# What the Hell have you done to yourself? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2001, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442 "2001-08-28T00:27:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/1 "2001-08-28T00:27:23Z")
A) I am not ranting about tattoos in general. B) Yes, he has the _right_ to do whatever the Hell he wants to with his body. C) I personally, would try to avoid letting it affect a hiring decision, but I’m not totally sure I’d be successful, depending on the position. Anyway, a young guy, very late teens 19 or so, comes in from one of the other call centers and wants to know if any positions are available in the tech support department (none are). He seems intelligent, personable, etc. Except. He looks like an escapee from the circus. Yes it’s politically incorrect to think this and I’d _never_ dream of saying it, AND in a call-center environment, it doesn’t really matter, so if he was qualified I’d hire him, but… Starting with the hands: He’s tattooed his hands on the back (not the palms as far as I can tell) in solid ball-point pen blue/black. It looks like he’s wearing fingerless gloves. This goes up to the middle of his forearms where the solid blue turns into flame-shaped solid blue. He’s got tattoos on his face…mime-type teardrops from the corner of one eye. I could get past that. However, on one bicep he has, in lurid colors, a petagram with a naked female demon (very \ well developed) squeezing her way out of the center of the star as though she was digging out from underneath the pentagram…her pubic hair is clearly visible. The other arm (also in lurid color) has a Conan-type pulling the hair of a naked snake woman as though Conan was going to initiate/force oral sex upon the snake-woman. Through his white, short sleeved button-up shirt, I can see other tattoos of a similar nature. I keep wondering "What were you thinking? Do you know how hard it’ll be to get a management position? To get hired for any job that interfaces with the public? I understand the need for self-expression, but the…misogynistic overtones of some of your tattoos could very easily be considered as contributing to a “hostile work environment” (and don’t blame me for that, I don’t make the rules.) Why in hell would you screw up your future this way? If nothing else, you’re limiting the hell out of your future opportunities! Is “self expression” worth potentially flushing your future down the toilet? (If the answer is “yes” that’s fine, but…) Look, as I said, I’d hire th’ kid (assuming he was qualified) for a phone position. But if I were in the position to hire him for a sales/management type job, the sexual and anti-woman nature of his tattoos would make me have strong second thoughts unless I found out that I could, as a precondition of hiring, insist that he keep his tattoos covered up. Whatdaya think? Am I a jerk for feeling this way? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/2 "2001-08-28T00:36:47Z")
You’re just jealous because he didn’t make the nekkid chick dance for you. Admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Kbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Kbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kbean)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/3 "2001-08-28T00:40:17Z")
No, I don’t think you’re a being jerk in the least bit. There’s nothing wrong with tattoos in general, but the ones you described were rather disturbing. If he simply had many tattoos that would be one story, but this was clearly not the case. If he was qualified and had a problem with covering up his tattoos, or was unable to realize that they might be offensive to some people, then he shouldn’t be hired. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/4 "2001-08-28T00:41:33Z")
Heck no. [sub]whoops, it’s the Pit[/sub] Fuck no. I was just having this discussion elsewhere on the board. How you look says something about who you are. And if you want to cultivate a look that says to you “I’m a free-thinking individualist,” you need to at least consider that your look may say to others, “I’m a scary lunatic.” I absolutely believe everyone has the right to express themselves, up to and including through their appearance. But everyone _else_ has an equal (and equally important) right to evaluate the people with whom they will interact. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/5 "2001-08-28T00:46:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > \*\*You’re just jealous because he didn’t make the nekkid chick dance for you. Admit it. \*\* Well…a little 😃 Actually, from a technical viewpoint, the Conan-ish one was a _great_ Frazetta swipe. The nekkid demon-chick…well, much more amaturish. And just in case it wasn’t clear enough in the OP, I had no openings and anticipate none for a while (we’re actually overstaffed) so I couldn’t hire the guy for months, regardless. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/6 "2001-08-28T01:08:38Z")
