# What the Hell is going on in Florida? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110 "2004-08-16T18:34:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/41 "2004-08-17T12:50:11Z")
> [@5 time champ](#): > > Alright, besides **John Mace** and **Sam Stone** , _is there a single conservative here who’s not some loud-mouthed hysterical kneejerk reactionary?_ **Dewey Cheatum Undhow** has always struck me as a reasonable, articulate, and nuanced conservative. **Jodi** , also, although she posts much less frequently in the hard-core political threads. I’m reserving judgment on this **Uncommon Sense** fellow, as I suspect he might begin frothing at the mouth at any moment, purely due his inherent conservativeness. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/42 "2004-08-17T12:54:02Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > To _hell_ with the Moral Majority. They hijacked my party in the 80s. I want it back. I want it back _now_. Take back the right! A-fucking-men! Another Republican/fiscally conservative, states rights, smaller gov’t and all that jazz person who, at least not in this arena, isn’t stark raving mad. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/43 "2004-08-17T12:54:00Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > Why don’t you guys just relax? You’ve got it made, since if Kerry wins, he wins, and if he loses it’ll be because the five or six dozen conspiracy theories you’ve trotted out on this message board cheated him out of the election. I’ve seen this little meme floating around the Dope for a few days now, and it really bothers me. _There were serious problems with how the 2000 election was conducted in Florida_, all of which gave small advantages to the Republican party. **RTFirefly** has given a list of them above. There have already been cases of similar shenanigans in this election that were prevented only because people were paying close attention (that wacky statewide list of felons again). But rather than acknowledge that there were serious problems in 2000, both you and **Shodan** (in another thread) have trotted out this “If Bush wins the Democrats will just claim that he cheated” meme, as if incorrectly removing black people from the voter rolls and accepting military absentee ballots after the deadline has somehow created an environment unfair to the Republicans. It’s a wonderful bit of rhetorical ju-jitsu, but it’s also disingenuous and obfuscatory. If the 2000 election has created an environment in which the president’s brother and other Florida supporters of the Republicans cannot be wholly trusted to hold a fair election without close and constant scrutiny, then whose fault is that? Throwing out the magic bugaboo words “conspiracy theory” doesn’t change what happened four years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/44 "2004-08-17T14:02:13Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > A-fucking-men! > > Another Republican/fiscally conservative, states rights, smaller gov’t and all that jazz person who, at least not in this arena, isn’t stark raving mad. I would so much love to have y’all back in charge of your party. I may disagree with some of your economic ideas and states rights jazz; but at least there is room to compromise and I don’t feel threatened by your position. The Religious Right running the show now scares me on a personal level. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/45 "2004-08-17T14:16:07Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Now, someone jar my memory, but was something similar done for the Democratic National Convention last month? Or is this a tacit admission that more people are _really_ pissed off at George than they are at Kerry? At least here in Denver, yes, some suspected troublemakers and known malcontents were visited by the FBI prior to the Democratic convention. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/46 "2004-08-17T14:22:23Z")
> [@zut](#): > > **Dewey Cheatum Undhow** has always struck me as a reasonable, articulate, and nuanced conservative. **Jodi** , also, although she posts much less frequently in the hard-core political threads. **Dewey Cheatum Undhow**? Well-- yeah, obviously fancy Wall Street law firms don’t hire right-wing nutjobs. But-- apart from **Sam Stone** , **John Mace** , **Dewey Cheatum Undhow** , **Jodi** & **UrbanChic** name me a single conservative here who’s not some loud-mouthed hysterical kneejerk reactionary? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/47 "2004-08-17T14:39:34Z")
There’s some basis for disagreement with even that list, **5 Time**. But we’ve been there and done that. **E-S and UC** , maybe it’s time to consider that the, um, “movement conservatives” now \*are \* the Republican Party. They control the leadership and the agenda, and there isn’t much hope that they’re just going to pack up and leave out of some disagreement. They’ll be happy to have your votes anyway, though. You want “your party” back? Sorry, you ain’t \*gettin’ \* it back. It’s theirs now. So what are you gonna do? If fiscal conservatism is a primary concern, how about giving another look at the only party who’s given you a surplus in the last few generations? If keeping government out of private, personal matters like marriage and sex is critical, how about considering the party that follows through on that concept? Are you really Republicans anymore, as the name is now defined, or are your interests now better represented by somebody else? Are you going to keep supporting people who are acting in opposition to your interests and principles or are you ready to consider alternatives? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/48 "2004-08-17T14:52:13Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Yo, conservative but not incredibly insane over here. Or at least probably not insane. Because I’m finding myself repeating the same phrase over and over again. “You know, we could use a man like Mr. Nixon in the White House again. At least he knew what the hell he was doing.” At least Nixon worked hard, opened China, and brought our boys back from Vietnam. At least he was an openly sadistic bastard. At least he had a history in politics. Admittedly, it was in HUAC next to Tailgunner Joe, but he worked for what he got. > > Anyone think I’m wrong, here? Not that I actually want his blackened soul back on earth, I just think he’d make a better president than the Bush we have. Wrong? No way in hell! For over a quarter of a century, I was sure I’d never again in my life see a President worse than Nixon. I mean, it was just impossible, right? Im-fucking-possible. Yet it isn’t even close. If I could wangle a deal with God or the Devil, I would trade in everything I’ve saved, and start over with the clothes on my back, if we could rewind to January 20, 2001, and have Richard Nixon (as he was in 1970, or 1980, or 1990, you pick) sworn in as President instead of Dubya. The man was evil, but at least he had a brain and a clue. > [@](#): > > To _hell_ with the Moral Majority. They hijacked my party in the 80s. I want it back. I want it back _now_. Take back the right! It isn’t happening, and it can’t and won’t happen. Between the True Believers of the Christian Right, and the ‘screw fiscal prudence, let’s have more tax cuts’ school (who are also True Believers), we’re talking not just a majority of the GOP, but an _overwhelming_ majority, of both the people and the money in the party. Like **Elvis** just said, it’s their party, not yours. And it has been so for 24 years now. That combination of True Believers pretty much took over in 1980; once Reagan beat Anderson in the Illinois primary that year, the handwriting was on the wall. I’d argue that the remaining small-government, fiscal-responsibility, pro-SOCAS Republicans would have far more impact on national politics if they’d break off and form their own party. In a closely divided country, they’d have power as the swing bloc in Congress that they lack as a small, lowly-regarded, but generally obedient faction in the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/49 "2004-08-17T15:16:45Z")
> [@5 time champ](#): > > Alright, besides John Mace and Sam Stone, is there a single conservative here who’s not some loud-mouthed hysterical kneejerk reactionary? > [@](#): > > But-- apart from Sam Stone, John Mace, Dewey Cheatum Undhow, Jodi & UrbanChic name me a single conservative here who’s not some loud-mouthed hysterical kneejerk reactionary? Come, now. Your question it just getting sillier. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/50 "2004-08-17T15:19:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > . > It isn’t happening, and it can’t and won’t happen. Between the True Believers of the Christian Right, and the ‘screw fiscal prudence, let’s have more tax cuts’ school (who are also True Believers), we’re talking not just a majority of the GOP, but an _overwhelming_ majority, of both the people and the money in the party. Like **Elvis** just said, it’s their party, not yours. And it has been so for 24 years now. Well, I’m voting for Kerry, this election, as opposed to what I normally do when I don’t like the Pub up for vote. (Libertarian… helps keep them on the ballot in NY) As for them keeping the party? Nah. I thought the same way you did till I started hearing about some guy from the northeast last summer. He didn’t have a chance, either. But he took on the established power bloc, and all but won. (And defeated the Clinton choice handily, as I understand it.) Two Democratic wins from now… maybe three… and it’ll be time for a new Internet campaign to bring back the Republicans. Because all that’s going to happen is the Moral Majority is going to go more and more batshit crazy over time, as things keep happening that they can’t handle. Gay marriage alone may break them. (I can’t wait for it to break the DOMA… it’ll get them off abortion for a while.) ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/51 "2004-08-17T15:25:24Z")
