# What the hell is Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 30, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581 "2015-07-30T15:21:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/361 "2015-09-03T12:26:19Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > [Darth Vader voice]The spin is strong with this one.[/Darth Vader voice] Spin? Why do liberals believe that denying reality somehow refutes it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/362 "2015-09-03T13:55:45Z")
[The shocking truth about Donald Trump: He’s actually the least terrifying GOP candidate](http://www.salon.com/2015/09/03/the_shocking_truth_about_donald_trump_hes_actually_the_least_terrifying_gop_candidate/) > [@](#): > > This is because Donald Trump isn’t really a part of the GOP. He doesn’t depend on corporate funding and is more concerned with his own ego than the party he is currently running in. While his unfiltered remarks have gotten all of the media’s attention, he has also made certain comments that would have probably been enough to kill any other GOP candidates campaign. > > Take, for example, his defense of Planned Parenthood. In the midst of the hit job on the women’s health organization, as every other candidate was jumping on the bandwagon to defund the entire organization, Trump correctly said that the abortion services were a very small part of Planned Parenthood, and that they do undeniably important work for women. Compare this to the supposedly moderate Jeb Bush, who said that the organization is “not actually doing women’s health issues. They’re involved in something way different than that,” which [PolitiFact.com](http://PolitiFact.com) fittingly rated “Pants on Fire.” > > When it comes to economic issues, Trump is also very different than his GOP competitors, and is more or less running against the GOP orthodoxy when it comes to taxes. Last week he almost sounded like a progressive when talking about the tax code: > > > [@](#): > > > > “I would change it. I would simplify it. I would take carried interest out, and I would let people making hundreds of millions of dollars a year pay some tax, because right now they are paying very little tax and I think it’s outrageous. I want to lower taxes for the middle class.” > > When asked about paying more taxes himself, he affirmed his willingness: > > > [@](#): > > > > “I do very well, I don’t mind paying some taxes. The middle class is getting clobbered in this country. You know the middle class built this country, not the hedge fund guys, but I know people in hedge funds that pay almost nothing and it’s ridiculous, OK?” > > Compare this to the basic GOP talking point of lowering all taxes, including those for the hedge funds guys. When Rand Paul and Ben Carson come out with a flat tax program, they promote it is a gift to all taxpayers — especially the middle class — but really it is a gift to the richest of the rich. Trump is running against this GOP dogma and the creepy Grover Norquist’s “Taxpayer Protection Pledge,” which has long had a hold on the GOP. Whether a candidate promising to raise taxes on the ultra-rich will be able to withstand this force will be interesting to see. > > Beyond these issues, Trump has opposed cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and also, as was made so very clear at the first debate, previously supported universal healthcare and opposed the war in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/363 "2015-09-03T14:01:10Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Spin? > > Why do liberals believe that denying reality somehow refutes it? **SA’s** rant about “social justice warriors” as “the speech and thought police” has no acquaintance with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/364 "2015-09-03T14:20:07Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Spin? > > Why do liberals believe that denying reality somehow refutes it? The answer is simple: it allows them to deny responsibility for the harm they’ve caused, and to ignore the future consequences of the things they push for. Prior to discovering this board I used to wonder at how for every thing liberals made better they made ten others worse, and why they were so blind to that. But now that I’ve found this place and have better insight into the liberal mind I realize they aren’t blind to the negative consequences of their actions, they simply don’t give a shit! This point was driven home to me one day by **Lynn Bodoni** , who stated flatly that she didn’t care how many died or had their lives destroyed because of crime and drugs since the sixties because now she could have her own checking account. Not only was her premise was wrong in the first place, but even if it wasn’t…millions die vs. personal checking account? Seems a little…disproportionate. But that’s that’s the way it goes in liberal land. As long as the burr under their particular saddle gets removed, they don’t particularly care if the horse runs off the cliff. And denial of reality gives them the excise they need to proceed without caution, and to disavow the damage done when they get their way. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/365 "2015-09-03T14:29:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > This point was driven home to me one day by **Lynn Bodoni** , who stated flatly that she didn’t care how many died or had their lives destroyed because of crime and drugs since the sixties because now she could have her own checking account. Low blow dissing a dead woman. But no doubt your remembering correctly and keeping everything in context. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/366 "2015-09-03T15:29:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The answer is simple: it allows them to deny responsibility for the harm they’ve caused, and to ignore the future consequences of the things they push for. > > Prior to discovering this board I used to wonder at how for every thing liberals made better they made ten others worse, and why they were so blind to that. But now that I’ve found this place and have better insight into the liberal mind I realize they aren’t blind to the negative consequences of their actions, they simply don’t give a shit! > > This point was driven home to me one day by **Lynn Bodoni** , who stated flatly that she didn’t care how many died or had their lives destroyed because of crime and drugs since the sixties because now she could have her own checking account. > > Not only was her premise was wrong in the first place, but even if it wasn’t…millions die vs. personal checking account? Seems a little…disproportionate. > > But that’s that’s the way it goes in liberal land. As long as the burr under their particular saddle gets removed, they don’t particularly care if the horse runs off the cliff. > > And denial of reality gives them the excise they need to proceed without caution, and to disavow the damage done when they get their way. I’m afraid your ability to read the minds of liberals is as feeble as your ability to read the minds of black people. No, this is not what most liberals believe and no, most black people are much, much happier and feel much, much safer today than in the 50s when they were subject to random violence and oppression on the whims of any white authority figure (or just random white person) who happened to be nearby. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/367 "2015-09-03T15:44:08Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Low blow dissing a dead woman. I wasn’t dissing her at all. I was merely repeating a comment she made to me on a public message board which she was perfectly happy to be seen by all. If anything, my quoting of what she said was a compliment because she was willing to at least be honest about her attitude rather than trying to hide behind “because racism” which is the usual trope trotted out whenever someone criticizes what life in this country has become. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > But no doubt your remembering correctly and keeping everything in context. :rolleyes: Certainly. You can look it up if you doubt me…not that it would make the slightest difference in your or anyone else’s mind if what I related was posted word for word (which it pretty much was). ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/368 "2015-09-03T16:03:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m afraid your ability to read the minds of liberals is as feeble as your ability to read the minds of black people. No, this is not what most liberals believe and no, most black people are much, much happier and feel much, much safer today than in the 50s when they were subject to random violence and oppression on the whims of any white authority figure (or just random white person) who happened to be nearby. yeah, yeah, yeah…you’ve talked to reams of nebulous “old black people” who disavow all my views on how safe life is for a black kid now vs. the fifties and sixties. :rolleyes: And of course we’ve had your assurance (since walked back) that 60% of all black kids today go to college.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: But how many ‘old black people’ have you talked to whose kids fell into gang life, drug life and thug life, and wound up addicted, dead or in prison. Or whose kids were killed by other kids who’d fallen into that life? I talked once before about a black friend from work who grew up in Compton and is the only surviving sibling out of the five he started with. He explained to me once that in the neighborhood where he grew up there were only two ways to avoid being in a gang: one was to have had a family member killed by a gang member, and the other was to have outstanding athletic ability, and therefore recognized as someone who was going somewhere. Other than that you had to be in a gang to survive. I doubt very much the ‘old black people’ you allegedly talked to had family members caught up in gang life, or found themselves trapped at home night after night afraid to leave their homes. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/369 "2015-09-03T16:25:47Z")
[Vox](http://www.vox.com/2015/9/2/9248963/donald-trump-index-fund) ran the numbers on Trump’s supposed business genius. Had he invested in index funds, he would be worth 13 Billion. He isn’t. “But the exact numbers aren’t the point. The point is that after decades of touting his business acumen, his ability to negotiate tough deals and spot good investments, and after spending this entire campaign season arguing that he’s qualified for the presidency based on his skills in the market, Trump nonetheless has an investment record that at best roughly matches and at worst underperforms the market. He did only as well or possibly worse than a retiree with a Vanguard 401(k) did.” ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/370 "2015-09-03T16:33:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The answer is simple: it allows them to deny responsibility for the harm they’ve caused, and to ignore the future consequences of the things they push for. > > Prior to discovering this board I used to wonder at how for every thing liberals made better they made ten others worse, and why they were so blind to that. But now that I’ve found this place and have better insight into the liberal mind… I’ve been a life-long Democrat, and have become utterly disgusted with the liberal attitude that any and every person who can’t (or won’t even try to) “succeed” in life MUST be some sort of victim. It is becoming apparent that there is no reason to vote Dem again as long as I believe in the concept of Personal Responsibility, and don’t believe that the solution to every problem is to throw more money at the symptoms. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/371 "2015-09-03T16:37:32Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > I’ve been a life-long Democrat, and have become utterly disgusted with the liberal attitude that any and every person who can’t (or won’t even try to) “succeed” in life MUST be some sort of victim. There is literally no one who believes this supposed attitude. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/372 "2015-09-03T16:39:52Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > It is becoming apparent that there is no reason to vote Dem again as long as I believe in the concept of Personal Responsibility . . . There is certainly no reason to vote Pub as long as you believe in the concept of Personal Responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/373 "2015-09-03T16:53:08Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > I’ve been a life-long Democrat, and have become utterly disgusted with the liberal attitude that any and every person who can’t (or won’t even try to) “succeed” in life MUST be some sort of victim. It is becoming apparent that there is no reason to vote Dem again as long as I believe in the concept of Personal Responsibility, and don’t believe that the solution to every problem is to throw more money at the symptoms. But you decided to stop being a Democrat before you began posting here. So we’ll just have to take your word for it… ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/374 "2015-09-03T16:53:54Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > I’ve been a life-long Democrat, and have become utterly disgusted with the liberal attitude that any and every person who can’t (or won’t even try to) “succeed” in life MUST be some sort of victim. It is becoming apparent that there is no reason to vote Dem again as long as I believe in the concept of Personal Responsibility, and don’t believe that the solution to every problem is to throw more money at the symptoms. Very well said. Things are going on now that were unimagined by Democrats of previous generations. To the liberal mind there just never seems to be a point where enough is enough. It’s just push and push and push with no end in sight and no goal too extreme. I think this is a large part of why Trump is drawing support from across the political spectrum. Things have just gone way too far and most people no longer feel the country is moving in the right direction and no one but Trump seems willing to do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/375 "2015-09-03T17:11:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And of course we’ve had your assurance (since walked back) that 60% of all black kids today go to college.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: I know you’re unable to accept facts that dispute your pre-conceived “50s America was awesome!” notions, but I showed with statistics that black kids today are much, much more likely to go to college than black kids in past decades. This is a fact that was demonstrated with cited statistics. > [@](#): > > But how many ‘old black people’ have you talked to whose kids fell into gang life, drug life and thug life, and wound up addicted, dead or in prison. Or whose kids were killed by other kids who’d fallen into that life? Quite a few, actually. I’ve known and spoken to many black people, including black people in my family. > [@](#): > > I talked once before about a black friend from work who grew up in Compton and is the only surviving sibling out of the five he started with. He explained to me once that in the neighborhood where he grew up there were only two ways to avoid being in a gang: one was to have had a family member killed by a gang member, and the other was to have outstanding athletic ability, and therefore recognized as someone who was going somewhere. Other than that you had to be in a gang to survive. I doubt very much the ‘old black people’ you allegedly talked to had family members caught up in gang life, or found themselves trapped at home night after night afraid to leave their homes. Right. I’m able to recognize that things aren’t better _in every single way_ today – that in some small aspects, like the lack of gang violence, some things were better in the past. But in general, things are much better for black people today. In the 50s and 60s, there was little to no chance of escaping poverty for black people in the South if they were born into poverty. Rather than black gang violence, they faced violence and terrorism from white racist groups (or gangs, if you want), or individual white racists. In the 50s and 60s, most black kids had virtually no chance of going to college. Now, they have a much, much better chance. Black kids who graduate high school have up to 60% chance of going to college nowadays – that’s a big, big improvement – a great advancement for America. In terms of having a chance at college, education in America is much, much better for black people today than in the 50s. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/376 "2015-09-03T17:12:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Very well said. Things are going on now that were unimagined by Democrats of previous generations. To the liberal mind there just never seems to be a point where enough is enough. It’s just push and push and push with no end in sight and no goal too extreme. I think this is a large part of why Trump is drawing support from across the political spectrum. Things have just gone way too far and most people no longer feel the country is moving in the right direction and no one but Trump seems willing to do anything about it. This is not the “liberal mind”, except perhaps in right-wing fantasy-land. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/377 "2015-09-03T17:16:27Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [Vox](http://www.vox.com/2015/9/2/9248963/donald-trump-index-fund) ran the numbers on Trump’s supposed business genius. Had he invested in index funds, he would be worth 13 Billion. He isn’t. Exactly what I thought, a totally piece of shit article. Who cares what Fred Trump’s wealth was in 1974? It was his money, not Donald’s. Donald Trump came into a hundred million dollar inheritance when his father died in the late nineties. He had become a hugely successful builder and businessman by the late eighties and had achieved a wealth of approx two billion at that time. Due to various factors his business went south and he lost almost everything by the early eighties, narrowly avoiding personal bankruptcy at that time. He then began rebuilding his empire and to achieve his second multi-billion in wealth which brings us to where we are now. Anyone using a shred of critical thinking should be able to see through that ludicrous article after the first paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/378 "2015-09-03T17:16:33Z")
What’s the point of the ridiculous fantasy-land straw-man stereotype about liberals? Does anyone truly believe that liberals, including liberal soldiers and sailors, liberal doctors and engineers, liberal truck drivers and laborers, liberal teachers and clergy, don’t believe in hard work? That these folks believe that no one is responsible for their actions? That everyone in a tough situation has done nothing to bring it on themselves? That there is no such thing as personal responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/379 "2015-09-03T18:10:17Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > I’ve been a life-long Democrat, and have become utterly disgusted with the liberal attitude that any and every person who can’t (or won’t even try to) “succeed” in life MUST be some sort of victim. It is becoming apparent that there is no reason to vote Dem again as long as I believe in the concept of Personal Responsibility, and don’t believe that the solution to every problem is to throw more money at the symptoms. Since we are talking about Trump, because he is an anti-vaxxer he clearly then thinks that people should not have any responsibility to protect other people by vaccinating their kids. Also since Trump is a climate change denier he does not think that people like him should not have any responsibility whatsoever, first with the costs of dealing early with the issue that are cheap in comparison to the costs we would get by doing nothing. > **[Citi report: slowing global warming would save tens of trillions of dollars |...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2015/aug/31/citi-report-slowing-global-warming-would-save-tens-of-trillions-of-dollars)** > > Dana Nuccitelli: A report from America’s 3rd-largest bank asks why we’re not transitioning to a low-carbon economy If we make a concerted effort in limiting our emissions of greenhouse gases then the costs will not be monumental. If nothing is done early, the costs involved in the adaptation (that he also denies it will be needed) will be much higher. And then for sure Trump thinks that there will be no responsibility for the victims that will come by continue to incite a good chunk of his supporters to twist the laws and use them to abuse legal residents and citizens that just so happen to be of the “wrong” color. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/380 "2015-09-03T18:51:18Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > I’ve been a life-long Democrat, and have become utterly disgusted with the liberal attitude that any and every person who can’t (or won’t even try to) “succeed” in life MUST be some sort of victim. It is becoming apparent that there is no reason to vote Dem again as long as I believe in the concept of Personal Responsibility, and don’t believe that the solution to every problem is to throw more money at the symptoms. You have a rather cartoonish view of Democrats. What you describe isn’t said by any Democrat I know. This Democrat believes in personal responsibility, but I also believe that the game is heavily rigged in favor of the wealthy. Republicans want to widen the chasm, Democrats want to level the playing field. Republicans think that if we only let the wealthy pay less tax, the rest of us unworthy hoi polloi will have undreamed of prosperity appear like the dewfall. Democrats want voters to choose them, Republicans want to choose their voters. Republicans depend on ginning up fear of the other- whether it be Muslim or Mexican or black. Somebody is going to take your stuff away. There is no reason any person of intelligence who is not in the top 1% should vote Republican. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581.md?page=20)