# What the hell is Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 30, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581 "2015-07-30T15:21:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/81 "2015-07-31T15:57:52Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > I am a Divine Right Royalist ( no joke ) and I find democracy hilarious. > > And also doomed, same as every other thing that has come and gone, including monarchy. Not because of flaws, but because — opposed to the teleological presentism of people living today, which is the same as that of any ancestors in their now — there’s no inevitability or design for ‘progress’ innate in the system; and any change to human behaviour you make is temporary. > This is democracy’s end-game. Spengler foretold it would be followed by Caesarism; he was generally right. Whether Trump will be that fake hero, or whether he will be merely as mundane as his predecessors is unknowable: all one can say is that he is now, to the populist inchoate inarticulate right ‘_ **Our Great Man** _’ as much as that fucker Henry of Guise was to the catholic Parisians, and Destiny awaits. > > He matches the ever-increasing vulgar culture of America, as the creeps in my country match our growing vulgarity, _und so weiter_ in each modern state. > As a royalist I despised Napoleon III, but I have always felt he was exactly what best pleased France ( until the debacle — when they turned on him and that regime ): vulgar he was, although not as repellently so as his great uncle, but he matched them perfectly: Trump now mirrors the USA. And if you think not, explain his GOP rivals and why so few professional politicians are in any way cultured and urbane ? > > Mostly the right promise to cut taxes and make the poor squeal, pleasing the mob; whilst the left talk condescend and berate those disagreeing with their sanctimony, as Miss Walsh above. > > Mr. Trump supports the minimum wage, a replacement universal healthcare system, abortion rights, and taxing the wealthy. He may yet be a plebeian leader against the Optimates, as much as Julius Caesar was; or he may be a GOP hack in the end, but he definitely may win. > > And that is fucking hilarious. > > The most hilarious result of democracy is that the losers, on any side — who have acclaimed the People Choosing — always seem unhappy with the result, which if they believe in The People, should be sacrosanct to them. He has zero chance of winning. The fact that it is the loud angry idiots that support him is the reason he can’t win. There is a reason neither party has any plans to ever listen to the loud angry idiots in any issue ever, they are wrong about everything. Republicans will continue to try to milk them for their money and votes but actually listening to them would destroy the party, they know this, Democrats know this, Trump knows this. People like Trump will continue to rile them up because it’s beneficial to them, just as Palin did before him to great (monetary, not political) success. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/82 "2015-07-31T16:24:15Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > US total annual media ad spending is $180B. That’s just ads, not all of marketing. Probably have to add 50% to cover all marketing spending. That extra $3-6B or so that you get during elections ($3B for off-years, $6B for presidential) is just a tiny blip. Maybe 1% of all marketing activity. We’re not debating the size of the blip, we’re debating whether this sort of thing is good. You suggest that it’s not a problem because it’s jobs. I’m not saying it’s a lot of jobs, I’m saying it’s human activity that could be spent toward more productive means, that it’s a waste of effort, and therefore a problem. **Claverhouse** , you say that you’re a divine-rights royalist (“no joke!”). I disagree. If the alternative is that I’m supposed to take your philosophy seriously, it’s absolutely a joke. > [@Claverhouse](#): > > The most hilarious result of democracy is that the losers, on any side — who have acclaimed the People Choosing — always seem unhappy with the result, which if they believe in The People, should be sacrosanct to them. What’s making you giggle isn’t a contradiction in democracy, it’s your fundamental misunderstanding of the benefit of democracy. Nobody proponent of democracy with two brain cells to rub together believes that everyone ought to be pleased with the result of every election. That’s not what democracy is about. You may do well to read more about political systems. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/83 "2015-07-31T16:29:54Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > We’re not debating the size of the blip, we’re debating whether this sort of thing is good. You suggest that it’s not a problem because it’s jobs. I’m not saying it’s a lot of jobs, I’m saying it’s human activity that could be spent toward more productive means, that it’s a waste of effort, and therefore a problem. There is an enormous amount of human activity that is not “productive” (which is subjective, anyway, so what is “productive” to me may not be so to you) and is a “waste of effort” (also subjective). Political campaigns are a tiny, TINY portion of that amount. ---
**Author:** ![greengood67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@greengood67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greengood67)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/84 "2015-07-31T16:30:58Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > I can’t sort him out so I’d like some objective opinions about the following: > > He’s bombastic, but I am loathe to call him stupid. I reckon him to be cut from the same cloth as [P T Barnum](http://nlcatp.org/28-most-famous-pt-barnum-quotes/), believing with all his head “There’s no such thing as bad publicity.” I also don’t believe he wants to be president because he’s got too many better things to do for himself. Which leaves me: > > 1. He’s a stealth Democrat intent on shattering the Republican party. Probably not the case unless he’s turning hyperbolic trollery into high art. > > 2. He is wanting to shock the Republican party & its base back into reality so they can field some actual competent opposition to the Democratic party. Let’s face it, this election is shaping up to be the Democrats’ to lose, which means it’s going to be Hillary’s or Bernie’s White House, which means if Bernie continues to piss Americans off at the oligarchy then Hillary is out. Bernie’s philosophies–thoughtfulness, education, regulation & disruption of financial giants–run counter to what makes Trump rich. > > 3. He is shaking the already fragile structure of the Republican party in an attempt to destroy it. Get it out of the way so something new and not beset by idiots and lunatics can take its place–Maybe a fiscally conservative, but visionary and positive movement that is more focused on uniting the country than in perpetuating division and nonproductivity. > > Something else? I just refuse to believe he is actually as obtuse as he is behaving in the campaign. Taking the most offensive talking points, turning up the volume to 11and rebroadcasting them…this is not how you become rich. He’s playing at something, and it’s not just trolling for its own sake because it’s costing him money and ties. That’s funny, I was positing the stealth Democrat theory to a friend of mine last week. It would be a rather cunning plan, and kind of funny, but would surely backfire. Would be just one more in the lengthening list of sad commentaries on our government these days. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/85 "2015-07-31T16:37:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There is an enormous amount of human activity that is not “productive” (which is subjective, anyway, so what is “productive” to me may not be so to you) and is a “waste of effort” (also subjective). Political campaigns are a tiny, TINY portion of that amount. Debating with people who constantly move goalposts is an even tinier portion, but I regret those wasted minutes as well :). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/86 "2015-07-31T16:42:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Debating with people who constantly move goalposts is an even tinier portion, but I regret those wasted minutes as well :). I have absolutely no problem with you eschewing activities you don’t consider “productive”. I also have absolutely no problem with people pursuing activities I don’t consider “productive”. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/87 "2015-07-31T16:53:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > One of the areas of conflict between Trump and his wife at the time Ivana was that she wanted to be the social butterfly, hosting dinners and attending society events, whereas Donald wasn’t interested at all in hobnobbing with the society crowd and preferred to spend all of his time on business - which is exactly what he did. > > Trump has never been a social butterfly and has always been a workaholic. I remember reading at the time that one of his acquaintances described him as having no interest in his personal life at all, that he slept only four hours a night, and either spent all his time working, or on call during those rare times he wasn’t in the office. The main area of conflict was Marla Maples, the 26 year old Donald began “dating” while he was married to Ivana. I read him opine that women became less attractive as they age–but men do not. Ivana practically went bionic trying to achieve the look of youth–but he preferred a new model. Men & women both age. Some age better than others–Donald’s ridiculous “hair” & weird makeup show the sort he is. His wealth is the only reason he’s been able to keep trading in women for younger ones… ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/88 "2015-07-31T17:26:44Z")
In the words of Nelly, “what good is all the fame if you ain’t fuckin’ the models?” ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/89 "2015-07-31T17:28:19Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > **Claverhouse** , you say that you’re a divine-rights royalist (“no joke!”). I disagree. If the alternative is that I’m supposed to take your philosophy seriously, it’s absolutely a joke. What nonsense. Is there any reason I should value your opinion, or you mine ? Yours is _temporarily_ on top, but death equals everything out. > [@](#): > > What’s making you giggle isn’t a contradiction in democracy, it’s your fundamental misunderstanding of the benefit of democracy. Nobody proponent of democracy with two brain cells to rub together believes that everyone ought to be pleased with the result of every election. That’s not what democracy is about. > > You may do well to read more about political systems. Again, pure stupidity. I did not claim the losers should be _pleased_; I claimed that if sincere in their belief the People should decide, then they ought to accept any outcome the People decided. If in my system the wicked old King tyrannically