# What the Hell is going on in Florida? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110 "2004-08-16T18:34:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/81 "2004-08-19T03:12:05Z")
> [@RTBozofly](#): > > Wasn’t there supposed to be a ‘hundred’ in between ‘a few’ and ‘interns’? Because that’s how many paid protesters [Time Magazine](http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2000/1204/cover_riot.html) said were there. And not outside the building, either, but _inside, on the nineteenth floor, pounding on the doors and windows of the counting room_. > > You know, the counters just **might** have felt a bit physically intimidated. That wasn’t what they’d prepped for, when they came to the office that morning. What the fuck ever. They couldn’t have had the distraction squelched and then resumed the counting at a later date, or god forbid, at a different location? If they really had felt threatened, there were numerous routes they could have taken. I mean, they did go home that night without getting killed on the way to their cars, Jeez. Toughen up guys. **rjungs** link only ID’d about a dozen protestors. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/82 "2004-08-19T03:14:07Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > :rolleyes: > > That’s as stupid as saying, “You got mugged by only three people? You must not have put up much of a fight, then.” This is the first I’ve heard of ‘protestors’ actually accomplishing what they set out to do. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/83 "2004-08-19T06:08:04Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > rjungs link only ID’d about a dozen protestors. Yes, because we all know that if you didn’t see the other hundred-some-odd-folks in that one photograph, they weren’t there. :rolleyes: > [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > This is the first I’ve heard of ‘protestors’ actually accomplishing what they set out to do. We’re not talking protestors, we’re talking about a Republican mob. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > And an almost fanatical devotion to the Dope! 😃 \ Take him out and shoot him. I’ll sign the warrant later. \ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/84 "2004-08-19T10:31:54Z")
> [@Uncommon](#): > > What the fuck ever. They couldn’t have had the distraction squelched and then resumed the counting at a later date, or god forbid, at a different location? Follow the link and read about the politics involved. Unfortunately, the folks charged with upholding the sanctity of a Federal election had to worry about how they’d do in a local election if they enforced the laws. > [@](#): > > If they really had felt threatened, there were numerous routes they could have taken. I mean, they did go home that night without getting killed on the way to their cars, Jeez. Toughen up guys. You know, back in the 1960s, lots of protests took place out of doors. But when they got _inside_ buildings, they were generally effective in shutting things down. And for good reason. > [@](#): > > **rjungs** link only ID’d about a dozen protestors. Wow, it only ID’s about a dozen **by name**!! Proof positive that that was all there were. IOW, you made no effort to ascertain the size of the protest in the links he gave you access to; you just assumed the size of the protest without a cite. It’s not like that. You make an assertion, you back it up. Instead, you blew it; you were off by a multiple of 100, and now you’re backpedaling like crazy. You lose. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/85 "2004-08-19T14:16:58Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Follow the link and read about the politics involved. Wow, it only ID’s about a dozen **by name**!! Proof positive that that was all there were. His direct link was extremely misleading. The photo showed about a dozen folks, all with ID tags on them and what looked like a few reporters. It made no mention of a ‘hundred’ rioters. You’re right, I should have checked out the other reports but **rjung** linked an incomplete story. > [@](#): > > It’s not like that. You make an assertion, you back it up. Instead, you blew it; you were off by a multiple of 100, and now you’re backpedaling like crazy. You lose. You fail to mention that the protestors had a legit gripe. It seemed that the democratic leaning counters were selectively choosing precincts that would favor Gore and made observing the proceedings difficult or impossible. Staging a riot seemed to be the only way to stop the cheating. If it had been the other way around, **rjung, and RT** would have been calling for the counters heads and condoned such actions. For sure. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/86 "2004-08-19T14:27:05Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Staging a riot seemed to be the only way to stop the cheating. This sentence will, I predict, come back to bitch-slap you in the future. > [@](#): > > If it had been the other way around, **rjung, and RT** would have been calling for the counters heads and condoned such actions. For sure. Astounding how you can read the actions of others. Does that work the other way, too? Can I say what you will do in a situation that never existed? Please? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/87 "2004-08-19T14:40:52Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Staging a riot seemed to be the only way to stop the cheating. Huh? 😕 \ ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/88 "2004-08-19T16:11:57Z")
> [@GLWasteful](#): > > This sentence will, I predict, come back to bitch-slap you in the future. Maybe. The protestors were concerned that the ballots were being unfairly handled, interpreted and counted. They tried less demonstrative means but failed. > [@](#): > > Astounding how you can read the actions of others. Does that work the other way, too? Can I say what you will do in a situation that never existed? Please? I’m going on past performances wherein certain members have tended to over-exaggerate things that the right did. Have a gander at all the threads that get started just because GW mispronounces a word and you’ll see what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/89 "2004-08-19T16:21:28Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Huh? 