> [@](#): > > But-- apart from Sam Stone, John Mace, Dewey Cheatum Undhow, Jodi & UrbanChic name me a single conservative here who’s not some loud-mouthed hysterical kneejerk reactionary? That would be me. Now I’ve said some silly things from time to time in the heat of the moment, but all in all I try to maintain balance and perspective. I wish you would do the same. Labeling all “conseratives” as loud-mouthed hysterical knee-jerk reactionaries doesn’t do much for your image. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/52 "2004-08-17T15:28:46Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Come, now. Your question it just getting sillier. Yes, it was a lame attempt at humor, playing off Reg’s _What have the Romans ever done for us?_ scene in **Monty Python’s Life of Brian**. Although I was also trying to make the point that **SDMB** is not as left-leaning as some would have us beleive. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/53 "2004-08-17T15:29:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There’s some basis for disagreement with even that list, **5 Time**. But we’ve been there and done that. > > **E-S and UC** , maybe it’s time to consider that the, um, “movement conservatives” now \*are \* the Republican Party. They control the leadership and the agenda, and there isn’t much hope that they’re just going to pack up and leave out of some disagreement. They’ll be happy to have your votes anyway, though. You want “your party” back? Sorry, you ain’t \*gettin’ \* it back. It’s theirs now. > > So what are you gonna do? If fiscal conservatism is a primary concern, how about giving another look at the only party who’s given you a surplus in the last few generations? If keeping government out of private, personal matters like marriage and sex is critical, how about considering the party that follows through on that concept? Are you really Republicans anymore, as the name is now defined, or are your interests now better represented by somebody else? Are you going to keep supporting people who are acting in opposition to your interests and principles or are you ready to consider alternatives? Excellent points. I remain conservative in the hopes that the party will pull its head out of its ass and wake up to the fiscal problems that our country is facing. Mostly though, I remain conservative for the social issues, - individual responsibility, abortion, gun control, the way we treat small business, how our children are raised, what goes on in the public schools, the legal system, etc. All of these things bend with the pressure of the party that leans on them. I would like them to bend right. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/54 "2004-08-17T15:36:49Z")
> [@5 time champ](#): > > Yes, it was a lame attempt at humor, playing off Reg’s _What have the Romans ever done for us?_ scene in **Monty Python’s Life of Brian**. > Although I was also trying to make the point that **SDMB** is not as left-leaning as some would have us beleive. Thanks for the 'splanation. I have noticed a little more activitiy from the Right in the last few weeks. I think the scales are tipping back towards the center again. For a while there it seemed like the Left had gained near total control of the boards. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/55 "2004-08-17T16:45:11Z")
Thanks, 5 time champ. It’s been a while since I’ve seen that flick so I was whooshed and quite nicely, too. Although with the likes of rjung and reeder floating around you never can tell these days… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/56 "2004-08-17T16:56:09Z")
Can we please see the final schism into the American Republican Front and the Republican Front of America? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/57 "2004-08-17T16:57:29Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Thanks, 5 time champ. It’s been a while since I’ve seen that flick so I was whooshed and quite nicely, too. Although with the likes of rjung and reeder floating around you never can tell these days… That is **5 time champ** ’s main weapon - surprise and fear… ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/58 "2004-08-17T17:04:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Can we please see the final schism into the American Republican Front and the Republican Front of America? So Elvis, are you a democrat or a liberal? And are you in favor of the list of items that you gave as reasons one (like myself) should vote for Kerry? Namely; > [@](#): > > So what are you gonna do? If fiscal conservatism is a primary concern, how about giving another look at the only party who’s given you a surplus in the last few generations? If keeping government out of private, personal matters like marriage and sex is critical, how about considering the party that follows through on that concept? Are you really Republicans anymore, as the name is now defined, or are your interests now better represented by somebody else? Are you going to keep supporting people who are acting in opposition to your interests and principles or are you ready to consider alternatives? If not, then why the support for Kerry? (Probably because he’s not Bush) Would you have been an old school rebublican or base line conservative? Just curious is all. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/59 "2004-08-17T19:27:56Z")
I’d just like to state that I wish the sane part of the Republican party would retake the GOP from the insane nutjobs who are running it now and kick the Coulters and Limbaughs and O’Reillys to the curb, so our nation and bring political discourse down to a level for sane adults. Unfortunately, the odds of that happening are about as good as Rupert Murdoch going on prime-time television, admitting that Fox News is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the Bush White House, and urging everyone to watch PBS instead. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/60 "2004-08-17T19:58:58Z")
**rjung** , you just had to, didn’t you? Couldn’t resist… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110.md?page=4)