A tattoo is not exempted from the standards of decency just because it’s permanently etched into your body. I don’t think you’d be out of line to consider the implications of the person’s tattos. What if he had a button on his jacket that said, “Fuck you, bitch!”? That would reflect poorly on him, as well, no? ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/7 "2001-08-28T01:22:33Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Fenris:** _ > > But if I were in the position to hire him for a sales/management type job, the sexual and anti-woman nature of his tattoos would make me have strong second thoughts unless I found out that I could, as a precondition of hiring, insist that he keep his tattoos covered up. > > Whatdaya think? Am I a jerk for feeling this way? No. In fact, given your description of the tattoos in question, second thoughts are irrelevant. Out of concern for sexual harrassment laws, it sounds like he would _have_ to keep them covered in order to avoid a potential lawsuit. I wouldn’t make the tattoos a hiring issue, but make it clear that they will not be allowed to be displayed at work. If he has no problem with this, then there is no problem. If he does, he can work somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Cosmopolitan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Cosmopolitan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cosmopolitan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/8 "2001-08-28T01:26:50Z")
Fenris, you’re absolutely in the right. The way we dress/adorn ourselves affects how others view us. Whether or not that’s the way things ought to be is irrelevant, really. It’s the way things are. I’m a college student with a tongue piercing who’s going into teaching. I know that a body piercing will probably count against me in an interview, so I plan to get rid of it when I start job hunting. I’d rather keep it, but I knew the deal going in. If one doesn’t like the idea of conforming to a dress code, one must realize that the job market will be limited. ---
**Author:** ![Revedge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecae2f/32.png) [@Revedge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revedge)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/9 "2001-08-28T02:42:17Z")
I think that his grave mistake wasn’t the tats, it was the fact that he wore a short sleeved shirt when going job hunting. I have a friend who is a police detective. He has so many tats that he would scare a biker. But, when he is dressed for work, none of them show. He looks very professional. Hell, I have a too that I keep covered at work. (I am a professor.) This geek has no clue on how to deal with the real world. There is a time and place for individualism, and job hunting is not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Dragonblink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Dragonblink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonblink)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/10 "2001-08-28T04:22:43Z")
Before I got my tattoos, I thought long and hard about what exactly I wanted and where I wanted to put them, and FOREMOST in my mind was “I have to be able to hide them easily for job interviews.” I’m only 21 years old and I’m studying for a career in translation, I don’t need to look like I just got out of prison. So I have an armband on my bicep and a Celtic knot pentagram on my calf. At my last job I was allowed to show them; at my current job I am not. No big deal. My boss didn’t even know I had tattoos until I came in on my day off in a tank top and shorts. Tattoos on the face and hands are a BAD idea 99% of the time. The guy who owns my favorite tattoo shop has authentic Maori tattoos on his face, but a) he owns a tattoo shop, he won’t be looking for a tech support job any time soon and b) he spent a lot of time and money researching the design and considering the pros and cons of getting it. A number of tattoo artists will try to dissuade you from getting facial or hand tats if they think you haven’t thought it through well enough. The teardrops by the eye, if I’m not mistaken, are a kind of gang or prison tattoo. I forget what it means – killed someone? Know someone who was shot? Went to prison? In any case, he’s a freakin MORON for letting his tats show while he’s looking for a technical job. ---
**Author:** ![custard\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@custard\_dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/custard_dragon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/11 "2001-08-28T04:30:50Z")
> [@](#): > > How you look says something about who you are. Damn right. In this case it says that you have spent time in prison. Both the hands and the teardrops are typical jailhouse tats, especially considering that they are done in pen ink. If this guy isn’t a felon, he lack the common sense necessary to operate in a social envronment. Ask him what he was convicted of, or better yet, whose child did he kill or maim. These assholes who talk about discrimination against those who choose to mutilate themselves undermine efforts to fight the real racism and discrimination out there. Usually they are whiny ass white boys who want an excuse to sit on their ass and complain. I have no problem with those who wear tats, but don’t pretend you are a victim. ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/12 "2001-08-28T04:37:26Z")
Whenever I see facial tattoos, I always wonder how they’re going to look when they’re 80 or 90 years old with wrinkled, loose skin. And those armbands aren’t going to look so cool either, when you get those wattles under your arms. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/13 "2001-08-28T04:45:51Z")