😕 > > \ [Read this article - Washington Post.](http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pgigot/?id=65000673) A few snippets; \*One of the canvassers, a career bureaucrat named David Leahy, had even declared the lack of any vote-counting standard a virtue. He needed “the flexibility,” as his spokeswoman put it, to “look at the totality of the ballot to determine the intent of the voter.” Like other reporters, I had to watch from 10 feet away and strain to hear this subtle, epic search for “intent.” Mr. Leahy would take a ballot and hunt not just for dimples but for any mark at all, even pregnant chads still in their first trimester. I saw him bend or twist several ballots, which can’t be good for chads that have already been machine-counted three times. \* \*Most of these ballots were clearly punched for a Senate candidate and other offices. Only the presidential mark was in doubt. So they weren’t the ballots of seniors too confused or weak to punch through. They might have been those of voters who disliked both presidential candidates. But a partisan vote down the ballot was deemed to be one indication of intent. Every Democrat described this guesswork recounting as “professional” or “fair.” But every Republican was seething. “You should see what they’re calling a dimple,” said Neal Conolly, a mild-mannered New York lawyer who volunteered to spend his vacation here. “It’s the most minor imperfection in the paper. I wouldn’t even call it a crease.” \* \*The tipping point came Wednesday, after the Florida Supreme Court said manual counts must be included, but by a Sunday deadline. The three canvassers reacted first by dropping a complete recount, thus omitting pro-Bush Cuban-American precincts. They would count only the 10,750 ballots that machines had spit out for no presidential vote. These were mostly from Democratic precincts. Then the Three Counting Sages repaired to semi-isolation, forcing TV cameras to watch through a window and keeping reporters 25 feet away. That did it. Street-smart New York Rep. John Sweeney, a visiting GOP monitor, told an aide to “Shut it down,” and semi-spontaneous combustion took over. The Republicans marched on the counting room en masse, chanting “Three Blind Mice” and “Fraud, Fraud, Fraud.” True, it wasn’t exactly Chicago 1968, but these are Republicans. Their normal idea of political protest is filling out the complaint card at a Marriott.\* \*\*\*If Al Gore loses his brazen attempt to win on the dimples, one reason will be that he finally convinced enough Republicans to fight like Democrats. \*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/90 "2004-08-19T16:21:56Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Maybe. The protestors were concerned that the ballots were being unfairly handled, interpreted and counted. They tried less demonstrative means but failed. You are actually attempting to justify the disruption of the counting of votes as a valid political tactic? In this country? Frankly, I’m fucking stunned. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/91 "2004-08-19T16:36:51Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > You are actually attempting to justify the disruption of the counting of votes as a valid political tactic? In this country? Frankly, I’m fucking stunned. Nope, never. The _WAY_ they were being counted. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/92 "2004-08-19T16:38:45Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Maybe. The protestors were concerned that the ballots were being unfairly handled, interpreted and counted. See, though, they didn’t wait until everything was said and done before starting to wail. Hell, they barely waited for it to begin. And I’m sorry, but here in the US one doesn’t riot to get one’s way. Bad form, boorish and decidedly stinking of vigilante justice. Or am I perhaps misunderstanding you? > [@](#): > > They tried less demonstrative means but failed. Like what, precisely? This happened all the way back in 2000. Hell, that was two wars and one attempted disenfranchisement of voters ago. ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/93 "2004-08-19T16:44:21Z")
Quote: Read this article - Washington Post. If it´s from the Post, why does it say Wall Street Journal at the top of the page? And it isn´t an article, it´s an editorial. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/94 "2004-08-19T16:52:59Z")
> [@Mapache](#): > > Quote: Read this article - Washington Post. > If it´s from the Post, why does it say Wall Street Journal at the top of the page? > And it isn´t an article, it´s an editorial. Thanks, I was reading three different aritcles on the subject and linked the right one but headed it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/95 "2004-08-19T16:59:55Z")
> [@GLWasteful](#): > > See, though, they didn’t wait until everything was said and done before starting to wail. Hell, they barely waited for it to begin. And I’m sorry, but here in the US one doesn’t riot to get one’s way. Bad form, boorish and decidedly stinking of vigilante justice. Or am I perhaps misunderstanding you? What? Every re-count kept inching the total Gore count in his favor, how lucky of him. Panic set in. Read the linked articles like **RT** suggested I do. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/96 "2004-08-19T19:36:59Z")
Lucky or _accurate_? The “panic” is understandable, though. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/97 "2004-08-19T20:15:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Lucky or _accurate_? The “panic” is understandable, though. I remember hearing (at the time) that it would be statistically impossible for subsequent recounts to keep favoring the same person time after time. But due to the fact that some (many) of the ballots were being interpreted caused this phenomena to occur. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/98 "2004-08-19T21:42:10Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I remember hearing (at the time) that it would be statistically impossible for subsequent recounts to keep favoring the same person time after time. But due to the fact that some (many) of the ballots were being interpreted caused this phenomena to occur. See there. Instant conspiracy theory. And you were being dismissive of we dumbass liberals earlier. Tsk, tsk. Tsk, tsk indeed. And when the results are coming out so that you are going to lose, and you decide that the best way to stop those results is by rioting, well. . .you’re a boorish ass engaging in bad form and treading dangerously close to vigilantism. D’you see how this works? Wouldn’t matter if those rioting had been liberals, either. Throwing down and acting in a threatening fashion is wrong. Also, what were those “less demonstrative means” that you mentioned earlier? I honestly don’t recall any, but as I said, so very much has happened in the last four years. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/99 "2004-08-20T01:01:30Z")
> [@GLWasteful](#): > > Also, what were those “less demonstrative means” that you mentioned earlier? I honestly don’t recall any, but as I said, so very much has happened in the last four years. Attempts to get court orders and appeals. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110/100 "2004-08-20T03:00:32Z")
And we all know that the process of law is so dull and slow and uncertain. Better to gather a mob and just storm the place, like what all the Gore supporters did to the Supreme Court. You get the idea that for some people the perversion of the Vince Lombardi saw is a basic credo – any thing to win. Principle is after all an ephemeral thing and sometimes inconvenient. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-florida/260110.md?page=6)