# What the hell is Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 30, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581 "2015-07-30T15:21:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/321 "2015-08-28T19:50:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And I would wager exactly the opposite. How can we verify the wagers? I’m guessing you can’t. Legitimately distilling competing worldviews into a bet takes some work. It can be done. But to be meaningful some search, clarification and negotiation is involved. [http://longbets.org/](http://longbets.org/) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/322 "2015-08-28T20:20:08Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Trump claims everyone loves him, except they don’t. His ADHD grunts and rants has made sure the black and latino vote goes to the democrats. You know who do love him? White nationalists. According to the article from the current New Yorker: > **[Donald Trump and the White Nationalists](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/31/the-fearful-and-the-frustrated)** > > By stoking paranoia about immigration, Trump has found a following among far-right extremists. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/323 "2015-08-28T22:31:28Z")
This is a fun read 🙂 [Denial Won't Defeat Trump | RealClearPolitics](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/08/28/denial_wont_defeat_trump_127914.html) The Republican establishment seems to be slowly going through Elisabeth Kubler-Ross’ five stages of grief, with many politicians and pundits unable to get past the first: denial. But Trump’s numbers in the polls have gone steadily up. And if you add his numbers in the Quinnipiac survey to Carson’s, you see that a full 40 percent of Republican voters want their party to nominate for president someone who has never run for office before, let alone held it. … This ought to be enough to shock most of the party establishment into Kubler-Ross’ second stage: anger. Some of our more perspicacious conservative observers have been in stage two for a while, and it’s producing some terrific prose. My favorite so far is the opening line of my colleague George F. Will’s column this week: “Every sulfurous belch from the molten interior of the volcanic Trump phenomenon injures the chances of a Republican presidency.” I’m guessing the party establishment doesn’t ever want to get to the next stage of grief – bargaining – because the guy who would be on the other side of the negotiating table wrote “The Art of the Deal.” And I’m sure they never want to experience the final two stages: depression and acceptance. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/324 "2015-08-28T22:52:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.wsj.com/articles/america-is-so-in-play-1440715262](http://www.wsj.com/articles/america-is-so-in-play-1440715262) I don’t care for sites that require you to register just to read an article. > [@](#): > > I’ve written before about an acquaintance—late 60s, northern Georgia, lives on Social Security, voted Obama in ’08, not partisan, watches Fox News, hates Wall Street and “the GOP establishment.” She continues to be so ardent for Mr. Trump that she not only watched his speech in Mobile, Ala., on live TV, she watched while excitedly texting with family members—middle-class, white, independent-minded—who were in the audience cheering. Is that “the Republican base”? I guess maybe it is, because she texted me Wednesday to say she’d just registered Republican. I asked if she’d ever been one before. Reply: “No, never!!!” “Is that the Republican base”? Um, no, it says right in the same quote that this lady voted for Obama and was not partisan, and hates the GOP establisment, and that she just joined the Party. That pretty solidly defines her as not the Republican base. She’s an independent who is excited by Trump, which, to be fair, turning independents to vote for your party is a good move for your party, _as long as you don’t drive away too many existing party voters._ Just how many independents are there to be picked up, versus party voters to be driven away? Yes, Trump has tapped into a subset of American people, touching on the idea that he’s not a political insider, and he’s most poised to shake things up. And he’s hit certain legitimate concerns of many Americans in a way that is hard to deny. On the other hand, his rhetoric is so polarizing that it also dissuades a lot of Americans. But what shows up right now is the novelty of his brash positions. We will have to see how that stands up over time, especially as the other Republican candidates get whittled down. Do their voters coalesce behind some other non-Trump candidate, or does his support continue to grow? That is the ultimate question that the Republican party has to sort out. Trading anecdotes isn’t going to prove much. **DinoR** ’s anecdote was a legitimate response to the claim by **Starving Artist** that dedicated Republicans would not abandon the party if Trump were chosen. It was a demonstration that at least some would. I doesn’t quantify that amount, but does put the lie to the belief that all the Republican party members would hold their nose and still vote R over Clinton or Biden or Sanders or whomever. But anecdotes can’t quantify that effect, to show how big a hit Trump and the Repubs would take. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/325 "2015-08-28T23:04:16Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > We will have to see how that stands up over time, especially as the other Republican candidates get whittled down. Do their voters coalesce behind some other non-Trump candidate, or does his support continue to grow? That is the ultimate question that the Republican party has to sort out. The latest Quinnipiac poll shows 28% Trump and - an that’s important - 12% Carson. That’s a solid 40% of Republican voters that support non-politician candidates. Add to that 7% that Cruz attracts and you’re definitely getting close to 50. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/326 "2015-08-29T00:36:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The latest Quinnipiac poll shows 28% Trump and - an that’s important - 12% Carson. That’s a solid 40% of Republican voters that support non-politician candidates. Add to that 7% that Cruz attracts and you’re definitely getting close to 50. So who are the other 53% of Republicans going to vote for? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/327 "2015-08-29T00:47:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So who are the other 53% of Republicans going to vote for? The moderate republican, Hillary Clinton. Half: 🙂 and half :dubious: in the end one should remember that if Hillary is a lot like Bill then a lot of liberal ideas are going to be compromised a lot. But I do think many moderate Republicans and independents will remember that history if Trump manages to win the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/328 "2015-08-29T01:21:27Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > You know who do love him? White nationalists. According to the article from the current New Yorker: > > [Donald Trump and the White Nationalists | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/31/the-fearful-and-the-frustrated) Oh yes. They’re not all in lock goose step with Trump but a good number of them have voiced their support. Which means the loon Palin fringe is Trump’s base. What a proud legacy. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/329 "2015-08-29T01:42:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The latest Quinnipiac poll shows 28% Trump and - an that’s important - 12% Carson. That’s a solid 40% of Republican voters that support non-politician candidates. Add to that 7% that Cruz attracts and you’re definitely getting close to 50. How does Cruz connect to this? Is he claiming never to have office before, or merely to be as unprepared as if he had not? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/330 "2015-08-29T02:41:38Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > How does Cruz connect to this? Is he claiming never to have office before, or merely to be as unprepared as if he had not? He tends to wade in a lot of the same pools of voters that are going heavily for Trump/Carson. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/331 "2015-08-29T16:37:11Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > How does Cruz connect to this? Is he claiming never to have office before, or merely to be as unprepared as if he had not? Cruz is living off the loony Tea Party vote. He won the Senate seat pushing himself as a Washington outsider, coming in to fight the Obama liberals and repeal Obamacare. He is not mainstream Republican, but won support because of anti-Obama and anti-Washington business as usual. His claim to fame is shutting down the government over the budget, and filibustering. He gets cred in the “shake things up” crowd. He’s definitely to the far right of a crowd fighting to go as far right as they can. Damn, what about a Trump-Cruz ticket? Part of me wants it to see how easy the Dems can win, part of me is afraid they will win. After all, Cruz is my friggin’ senator. Grrrr. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/332 "2015-08-29T20:06:11Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > And of course, you mean he lacks even _more_ taste, class and honor than they do. So much so that they actually notice. To paraphrase the great Zach Weiner, Trump is so classless he could be a Marxist Utopia. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/333 "2015-08-31T14:19:55Z")
[What Trump is:](http://www.salon.com/2015/08/31/donald_trump_white_americas_anxiety_the_political_throes_of_a_forgotten_country/) > [@](#): > > Instead of comparing him to candidates like Cain (who was relatively unknown, had little media experience, and was unable to consistently raise enough money), it makes more sense to understand Trump as something new. Or new, rather, for the modern era. He’s a demagogic ethno-nationalist of the kind that’s succeeded before in American history, especially during times of great upheaval and dislocation. Think of him as our Huey Long, our George Wallace. > > Besides a genius for self-promotion, what Trump has in common with those two men is this: He appeals to a large swathe of Americans who have not only lived through massive social disruption — the Great Depression and the Civil Rights Movement, respectfully — but who have had their fundamental assumptions about Americanness, and therefore _themselves,_ challenged in the process. When his fans speak of “taking” their country back, they are not being tongue-in-cheek. They are deathly serious. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/334 "2015-08-31T23:41:38Z")
So Trump is to post-LBJ immigration and Obama’s presidency as the Kingfish was to the Depression and George Wallace to integration? Meh. Weak parallel. And the Kingfish was a populist, not a conservative (when those words meant something, I guess). But an interesting possible angle on it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/335 "2015-09-01T02:21:29Z")
… and the Trump steamroller continues: 37% among Republicans. Even (well within the margin of error) with Hillary. > **[Trump, Clinton Lead Primary Matchups. Bush Ties Carson for Runner Up](https://morningconsult.com/2015/08/31/trump-clinton-lead-primary-matchups-bush-ties-carson-for-runner-up/)** > > Real estate mogul Donald Trump has broadened his lead over his rivals for the Republican presidential nomination, a new poll shows, as more Republican voters begin to see the bombastic billionaire in a favorable light. The Morning Consult survey... The Morning Consult survey shows Trump leading among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents with 37 percent of the vote, compared with just nine percent for the second-place finishers, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) and retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson. … Among all registered voters, Clinton continues to lead all of her potential Republican rivals, though narrowly. She leads Bush by only a 43 percent to 41 percent margin, and **she has just a one-point edge — 43 percent to 42 percent** — over Trump. Clinton leads Paul, Walker and Rubio by wider margins. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/336 "2015-09-01T02:31:07Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > And the Kingfish was a populist, not a conservative (when those words meant something, I guess). And isn’t Trump more populist than conservative? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/337 "2015-09-01T02:34:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And isn’t Trump more populist than conservative? Its probably best to say Long (or say Hugo Chavez) were left-wing populists while say Trump or the FN in France are right-wing populists. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/338 "2015-09-01T06:11:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Among all registered voters, Clinton continues to lead all of her potential Republican rivals, though narrowly. She leads Bush by only a 43 percent to 41 percent margin, and **she has just a one-point edge — 43 percent to 42 percent** — over Trump. Clinton leads Paul, Walker and Rubio by wider margins. Those numbers will of course change dramatically once Trump is inevitably out of the picture. I would venture a guess that the real surprises may be in the Democratic camp. Like Hillary once more losing the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/339 "2015-09-01T17:21:25Z")
I’m surprised that Trump’s championing of Palin, to the point of threatening to appoint her to some unnamed position, hasn’t had negative repercussions. I thought she had more or less lost all of whatever credibility she once had. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/340 "2015-09-01T18:41:19Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I’m surprised that Trump’s championing of Palin, to the point of threatening to appoint her to some unnamed position, hasn’t had negative repercussions. I thought she had more or less lost all of whatever credibility she once had. Not with his base. She’s still a rock star in those circles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581.md?page=18)