decides; and if in yours you say the People are the source of power and government — just as do the communists, the fascists and the Palinites — then when you reject the People’s decision you are doing violence to your innermost values and am left with mere oligarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/90 "2015-07-31T17:59:27Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Again, pure stupidity. I did not claim the losers should be _pleased_ Do you realize we can scroll up? > [@you](#): > > The most hilarious result of democracy is that the losers, on any side — who have acclaimed the People Choosing — always seem unhappy with the result > [@](#): > > I claimed that if sincere in their belief the People should decide, then they ought to accept any outcome the People decided. No, that’s not what you claimed. Indeed, if you look at democracy, all its major proponents DO accept the outcome people decide, except as limited by a belief in a constitutional structure adjudicated by the judicial branch. At this point, however, I’m no more convinced that you’re going to keep goalposts still than I’m convinced that Terr will. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/91 "2015-07-31T18:29:06Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Is there ever anything in the society pages about Trump hanging with friends? Does he have any? He has the best friends money can buy. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/92 "2015-08-01T00:28:52Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Putin, shirtless and yelling in Russian, tears off Trump’s toupee and stuffs it in his (Trump’s) mouth, Isn’t the Trump hair a sophisticated combover? That might hurt. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/93 "2015-08-01T00:32:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well he took his father’s $100M and turned it into (according to his disclosure doc) $10B. That’s pretty good. I stand corrected. I had assumed he was worth less than a billion. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/94 "2015-08-01T00:42:02Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I stand corrected. I had assumed he was worth less than a billion. I should correct myself - in the beginning, he took at most a few $mil from his father. He did inherit $100 to $200mil, but that was in 1999, way after he made a lot more than that already. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/95 "2015-08-01T00:49:39Z")
Trump is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Trump is a wreath of pretty flowers, which smell _bad_. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/96 "2015-08-01T22:09:30Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Diamonds. I made it diamonds. Hearts was led. It’s your turn. Damn, I meant to double. Too late now. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/97 "2015-08-01T23:50:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well he took his father’s $100M and turned it into (according to his disclosure doc) $10B. That’s pretty good. That 10B number is according to him, which no one believes. Forbes lists it as [4B](http://www.forbes.com/profile/donald-trump/). His inheritance was 200 million. Turning 200 million into 4 billion given a few decades, in the very industry that your daddy laid the groundwork, is not all that challenging. Not a particularly impressive rate of return even if he wasn’t just following in daddy’s footsteps. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/98 "2015-08-02T00:23:54Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > That 10B number is according to him, which no one believes. Forbes lists it as [4B](http://www.forbes.com/profile/donald-trump/). His inheritance was 200 million. His inheritance was in 1999. He was worth way more than that by then. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/99 "2015-08-02T00:46:47Z")
Trump Tower and Trump’s palatial apartment in it, _The Art of the Deal_ and his purchase of Adnan Khoshoggi’s yacht all occurred more than a decade before Trump got that inheritance. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/100 "2015-08-02T01:14:18Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well he took his father’s $100M and turned it into (according to his disclosure doc) $10B. That’s pretty good. Correction: It was $10 billion (or to be more precise TEN BILLION DOLLARS) on his _press release_. The FCC disclosure docs gave something under $2 billion, which the press release emphasized was due to some investments being capped at $50 million. Fair enough. The best estimate is probably that of Forbes, which is about $4 billion. Doesn’t really change the thrust of your argument, but still. > [@Terr](#): > > Almost all of that campaign money translates to jobs. Jobs for printers. Jobs for pollsters. Jobs for newspapers. Jobs for television/cable networks. Jobs for convention centers. etc. etc. So what is the problem? That only applies when the economy has excess capacity. Which it does. But it may not a year from now: the Fed is aiming to raise rates within the next 6 months. At any rate in a year it will roughly be a case of the GOP billionaires giveith, while the Fed taketh away. In other words the crowding out of investment. Which is sort of a bummer as I prefer interest rate sensitive things like cars, housing and capital investment over robo-calling. Then again, nails on blackboards are also better than robocalling, so there’s that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581.md?page=6)