# What the hell is wrong with things in this country? Yet another school massacre! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2005, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688 "2005-03-22T05:41:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/1 "2005-03-22T05:41:11Z")
[Words fail me](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/21/school.shooting/index.html) What the hell is going on in this country? Why have schools become a place for frustrated children to go on killing sprees? What the fuck is going on? Is this a copycat effect after Columbine? Are there just more crazy kids than there used to be? What the hell is going on? ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/2 "2005-03-22T05:50:54Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain Why have schools become a place for frustrated children to go on killing sprees? [/QUOTE] They haven’t. A select few have. There is a difference. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/3 "2005-03-22T05:51:38Z")
From the report: > [@](#): > > Apparently, he walked down the hallway shooting and then he entered a classroom, he shot several students and a teacher, then himself," said Roman Stately, with the Red Lake Fire Department, who arrived at the high school moments after the shootings. > > Authorities discovered about an hour later that the boy had shot and killed his grandmother and grandfather, a veteran of the police force, Stately told KARE-TV. > > Stately said the boy used his grandfather’s police-issued weapon in the school rampage. Pity his granddad hadn’t handed the gun back, or at least locked it up securely. While this option remains so accessible and easy for disturbed children and young adults, then the number of such incidents is likely to rise rather than fall. Whether on reservations, in white suburbs, or in black “ghettos”. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/4 "2005-03-22T05:52:43Z")
> [@Duderdude2](#): > > They haven’t. A select few have. > There is a difference. Have there been any recent stories of children going on killing sprees in non-school locations? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/5 "2005-03-22T05:54:50Z")
It’s been a hell of a long time since I’ve heard of a school shooting in the news. Columbine was like, what, six years ago? I chalk this up as a freakish isolated occurrence and not an indication of some larger trend . ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/6 "2005-03-22T05:56:31Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > From the report: > > Pity his granddad hadn’t handed the gun back, or at least locked it up securely. > > While this option remains so accessible and easy for disturbed children and young adults, then the number of such incidents is likely to rise rather than fall. > > Whether on reservations, in white suburbs, or in black “ghettos”. Interetsingly enough we had this discussion in one of my classes tonight. Why is it that guns and harsh living conditions are often the norm in rough/poor urban centers, but we don’t see things like this happening there? But even with guns being available, why schools? Why don’t we see churches being shot up, or banks, or supermarkets? Can this all be traced back to bullying in schools? If it can’t, what’s the root cause, and what can be done about it? As a teacher, this makes me especially nervous. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/7 "2005-03-22T05:56:45Z")
If a person has it in his or her head to kill a bunch of peers and/or authority figures, school is a very convenient place to do it. That said, I work in the public school system, and generally don’t feel that there’s any inherent culture of fear/violence; my students (drama/music department) are typically supportive of each other and deal with frustrations in non-violent ways. I think that if there is a problem (and I’m not arguing that point), that it has little to do with general school culture in America. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/8 "2005-03-22T05:57:49Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > It’s been a hell of a long time since I’ve heard of a school shooting in the news. Columbine was like, what, six years ago? I chalk this up as a freakish isolated occurrence and not an indication of some larger trend . [A timeline of worldwide school shootings. Many in America](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html) ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/9 "2005-03-22T05:59:25Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Have there been any recent stories of children going on killing sprees in non-school locations? I didn’t say that. I was merely addressing a specific question you asked which was “Why have schools become a place for frustrated children to go on killing sprees?” To answer that question, I don’t think they are, except in a very few amount of cases. I don’t indent to minimize the incident, but it’s hardly an epidemic, let alone the “end of the world” mentality your original post seems to stress. Is it sad? Sure, but you still have higher odds of dying in a car crash, on a plane, or any number of things. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/10 "2005-03-22T05:59:42Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I think that if there is a problem (and I’m not arguing that point), that it has little to do with general school culture in America. That the thing… after all this zero tollerance, bullying-awareness, etc… I think that schools are, if anything, more responsive and aware to such issues. So if it’s not school culture… what is it? If a child decides to go nuts and kill a bunch of folks, why innocent peers? Why peers in specific? If you’ve already decided to go on a bloody rampage, why not go to a supermarket? Lots of people there… ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/11 "2005-03-22T06:04:29Z")
