyone’s protecting their master’s money bag, the forward looking, progressive, "can do’ attitude of taking on tough social problems and bringing them to heel really isn’t there anymore. So are you a believer in the “greatest generation”? Maybe a nice world war is what we need to straighten us out and make us more progressive. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/24 "2011-07-19T14:43:53Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Whatever happened to the archetypal white American man? Was he just a myth that never really existed? I moved to Canada. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/25 "2011-07-19T15:00:28Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > I moved to Canada. We miss you so. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/26 "2011-07-19T15:25:53Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So are you a believer in the “greatest generation”? Maybe a nice world war is what we need to straighten us out and make us more progressive. My brother sent me a demotivational poster recently. It was a photo of emaciated Jews gazing from behind the fence of their government-sponsored housing development. It had been colorized so the people were orange. the caption was, “Concentrated Orange Jews.” I laughed because I’m into dark humor, and I laughed at the ridiculousness of the 1930-40s German government for rounding up an ethnicity and concentrating them in easily monitored sites. And then I stopped laughing because I remembered what we did with our Japanese immigrants and citizens in the '40s. It was too close to home. And for all the outrage I allow for the treatment of Euro Jews, I am very uneasy about how rapidly our own breach (sans genocide as far as I know) is being forgotten. That Ward Cleaver should ever represent the real Whitey is indeed laughable. There’s good & bad folks of all races, maybe even a few real life Ward Cleavers and Howard Cunninghams. Sometimes people match stereotypes perfectly, often they miss entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/27 "2011-07-19T15:56:53Z")
We started thinking our position was something we were entitled to rather than something we had to earn. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/28 "2011-07-19T16:49:53Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I don’t disagree with the OP at all, and it’s silly to point him to stormfront or white pride. If this was a conversation about Indian men or black men no one would have a problem with it. Why can’t white men discuss their situation? If someone said “What’s wrong with black men, they were supposed to take care of business/families, now they’re just cheap, angry little men?” no one would have a problem with that? My main problem with the OP is that it suggests we’re supposed to have higher expectations for white men. I can’t really see anyone saying that white women or black men aren’t doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/29 "2011-07-19T17:02:09Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > But Ok, I see your point. It would be nice to have a place where you can enjoy your own culture without walking on eggshells, afraid you’re going to offend someone else in the mosaic. I put on a kilt, run around throwing rocks on chains, and drinking Scotch in the daytime, in front of the chillins. Hasn’t seemed to offend any of the passers-by. ETA: And Hooyeah, I’m about as white as you can get! ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/30 "2011-07-19T17:50:52Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > I put on a kilt, run around throwing rocks on chains, and drinking Scotch in the daytime, in front of the chillins. > > Hasn’t seemed to offend any of the passers-by. Did you remember to go au naturel beneath the kilt? ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/31 "2011-07-19T17:54:01Z")
I’m obligated to leave that a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/32 "2011-07-19T18:03:01Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > I put on a kilt, run around throwing rocks on chains, and drinking Scotch in the daytime, in front of the chillins. > > Hasn’t seemed to offend any of the passers-by. Oh. You’re on the Alameda High School track team? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/33 "2011-07-19T18:15:54Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > My main problem with the OP is that it suggests we’re supposed to have higher expectations for white men. I can’t really see anyone saying that white women or black men aren’t doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing. I don’t think it’s that he thinks white men are expected to have higher standards because they are white, but because they are his peers and they are letting him down personally. Asian men may well be disappointing, too, but he doesn’t have a personal stake in it. These are the people he is associated with, that he was raised to want to grow up to resemble, that represented his own ideas of adult mahood. This is his myth, his narrative, his set of achetypes. And they suck. I’m a grad student. I don’t think my university is all that special, but I’d be upset if it was the locus of some kind of misconduct, even among undergrads, even though misconduct at other universities doesn’t concern me at all. It’s natural to not want groups you are affiliated with, by choice or by birth, to eflect poorly on you and the world. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/34 "2011-07-19T18:39:26Z")
My take on it is that it’s just a natural progression, and I’m fine with that. However, I do regret being in the position where I, a white man, is one of the ones who finally “gets it”, am not oppresive, racist, sexist, entitled, etc., but damn if I’m not one of the ones who’s going to have to pay heavily for the sins of my forefathers. I’m happy with just a fair shake, but I’m not happy with having to bear the brunt of backlash I didn’t personally engender. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/35 "2011-07-19T19:17:09Z")
I can’t help but wonder where the OP and many of this thread’s posters are getting their notions of how “white American men” behave these days. I live in a large midwestern city, and approximately 80% of it is made up of neighborhoods in which white American men are living perfectly nice lives, working at their jobs, providing for and enjoying their families (and dealing with the periodic stuggles that family life always creates), living in comforable homes, driving nice cars, drinking beer and watching sports and movies on big-screen TV’s. I go to one of our nearby lakes and I see white American men and their bikini-clad wives and girlfriends zipping around in the water on their Sea-Doo’s and Jet-Ski’s. I see white guys riding bicycles on the roads around the lake and on bike paths all around town. I go to restaurants and sports bars and everywhere I look are white guys enjoying themselves and having a good time. And I’d wager the same is going on in the vast majority of cities and towns all across the country. People on this board need to get out more. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/36 "2011-07-19T19:25:32Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > My take on it is that it’s just a natural progression, and I’m fine with that. > > However, I do regret being in the position where I, a white man, is one of the ones who finally “gets it”, am not oppresive, racist, sexist, entitled, etc., but damn if I’m not one of the ones who’s going to have to pay heavily for the sins of my forefathers. I’m happy with just a fair shake, but I’m not happy with having to bear the brunt of backlash I didn’t personally engender. See? It is really all about money… ( _I tole ya so !!_ ) ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/37 "2011-07-19T19:35:37Z")
> [@astro](#): > > President Obama is actually the man I see out there in terms of a man acting like the archetypal white American man should act. That’s mighty white of him. That black president is so great, you’d think he’s a white guy! > [@astro](#): > > We were supposed to take care of business and our families and stride the world carrying progress on our shoulders So, you’re saying that there was a burden and white men were supposed to handle it. A white man’s burden? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/38 "2011-07-19T19:57:12Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > If someone said “What’s wrong with black men, they were supposed to take care of business/families, now they’re just cheap, angry little men?” no one would have a problem with that? > > My main problem with the OP is that it suggests we’re supposed to have higher expectations for white men. I can’t really see anyone saying that white women or black men aren’t doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing. If a black man said it, I would at least allow him the chance of saying it and expressing what he feels is his personal frustration with his peers. I myself have had things to say on the subject of Indian men in the past, and I’m not even male! And am I not allowed to express frustration with Indian women? That doesn’t mean he’s wrong, or it’s not up for discussion - that’s rather up to white men, as I said before. But merely saying it shouldn’t be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/39 "2011-07-19T20:10:16Z")
> [@astro](#): > > President Obama is actually the man I see out there in terms of a man acting like the archetypal white American man should act. Maybe it was just a historical and mythic conceit and he never really existed after all. How often people forget the he is as much White as he is Black. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551/40 "2011-07-19T20:13:50Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > That’s mighty white of him. > > That black president is so great, you’d think he’s a white guy! > > So, you’re saying that there was a burden and white men were supposed to handle it. A white man’s burden? Why … why… yes! When you put it that way it really crystallizes the issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-ever-happened-to-the-white-american-man/589551.md?page=3)