# What the hell is Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 30, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581 "2015-07-30T15:21:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/121 "2015-08-02T16:26:03Z")
Trump didn’t start with a few hundred million and he didn’t continue his dad’s business. He started relatively small, leveraging his successes to finance new projects, and went in a completely different direction than his father, who mostly built large apartment complexes in Brooklyn and Queens. And again, the couple hundred million he inherited came more than a decade after Trump Tower, _The Art of the Deal_ and many other successes. He was also 53 or 54 years old by then. He didn’t start out with two hundred million so your ROI figures are meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/122 "2015-08-02T16:36:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Trump didn’t start with a few hundred million and he didn’t continue his dad’s business. He started relatively small, leveraging his successes to finance new projects, and went in a completely different direction than his father, who mostly built large apartment complexes in Brooklyn and Queens. > > And again, the couple hundred million he inherited came more than a decade after Trump Tower, _The Art of the Deal_ and many other successes. He was also 53 or 54 years old by then. He didn’t start out with two hundred million so your ROI figures are meaningless. How did he finance those early projects? Oh, hid dad financed them. And had all the connections what with it being his industry and all. You and I have very different definitions for “completely different direction”. He took over his dad’s mega successful real estate empire. Paris Hilton didn’t make her money in hotels. Must be nice to start in between third base and home plate. Turning a couple hundred million into a few billion is in no way impressive. Hell, when these NFL guys worth 100 billion manage to blow it all, it’s a story because it seems so impossible to screw that up. So, Trump managed to not screw up a few hundred million. Don’t make him a good business man. And, technically, he went bankrupt four times. Many people lost a lot of money in his many implosions of his dad’s business. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/123 "2015-08-02T16:59:00Z")
At the time of Fred Trump’s death in 1999 his wealth was estimated to be around $250 - $300 million. So he was worth nowhere near $200 million at the time Donald Trump was starting out. Yeah, Trump benefitted by his education, his drive, his intelligence, his interest in the business, his father’s experience and connections. So what? He took the ball and ran with it and achieved success undreamed of by his father. And he did it twice. And yes, he took a completely different direction than his father. Fred wanted no part of Manhattan and Donald made it his bitch (to use today’s charming vernacular). If Trump hadn’t gone in a completely different direction he’d have been building apartment complexes in the outer boroughs like his father did. Read _The Art of the Deal_ sometime and learn how Trump really built his business in the early days. Then you won’t be coming in here making all these ignorant assertions you’re cluttering up the thread with. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/124 "2015-08-02T18:33:39Z")
My take is that if your investments earn the market rate of return (inclusive of risk) or even somewhat less, then you are a competent businessman. Beating the market is hard. But Trump hasn’t done that: his investors have regularly taken a bath. I would characterize him an excellent salesperson, self promoter and negotiator. (Trump’s book emphasizes self promotion, so that term isn’t wholly derogatory). Most of his fortune is tied up in property development: only a slice of it is entrepreneurial. And much of that has now been taken away from him by Univision et al. Contrast with the entrepreneurial Paris Hilton, via Wikipedia: “She has parlayed her media fame into perfumes and a fashion line with her endorsement; her fragrances have reportedly earned $1.5 billion. There are 44 Paris Hilton stores worldwide, with products including perfumes, handbags, watches and footwear. Hilton earns over $10 million a year from product sales[4][5] and, as of 2005, was paid about $300,000 for appearances in clubs and events.[6]” Not bad, really. But I’m going to go out on a limb and say that she is not currently Presidential material. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/125 "2015-08-02T18:36:22Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Not bad, really. But I’m going to go out on a limb and say that she is not currently Presidential material. Wait 15 to 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/126 "2015-08-02T18:42:48Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/127 "2015-08-02T20:22:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yeah, Trump benefitted by his education, his drive, his intelligence, his interest in the business, his father’s experience and connections. So what? He took the ball and ran with it and achieved success undreamed of by his father. And he did it twice. His father seems like he was a savvy businessman. I’m sure he could have dreamed bigger than a 7% annual rate of return. Donald took the ball and walked with it. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/128 "2015-08-02T20:54:26Z")
Sigh. You really need to stop with the 7% return nonsense. Trump didn’t start with $200 million. He didn’t start by managing his father’s vast apartment complexes. And he hasn’t been successful in getting banks and investors to invest in his many projects over the years because he didn’t know what he was doing. There are always people who like to think outstanding people are overrated. These are the kind of people who think Ringo Starr’s not a very good drummer, that Arnold Schwarzenegger only won bodybuilding contests because he used steroids, and, more recently that Ronda Rousey’s only kicking everyone’s butt in MMA because she hasn’t faced any real competition. Go ahead and wallow in your ignorance and your false beliefs if it makes you feel better, as it obviously does. But nobody who knows anything about the real world is going to take you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/129 "2015-08-03T00:15:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Sigh. > > You really need to stop with the 7% return nonsense. Trump didn’t start with $200 million. He didn’t start by managing his father’s vast apartment complexes. And he hasn’t been successful in getting banks and investors to invest in his many projects over the years because he didn’t know what he was doing. > > There are always people who like to think outstanding people are overrated. These are the kind of people who think Ringo Starr’s not a very good drummer, that Arnold Schwarzenegger only won bodybuilding contests because he used steroids, and, more recently that Ronda Rousey’s only kicking everyone’s butt in MMA because she hasn’t faced any real competition. > > Go ahead