Teardrops mean you went to prison (not just jail), at least to the Mexican community in my area (Dallas, TX). ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/14 "2001-08-28T05:28:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kbean \* > \*\*No, I don’t think you’re a being jerk in the least bit. There’s nothing wrong with tattoos in general, but the ones you described were rather disturbing. If he simply had many tattoos that would be one story, but this was clearly not the case. If he was qualified and had a problem with covering up his tattoos, or was unable to realize that they might be offensive to some people, then he shouldn’t be hired. \*\* Yeah I know what you mean. There was a woman I was interviewing for an assistant’s position and I had to turn her down. She had all the qualifications,(probably the best qualified of all the applicants) and had children to support as a single mother, but she also had a tattoo of an oriental symbol of some kind going up the nape of her neck and it gave the wrong impression for someone meeting business clients in a professional office. People should think before they get their tattoos, at least with respect to placement. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/15 "2001-08-28T05:56:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Badtz Maru \* > \*\*Teardrops mean you went to prison (not just jail), at least to the Mexican community in my area (Dallas, TX). \*\* I asked one of my patients one time, a hispanic gang memeber from El Paso(the psych hospital I worked at got quite a few gang memebers that had parents with insurance, so to avoid jail…). He was an interesting sort, about 15 years old, and had beaten a guy, probably fataly, with baseball bat who trying to kill one of the members of his gang(he didnt stick around to see if they guy lived). Anyway, I asked him about the teardrop thing, and he said that it totally depended on the gang you were a member of. He said that in some gangs, it was jail, in others, it meant you had killed someone, and I believe that there were a couple of other meanings but I just dont remember. In other words, I got the impression that there wasnt really a standards organization for gang tats. Oh, and I have know some people who prefered the “jailhouse ink” look, so they never got any thing but black or blue ink. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/16 "2001-08-28T07:42:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\*And those armbands aren’t going to look so cool either, when you get those wattles under your arms. \*\* Think of them as a diehard excuse to keep pumping iron until you die. Or can afford laser surgery to remove 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/17 "2001-08-28T10:26:47Z")
Yeah, the teardrops on the face would be just as potentially disturbing to me as the tatts on the arms. Apparently the meanings are various, as for example: [http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/prison2.htm](http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/prison2.htm) But regardless of meaning they do have a strong association with prison. And films like _True Believer_ have emphasized some of the more violent connotations. Doesn’t mean this guy had ever done anything even remotely dishonest or wrong, but the association alone would be enough to make some people nervous. Which, as you said, could be crippling in a position like sales. On the other had, perhaps he is bright enough to realize that, which is why he was looking for a phone position 🙂 . - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Kricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f14d63/32.png) [@Kricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kricket)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/18 "2001-08-28T13:53:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > you need to at least consider that your look may say to others, “I’m a scary lunatic.” Oh, I’m seeing a possible sig line here! When I first got my tattoos my hubby told me to make sure that when I got them that they were put in places that I could show them when I wanted and cover them when needed. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/19 "2001-08-28T13:59:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* > > Whatdaya think? Am I a jerk for feeling this way? > > Fenris \*\* Our actions have consequences in the real world. I don’t subscribe to the belief that looks don’t matter. If they didn’t matter then he wouldn’t have spent those many painful hours getting those tattoos. If I was hiring people he’d probably be one of the last qualified people I’d consider for the job. Marc ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442/20 "2001-08-28T16:49:29Z")
I would think it’s permissable to judge someone by the color of his skin, if they’re colors he picked out himself. Well, hell, what does self-expression mean if you don’t want it to be seen as a reflection of yourself? Me, I salk around in too much black and combat boots. If you think that might mean I wouldn’t fit in well in the corporate heirarchy…well, you’d be right. That’s what I was trying to say. As long as this guy wasn’t expecting to be seen differnetly than that, he’s fine. Of course it might be a good idea to hold off on perminant statments about yourself till after you’re 20. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-have-you-done-to-yourself/78442.md?page=2)