> [@Duderdude2](#): > > I was merely addressing a specific question you asked which was “Why have schools become a place for frustrated children to go on killing sprees?” To answer that question, I don’t think they are, except in a very few amount of cases. And I ask you again, are there any other recent killing sprees outside of schools? Is there a trend towards such killings? Otherwise, it does very much seem to be that if a kid is going on a rampage, it’ll be at school. Thus, schools have become a place for frustrated kids to go on killing sprees. > [@Duderdude2](#): > > I don’t indent to minimize the incident, but it’s hardly an epidemic, Look at the timeline I provided. **Something** is happening, and it’s being played out in our schools. > [@Duderdude2](#): > > let alone the “end of the world” mentality your original post seems to stress. End of the world? Yes, I’m a bit nervous as I’m a teacher, but I’m certainly not getting eschatological on ya. It _does_ however seem to be a problem that almost any kid who snaps is going to do it in school and take out a bunch of innocent people. Why is this happening? > [@Duderdude2](#): > > Is it sad? Sure, but you still have higher odds of dying in a car crash, on a plane, or any number of things. But, again, what are the odd that if a child snaps, it’s going to be in a school? I’ve not heard of any non-school related massacres recently… but I may’ve just missed the news. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/12 "2005-03-22T06:07:18Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Why don’t we see churches being shot up… Uh, the other day? Along with a courthouse? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/13 "2005-03-22T06:10:38Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Uh, the other day? Along with a courthouse? [you are talking about this story?](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/14/national/main679823.shtml) Please allow me to refine my question: “Why don’t we see school kids shooting up churches, etc…” (And showing one or two churches wouldn’t do it, as the timeline I posted shows, this stuff isn’t an isolated incident.) ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/14 "2005-03-22T06:14:07Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > And I ask you again, are there any other recent killing sprees outside of schools? No, and I’ll say again that I didn’t declare there was. Odds are higher that I’ll be hit by a car while walking in a crosswalk than on a sidewalk, but do I let that dampen my day? Nope. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > And I ask you again, are there any other recent killing sprees outside of schools? Maybe not killing sprees, but there sure is a shit-load of smaller scale murders, relatively. However, even so, the amount of school involved in such sprees are still a minority, and I expect it to stay that way. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/15 "2005-03-22T06:18:48Z")
How dare you try and tell this kid that he cannot exercise his second amendment rights. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/16 "2005-03-22T06:19:11Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > [A timeline of worldwide school shootings. Many in America](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html) This list (in which 28 of 38 school shootings - 29 fatal - are recorded as taking place in the USA) might be biased for a number of reasons. For example, some countries might not report such events, and if the list is compiled by Americans, then they might have better access to relevant reports. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/17 "2005-03-22T06:21:17Z")
> [@Duderdude2](#): > > No, and I’ll say again that I didn’t declare there was. Odds are higher that I’ll be hit by a car while walking in a crosswalk than on a sidewalk, but do I let that dampen my day? Nope. Look… this is getting into pure rhetorical sophistry. You took issue with me saying that schools have become a place of kids to go on killing sprees. You have not shown that kids go on killing sprees anywhere else. Why, _exactly_, are you disagreeing with the formulation of my question? I am curious about why kids who snap do so at schools. Your response seems to be ‘It doesn’t happen all that often’, which is a non sequitor. > [@Duderdude2](#): > > Maybe not killing sprees, but there sure is a shit-load of smaller scale murders, relatively. There is a difference between violence and deliberately trying to gun down as many innocents as possible. > [@Duderdude2](#): > > However, even so, the amount of school involved in such sprees are still a minority, and I expect it to stay that way. What ‘sprees’? The only child-orchestrated massacres I’m aware of are happening at schools. Do you have data which contradicts this? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/18 "2005-03-22T06:23:21Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > This list (in which 28 of 38 school shootings - 29 fatal - are recorded as taking place in the USA) might be biased for a number of reasons. For example, some countries might not report such events, and if the list is compiled by Americans, then they might have better access to relevant reports. My apologies, my point wasn’t that we have more here than any other country, that was simply the first handy cite I stumbled upon. Feel free to ignore the other nations. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/19 "2005-03-22T06:25:56Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > How dare you try and tell this kid that he cannot exercise his second amendment rights. Is this a whoosh, or are you honestly trying to make a case for a second amendment issue? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688/20 "2005-03-22T06:28:48Z")
While I’m at it, here’s a rough summary by [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/schools/) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-things-in-this-country-yet-another-school-massacre/295688.md?page=2)