and wallow in your ignorance and your false beliefs if it makes you feel better, as it obviously does. But nobody who knows anything about the real world is going to take you seriously. I agree, and I want to hear more about Trump’s exceptional and outstanding investigation into Obama’s birth, in which he claims he found “interesting things” in Hawaii. I definitely want to know more about these interesting things the exceptional and classy Trump found about Obama’s birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/130 "2015-08-03T01:41:18Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Sigh. > There are always people who like to think outstanding people are overrated. These are the kind of people who think Ringo Starr’s not a very good drummer, that Arnold Schwarzenegger only won bodybuilding contests because he used steroids, and, more recently that Ronda Rousey’s only kicking everyone’s butt in MMA because she hasn’t faced any real competition. You misunderstand me. I think Trump is every bit as good a businessman as he is a women’s MMA fighter, drummer or professional bodybuilder. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/131 "2015-08-03T01:53:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Go ahead and wallow in your ignorance and your false beliefs if it makes you feel better, as it obviously does. But nobody who knows anything about the real world is going to take you seriously. I’m just gonna post that. Because that’s probably… I’m not sure what it is. Ontopic: Trump is a middling talent, and you’ve bought into his self-promotion. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/132 "2015-08-03T02:47:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Donald Trump’s money worth is (depending on the source) 20 to 100 times that of his father. > > Paris Hiton’s (if it’s $100M), is 1/3rd of her father. > > Quite a difference, wouldn’t you say? > > You can dislike Donald Trump, you may think him an idiot, and you can make fun of his hair. But you cannot deny that whatever money he was given by his father, he grew it at least 20-30 if not 100+ times. If you think you can do better, please present your achievement in that area. I bought my first condo in 1998 using the entire $3000 I had to my name (ah, the days of free money). I sold it in 2001 and pocketed $72,000. I wasn’t rich then, and I am not rich now. But apparently I am as good as Trump, at least by your reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/133 "2015-08-03T12:48:14Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > I bought my first condo in 1998 using the entire $3000 I had to my name (ah, the days of free money). I sold it in 2001 and pocketed $72,000. I wasn’t rich then, and I am not rich now. But apparently I am as good as Trump, at least by your reasoning. Better. You used your own money to finance your first deal, not your dad’s money. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/134 "2015-08-03T15:00:51Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Does anyone else always read the thread title in the alien’s voice from _Predator_ when he’s dying and looking up at Arnold? The title mostly reminds me about the debate in _Stand By Me_ about what Goofy is. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/135 "2015-08-03T16:23:00Z")
So he was born rich and got richer. So what? Running a business has nothing to do with running a government. I don’t care if he makes Bill Gates look like a piker, he’s a racist bully who belongs nowhere near any branch of government. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/136 "2015-08-08T14:39:13Z")
I don’t understand why he’s in the public eye. Plenty of rich people, most don’t want to make a complete arse of themselves. Why would the media be interested anyway. It like Paris Hilton in a suit. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/137 "2015-08-08T17:49:00Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I don’t understand why he’s in the public eye. > > Plenty of rich people, most don’t want to make a complete arse of themselves. Why would the media be interested anyway. > > It like Paris Hilton in a suit. Paris Hilton is far classier. And has better hair. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/138 "2015-08-08T18:29:49Z")
Yeah, even if he’s fabulously wealthy or a good businessman that by itself does not make him deserving of either admiration or censure. You could run either of the Koch Brothers or Warren Buffet or [insert billionaire here] and get someone who has made and moved billions and yet whose main character trait in the eyes of millions is not obnoxiousness. Hell, Ross Perot was an out-and-open wackadoodle and he was more tolerable in polite company. And fer cryin’ out loud, Mitt Romney was almost the book example of a Gentleman Capitalist and kept getting hit for being “out of touch”… so let’s give the people what the people want, I suppse… What I see happening is that there has been some sort of popular culture phenomenon in the recent past, in which a large slice of society has grown to see as a great positive asset the stance of _being “out of fucks to give”_. Trump, ostensibly free of having to please anyone - not the Kochs, not Addleson, not the Heritage Foundation or the Cato Institute, not the Christian Coalition or whatever it’s called these days, and certainly not Fox News - unless _HE feels it’s worth it_ to please them, gives voice to that phenomenon. He is in effect a political _antihero_, in it to mortify both the starched-shirt Moneyed Establishment, _ **and** _ the Intelligentsia of BOTH the right and left. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/139 "2015-08-08T19:01:25Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Not bad, really. But I’m going to go out on a limb and say that she is not currently Presidential material. > [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Wait 15 to 20 years. > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It like Paris Hilton in a suit. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Paris Hilton is far classier. And has better hair. [Actually, she showed us 7 years ago that she’s ready to take up the challenge, and she looks fantastic in that suit. Plus, as she reminds us, she’s hot.](http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/64ad536a6d/paris-hilton-responds-to-mccain-ad-from-paris-hilton-adam-ghost-panther-mckay-and-chris-henchy) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581/140 "2015-08-09T06:10:04Z")
It usually takes a lot to surprise me, but I’m honestly surprised by Trump’s showing in the polls. Always, I have held the Republican Party in extreme contempt, but I thought your average man-in-the-street Republican was still a decent sort for the most part. Now I’m not so sure. How is Trump’s juvenile antics not outraging more of the rank and file? I figure these shenanigans would be harmful to the Republicans’ image and scare away fence-sitters and independents. Are they? Have there been any polls on how this segment views Trump? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-trump/726581.md?page=8)